Trade Targets, Part Deux

[AntwanBoldin]

yup

But they want KHRIS HIMPHRIES 1$2M !

FERNANDO MEDINA/NBAE/GETTY IMAGES
In other words: Smith's cap hold could stand in the way of Atlanta being as big a player as it'd like to be. So dump him, right? Perhaps. But Smith and Howard, an Atlanta-area native, are famously tight, and the Hawks have amassed a pile of local players — Williams, Anthony Morrow — rival executives see as a clear attempt to lure Howard. That plan goes awry without Smith, even if it also requires the Hawks to trim salary somehow. By the same token, Atlanta has worked hard to carve out potential cap room, and they might not be willing to flip Smith for any player carrying a big salary beyond this season.

So maybe the big surprise of this deadline is Atlanta deals Al Horford for a major upside piece on rookie salary and an expiring?

Not as far fetched as it sounds?

• A quirk in Smith's contract status/ego. This is Smith's ninth season. Players who hit free agency after their 10th season become eligible for the highest possible max contract, one that can soak up 35 percent of the salary cap — up from 30 percent for players at Smith's current experience level. Depending on Smith's sense of his market value, there might be some incentive for him to sign a one-year deal, and then hit free agency again right away. The difference could be quite large. A straight five-year max deal with Atlanta signed this summer would pay Smith about $98 million. A one-year/four-year max in the above scenario would pay about $105 million.

So let me get this right...

Smith is going to risk $98 million dollars minus whatever the first year of his max deal is for an extra $7 million over the course of 5 years?

Wake me up when this writer takes his meds.

Also, real max deals aren't really 30 or 35% or whatever percent they are supposed to get in relation to their years of service, it's actually less based on a semi-complicated formula derived off a different percentage of the BRI unless their max of 105% of their previous year's salary would be greater than that amount.[/quote]



Yea I remembered it being upwards of $20M.

[vincecarter4pres]

Josh Smith makes us the 2nd best team in the East.

Lopez and Smith would instantly make our defense formidable. Smith's abilty to roam defensively as a shotblocking center fielder would be the perfect compliment to Lopez.

We need this trade to get done and unlike previous years with Denver and Orlando there isnt a team that Im worried about fudging it up at the last minute.

Hump+Brooks+Bogs+2013 1st rounder

Get it done BK

Of note, legit steam is building that Bogdanovic is a MAJOR trade chip in the making. He's considered one of the straight top prospects included, especially of those who were already drafted and/or over the age of 20.

His defense is said to be a real concern, but he's looking to potentially be a straight up star in the NBA on offense, like Peja type level, not necessarily talking in style though.

[NyCeEvO]

Everyone knows that an LAL-BKN two way deal is very simple to complete.

LAL could decide on Wednesday that they're dealing and they can call and boom, it's done.

Now with MIN in play, it gets a bit tougher, because MIN would need to ready to part with Love immediately.

I find a deal where we get both Josh and D12 to be way more unlikely because I think the Lakers have way too much pride to sit there and let another team to clearly get the best end of the deal.

[CalamityX12]

I would luv to have a Peja in Brooklyn... don't trade him!!!!!!!!!!

[enetric]

Why are we existing in this all or nothing state? Seemingly a legit big is available for a player who doesn't play and an unnamed pick of little consequence.

Get the guy and let's beat the Knicks in the playoffs. Then we'll S&T hickson later if we have to.

Because we don't want to just beat the Knicks and be a perennial playoff team that doesn't actually have a shot at winning.

We don't want to the Hawks and Sixers of the last few years.

You should either be tanking to get a high lotto pick or making serious plans to become a contender. If we're not doing that, we're not really interested in winning.

I'm a fan and I want to see us WIN and win big!

If I know that we'll be a 2nd round out for 5-6 years, I'd say blow it up and tank to draft the next superstar so that in 5-6 years, we'll have our own super-stud on a low rookie contract who could very well attract other great players to him.

Lets be honest. At the moment that is exactly what we are and that is what anyone honest with themselves knew we would be the second we dealt for JJ and Crash. A more expensive version of those teams.

And at the time remember how many fans posted here how happy they were to see us commit to these guys and tell us you dont know that we wont be a contender!

So many fans root for a move any move without seeing the big picture. Its why for a decade after Ewing the Zeke like moves still had the Knicks selling all their tickets every night. There are more fans who will pay for the pipe dream than there are guys like us willing to gut it out for a champion. That is why coming to Brooklyn with a youth movement was never going to happen.

There is a greater likelihood that we will look back on this era and see we were a middle of the pack playoffs team then we land the one big miracle piece. Having said that...I will still root for doing nothing over doing an obvious wrong thing to keep hope alive that we could push through.

Part of the problem is...even if we become the absolute clear #2 team in the conference....Miami is a beast. Beating them will be hard task regardless of who we get. Its a superstars game and they are loaded.

[vincecarter4pres]

So anyone else want to weigh in on LA holding tight on Dwight at the trade deadline?

I still think there is room for them to change their minds.

Right now it's all very standoffish.

I don't believe Mitch at all right now that it's concrete they won't deal him.

He basically said the same this offseason talking about they wouldn't deal for Dwight without a concrete commitment from him and here we are watching Dwightmare v2.2 less than a week from the deadline.

I can see it happening to be completely honest. They're still in the denial stage. The Lakers ownership and front office is just arrogant and delusional enough, even cut off their nose to spite their face enough to completely hold onto him as an in general though.

But as much as the Lakers have always dictated things on their terms and mainly only their terms, they aren't really dumb and Mitch is one of the most underrated and underhanded GM's in the NBA.

We've seen a similar situation before. Kobe's "Me or Shaqtin' the Fool" act of 04.

So are we really at a me or Kobe stage?

Methinks yes.

And Kobe has a No Trade Clause.

And Kobe is a lifer and one of the probably top 5 Lakers of all time. The 3rd or 4th best Laker of all time and at worst the 5th most important Laker of all time.

So if that's Dwight's stance he doesn't have the pull to be the one to stay and quite honestly he likely wouldn't have it any other way.

Trade me.

They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I don't know their thinking on Brook or Dwight, but if the Nets ownership still wants to make the deal, I'm starting to really think Dwight is going to be here at the deadline next week.

Right now the Lakers truthfully might not even be in denial. They're just in a holding pattern and showing a mediocre but necessary poker face.

"We have a flush draw with a pair in a 3 way pot, but we know we're up against a flopped set and the 3rd guy in the hand might have the nut flush draw with 2 overs and he has us both covered."

It's going to be a lot of interesting but meaningless and simultaneously meaningful tidbits coming out of this weekend and the first few days of the week, but Wednesday is when we'll probably know the end game.

Thank you my brother. That is exactly to a tee what I said a couple of weeks back when Kupchack said not trading Dwight.

It was the smart thing to do. He has limited the added media circus. He showed what you do when you are a smart GM and avoid what Orlando went through. Then you either deal him or you dont. Doenst matter what you said.

IOf you dont make the deal, On Friday you turn to the reporters with the innocent eyes and say, "what? I told you we werent making a deal."

And if you do, you say...after looking at all possibilities we made a deal we believe best positions LA to still make a run at the playoffs this year and for the future. We are pleased to introduce all star Brook Lopez as the latest big man in a long history of great LA big men."


And if that happens...only the die hard LA fans will lose their minds. The ones on the chat boards. Everyone else? They will say, Dwight didnt want to be here. And he was damaged goods. And this is LA. If you want to dog it get your ass out of here you bum. And they will forget him so fast it wont matter. And that is why saying WE WONT make a deal is smart regardless of what you end up doing.

And in a week the chat boards will be buzzing about future cap space, and all the youth they added...picks, prospects etc. And we will be fielding so how good do you think Teletovic can be? Do you think Lopez can be an better rebounder than he is type of questions.

I mean come on. LA isnt Orlando. They know how to handle these things.

As for Kobe I think the harder issue would be his contract. They would deal him...nostalgia be damned if they can do it in a deal they feel makes sense for them. But who has 25mil worth of assets on a playoff team to trade?

Kobe would give up that no trade clause if the trade meant more title contention. No problem!!! But find a deal out there that makes sense for both teams. I couldnt do it.

+1,000,000 especially to the underlined.

[DWILLoftheGODZ]

Josh Smith makes us the 2nd best team in the East.

Lopez and Smith would instantly make our defense formidable. Smith's abilty to roam defensively as a shotblocking center fielder would be the perfect compliment to Lopez.

We need this trade to get done and unlike previous years with Denver and Orlando there isnt a team that Im worried about fudging it up at the last minute.

Hump+Brooks+Bogs+2013 1st rounder

Get it done BK

Atlanta doesn't have to bend over to our laughable offer

Thats all well and good but Any team can beat that offer if they want.

And if smith did say "it's Brooklyn or bust" then he can walk there for the MLE. We're not strengthening an eastern team and getting bank peanuts

No one wants to take the average girl at the bar home at 2:00am but someone always does.

There is no market for Smith. No one has offered more then the Nets have. It sucks for the Hawks but it is what it is. They arent going to let him just walk for nothing.

[AntwanBoldin]

And then when Lebron and kyrie hook up everyone is still ****

[NyCeEvO]

Why are we existing in this all or nothing state? Seemingly a legit big is available for a player who doesn't play and an unnamed pick of little consequence.

Get the guy and let's beat the Knicks in the playoffs. Then we'll S&T hickson later if we have to.

Because we don't want to just beat the Knicks and be a perennial playoff team that doesn't actually have a shot at winning.

We don't want to the Hawks and Sixers of the last few years.

You should either be tanking to get a high lotto pick or making serious plans to become a contender. If we're not doing that, we're not really interested in winning.

I'm a fan and I want to see us WIN and win big!

If I know that we'll be a 2nd round out for 5-6 years, I'd say blow it up and tank to draft the next superstar so that in 5-6 years, we'll have our own super-stud on a low rookie contract who could very well attract other great players to him.

Although you also have to look at it like this...

Are you a 2nd round exit team for the next few years or so that is one big move away from moving into contention at any given time?

If so that isn't such a bad place to be as long as you always have 3 1st round picks, some staggering expiring contracts, B rate prospects and high level Euro stashes to make moves.

I wouldn't simply blow this team up as is.

But that is also the reason I also wouldn't just make moves to make it, trying to force another semi-star onto the roster while possibly minimizing his role to where he wouldn't be happy, while signing him to a deal that limits his reflip value if things don't work.

That isn't to say I wouldn't take a gamble on a player like Smith absolute, just that I would have to be very sure the reward is high enough that the risk is at least mainly justified.

That's why I specified 5-6 years and not a few years.

I'm not saying 2 years into making the playoffs, if you're not contending blow it up.

I'm saying if you know that you can't make big moves for that long (which we could be at that stage pretty soon) then you blow it up.

I think the Hawks waited a year too long. It was obvious they were going nowhere and with JJ's deal royalling screwing up their cap, they' would've been locked down through 2015.

Think about that....

If the Hawks didn't trade JJ, there's a very strong chance that they wouldn't be able to effectively blow it up or really effectively go all out in FA until JJ's deal is done.

If you're like us and you're on the verge of being a team who has no assets for 4 years, you see how you do in your first year. If you don't think you can grow or the players can get better individually, you know you're screwed.

But it all depends on whether you have any assets at all.

[AntwanBoldin]

Josh Smith makes us the 2nd best team in the East.

Lopez and Smith would instantly make our defense formidable. Smith's abilty to roam defensively as a shotblocking center fielder would be the perfect compliment to Lopez.

We need this trade to get done and unlike previous years with Denver and Orlando there isnt a team that Im worried about fudging it up at the last minute.

Hump+Brooks+Bogs+2013 1st rounder

Get it done BK

Atlanta doesn't have to bend over to our laughable offer

Thats all well and good but Any team can beat that offer if they want.

And if smith did say "it's Brooklyn or bust" then he can walk there for the MLE. We're not strengthening an eastern team and getting bank peanuts

No one wants to take the average girl at the bar home at 2:00am but someone always does.

There is no market for Smith. No one has offered more then the Nets have. It sucks for the Hawks but it is what it is. They arent going to let him just walk for nothing.

You're Danny Ferry, you're really going to ownership with $12M of no talent and 3 no-names as the best you can do here?

[enetric]

YAWN.

Hump isnt a bad contract, he is an expiring contract for next year which has as much value,if not more value, then a 1st round pick.

Plus Hump can fill a short term need of theirs in the meantime. You act like they arent going to have alot of cap space even if they take Hump.

Smith doesnt have to say he wants the Nets and Nets only. He said he wants a max contract and it scared off pretty much everyone else except the Nets. That lowers his trade value and handicaps Atlanta in negotiations.

You cant compare this to the Dwightmare because teams were willing to roll the dice on Dwight.

Sorry man you dont seem to get it and I dont know how else we can help you here if you dont understand how it all works. An expiring contract for next year isnt an expiring contract. That's like saying she only had sex once...she is a virgin minus one. Doesnt work that way.


Hump's contract because it has another year is NOT what Ferry wants. His cap space is absolutely more valuable. We might get the guy...but the asset side will go up...picks, more assets beyond Marshon and for sure Ferry will still prefer a 3rd team take Hump and he get someone expiring.

[DWILLoftheGODZ]

You're Danny Ferry, you're really going to ownership with $12M of no talent and 3 no-names as the best you can do here?

Here we go. Hump has no talent now? SMH

Brooks is a desired piece in the NBA. Scorers usually get overpaid. Brooks will make 1.2 mil next year. That's incredible value.

Bogdanovic is a great flyer pick.

Plus they get a 1st rounder.

These are basketball professionals. They know about more players then a bunch of guys blogging on RealGM.

The thing Danny Ferry definitely doesnt want to do is tell ownership he got bubkiss for their best player who just signed elswhere. That gets GMs fired.

[enetric]

No one wants to take the average girl at the bar home at 2:00am but someone always does.

There is no market for Smith. No one has offered more then the Nets have. It sucks for the Hawks but it is what it is. They arent going to let him just walk for nothing.

I am big proponent of the something is better than nothing argument. I have used it many times. But you are failing to apply the motivation by the Hawks here in terms of what they accomplish as their "something" and not understanding that there are times where doing noting at the deadline is MORE than the something you are being offered. Humps contract isnt a something its a negative. You dont get that part of this and its why you are not seeing it. Cant help you there if you dont want to understand that he isnt an asset right now. He will be next year. Pure cap space now beats trading an expiring for an added year of high paid stink.

See last summer when proud Magic fans said...rather let Howard leave than take the Nets crap offer I laughed and used the better than nothing argument. And of course Lopez isnt garbage. Orlando would have an all star center right now. Would letting him walk have been better? No.

But in the Hawks case it could be. Because they can deal for better players with their cap space if they cant sign someone. They can always sign other expirings. So this comes down to eliminating your options for Marshon Brooks. That is simply a bad deal.

[vincecarter4pres]

That's why I specified 5-6 years and not a few years.

I'm not saying 2 years into making the playoffs, if you're not contending blow it up.

I'm saying if you know that you can't make big moves for that long (which we could be at that stage pretty soon) then you blow it up.

I think the Hawks waited a year too long. It was obvious they were going nowhere and with JJ's deal royalling screwing up their cap, they' would've been locked down through 2015.

Think about that....

If the Hawks didn't trade JJ, there's a very strong chance that they wouldn't be able to effectively blow it up or really effectively go all out in FA until JJ's deal is done.

If you're like us and you're on the verge of being a team who has no assets for 4 years, you see how you do in your first year. If you don't think you can grow or the players can get better individually, you know you're screwed.

But it all depends on whether you have any assets at all.

This is all well and good, but what E just said is what a number of us including the 3 of us discussed this offseason and even at the deadline last year when Dwight picked up his ETO.

A rebuild this soon into Brooklyn isn't logical or realistic in the least.

Teams are built for the casual fan, not the diehards such as ourselves.

I know you may be speaking more in hypotheticals or as an in general, but the point still stands.

If that was the case we would have been somewhere in stage 3 of 4 if not stage 4 of a slow youth rebuild as we speak instead of talking about blowing up a Brooklyn team in year 2 or 3 just because we aren't real contenders or contenders even in the least bit.

This is about building a fan base, a buzz, a marketable product with longevity. A rebuild is out of the question until 2016 at earliest and that would have to be an uber splashy free agency rebuild.

A youth rebuild is far off. Teams like this, if we do build the franchise up, they almost don't happen at all, just like a Lakers, or Dallas of the last 15 seasons, or the Knix if you're looking at the wrong way to go about it in it's worst possible form, speaking on the decade of the 2000's.

If our ownership's product goals are met, a team like this only youth rebuilds once ever 2 decades and it usually still involves some stroke of luck, slash ripoff draft maneuver like Kobe, Dirk or Nash in combination with a huge trade or free agent signing.

Even if they wanted to go half and half, King would have never been hired and they would have went with a guy like Pritchard and wound up sitting here with a lineup like:

Lowry
Harden
Kawhi
Nene
Lopez

Harden would have been the recent huge splashy ship a bunch of high value assets acquisition, Nene the overpriced cap signing, Lowry the medium cost for multiple picks move, Kawhi the late lotto pick and Lopez the homegrown late lotto pick who we somehow held onto.


But they hired King and Avery on bad advice, who were guys who catered to Proky's "I can buy my way to the chip with big names and my money" attitude because he didn't yet know enough of the NBA and was mislead or even lead along by his ego combined with irresponsible eager to make move yes men.

[AntwanBoldin]

You're Danny Ferry, you're really going to ownership with $12M of no talent and 3 no-names as the best you can do here?

Here we go. Hump has no talent now? SMH

Brooks is a desired piece in the NBA. Scorers usually get overpaid. Brooks will make 1.2 mil next year. That's incredible value.

Bogdanovic is a great flyer pick.

Plus they get a 1st rounder.

These are basketball professionals. They know about more players then a bunch of guys blogging on RealGM.

The thing Danny Ferry definitely doesnt want to do is tell ownership he got bubkiss for their best player who just signed elswhere. That gets GMs fired.

You're delusional. There's 28 other teams

[Hello Brooklyn]

Can this Dwightmare just end.

I do not want him in Brooklyn. Just STFU.

The Lakers will never trade him here.

[DWILLoftheGODZ]

No one wants to take the average girl at the bar home at 2:00am but someone always does.

There is no market for Smith. No one has offered more then the Nets have. It sucks for the Hawks but it is what it is. They arent going to let him just walk for nothing.

I am big proponent of the something is better than nothing argument. I have used it many times. But you are failing to apply the motivation by the Hawks here in terms of what they accomplish as their "something" and not understanding that there are times where doing noting at the deadline is MORE than the something you are being offered. Humps contract isnt a something its a negative. You dont get that part of this and its why you are not seeing it. Cant help you there if you dont want to understand that he isnt an asset right now. He will be next year. Pure cap space now beats trading an expiring for an added year of high paid stink.

See last summer when proud Magic fans said...rather let Howard leave than take the Nets crap offer I laughed and used the better than nothing argument. And of course Lopez isnt garbage. Orlando would have an all star center right now. Would letting him walk have been better? No.

But in the Hawks case it could be. Because they can deal for better players with their cap space if they cant sign someone. They can always sign other expirings. So this comes down to eliminating your options for Marshon Brooks. That is simply a bad deal.

Taking on Hump isnt going to effect their cap space this year. They will have enough money to sign a MAX player with Hump. Unless of course you think they can get both Dwight and Paul. Even then they can trade Hump to a 3rd team.

They lose nothing by taking Hump. They gain an asset for next year by taking him. They also get Brooks who is a viewed by most people as a very good young player. Bogs is a 1st round value also and they would be getting a 1st rounder. They wont say no to that.

[dwolf15]

They need to move Joe Johnson or dwill. Neither one is a very good player without the ball and they're both ball stoppers, especially Joe. While one does good the other is contributing nothing.

Dwell needs a pick n roll partner that's when he's his best, I'd like the nets to pursue boozer.

Trade Johnson for boozer, both are over payed but the bulls need a backcourt mate for rose and boozer/dwill combo was deadly in Utah. Maybe the bulls throw in the younger Teague he won't get any burn behind rose/Heinrich

[DWILLoftheGODZ]

You're Danny Ferry, you're really going to ownership with $12M of no talent and 3 no-names as the best you can do here?

Here we go. Hump has no talent now? SMH

Brooks is a desired piece in the NBA. Scorers usually get overpaid. Brooks will make 1.2 mil next year. That's incredible value.

Bogdanovic is a great flyer pick.

Plus they get a 1st rounder.

These are basketball professionals. They know about more players then a bunch of guys blogging on RealGM.

The thing Danny Ferry definitely doesnt want to do is tell ownership he got bubkiss for their best player who just signed elswhere. That gets GMs fired.

You're delusional. There's 28 other teams

28 other teams and not one of them is trying to outbid the Nets.

Smith isnt worth a max contract. 28 other teams realize that as do the Nets FO. They know Hump and Brooks isnt fair value. Neither was Petro, Morrow, Farmar, D Steve, J Will for JJ

We are lucky enough to have an owner who practically prints money. Every move he has made has been Steinbrenner-like. Being a Mets fan, I can appreciate the money ramifications of sports. Josh Smith is a luxury only the Nets are willing to pay for.

[bobbyc]

Whats holding up this deal?

BKN Smith
Hump, Brooks, 2 1sts

CHA Hump
Gordon

ATL Gordon, Brooks, 2 1sts
Smith