Miami Heat

[Rapcity_11]

This thread is hilarious.

There's supposedly a million Kobe haters on Real GM and everybody loves Duncan but there's like 5 Spurs fans total on here and a ton of Laker/Kobe fans. Kobe fans definitely win at complaining about haters.

Beardman can't count and it's **** hilarious.

The decades obviously go from 00-01 to 08-09 or 90-91 to 98-99. But the argument is pointless either way.

[boogie-reke]

Omg the last few pages of this thread!!

[Frank Mulely]

See 01 is key to me. I can never get past seeing Shaq absolutely dismantle Duncan AND Robinson. for that alone I can't say Duncan is best of the 00s. its Kobe to me.

so Shaq dominated Duncan AND Robinson but its Kobe whos better? got it

Shaq fell off too quick. peak Shaq > peak Kobe but Kobe maintained excellence long enough to push past Shaq.

Shaq with Kobes drive/dedication to improve = best ever. but Shaq didnt love it enough.

[G35]

People want to down Kobe for not having more MVP's but you should look at Kobe's competition during the 00's. These are the MVP winners:


Shaq
KG
Duncan
Dirk
Nash
Lebron


Compare that to other decades:

60's

Russell
Wilt
Oscar
Wes Unseld


70's
Kareem
Erving
Walton
Cowens
McAdoo

80's
Moses
Bird
Magic
Jordan

90's
Jordan
Barkley
Malone
Hakeem
DRob

Imo Kobe has had more competition during his tenure than the other greats. Duncan and Shaq are definite top 10 players as is Kobe. 3 players from the 00's are in the top all time. Lebron can argued as a 4th. Then KG, Dirk, and Nash are all arguably top 25 players. This isn't even counting Iverson, Jason Kidd, CP3, and Dwyane Wade.

I agree that Kobe never really separated himself from the pack but you can argue that the bar has been set pretty damn during his career. Would Shaq have any MVP's in the 90's with Jordan around? Well we see he didn't. Does that lessen his standing? Hakeem never won any MVP's until Jordan retired, at least Barkley won while MJ was in his prime so who was better? Would Lebron win any MVP's if he played during the late 90's and 00's going against prime Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe and Dirk?

People want to talk perspective but Kobe never had the opportunity that Lebron has now where there aren't that many dominant players. The only competition that Lebron has is Durant and he's not ready for the showcase showdown......

[boogie-reke]

See 01 is key to me. I can never get past seeing Shaq absolutely dismantle Duncan AND Robinson. for that alone I can't say Duncan is best of the 00s. its Kobe to me.

so Shaq dominated Duncan AND Robinson but its Kobe whos better? got it

Shaq fell off too quick. peak Shaq > peak Kobe but Kobe maintained excellence long enough to push past Shaq.

Shaq with Kobes drive/dedication to improve = best ever. but Shaq didnt love it enough.

Can you not see Duncan win multiple rings as 2nd fiddle to prime Shaq though?

Cause that's basically the difference between the two.

And imo Shaq gets the nod even if he didn't play the entire decade over both Duncan and Kobe.

[WaffleRecord]

This thread is hilarious.

There's supposedly a million Kobe haters on Real GM and everybody loves Duncan but there's like 5 Spurs fans total on here and a ton of Laker/Kobe fans. Kobe fans definitely win at complaining about haters.

Beardman can't count and it's **** hilarious.

The decades obviously go from 00-01 to 08-09 or 90-91 to 98-99. But the argument is pointless either way.

+1

[imchillin]

People want to down Kobe for not having more MVP's but you should look at Kobe's competition during the 00's. These are the MVP winners:


Shaq
KG
Duncan
Dirk
Nash
Lebron


Compare that to other decades:

60's

Russell
Wilt
Oscar
Wes Unseld


70's
Kareem
Erving
Walton
Cowens
McAdoo

80's
Moses
Bird
Magic
Jordan

90's
Jordan
Barkley
Malone
Hakeem
DRob

Imo Kobe has had more competition during his tenure than the other greats. Duncan and Shaq are definite top 10 players as is Kobe. 3 players from the 00's are in the top all time. Lebron can argued as a 4th. Then KG, Dirk, and Nash are all arguably top 25 players. This isn't even counting Iverson, Jason Kidd, CP3, and Dwyane Wade.

I agree that Kobe never really separated himself from the pack but you can argue that the bar has been set pretty damn during his career. Would Shaq have any MVP's in the 90's with Jordan around? Well we see he didn't. Does that lessen his standing? Hakeem never won any MVP's until Jordan retired, at least Barkley won while MJ was in his prime so who was better? Would Lebron win any MVP's if he played during the late 90's and 00's going against prime Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe and Dirk?

People want to talk perspective but Kobe never had the opportunity that Lebron has now where there aren't that many dominant players. The only competition that Lebron has is Durant and he's not ready for the showcase showdown......

its not that Lebron has no competition, hes just THAT much better than everyone. and its scary. Michael was also THAT much better than everyone. This league has tons and tons of talent. Lebron got great really fast, he was good his first game in the league and surprised me. What he has done is amazing and like i've said , i'ver never seen anything like him. I saw Michael again in kobe (somewhat) but Lebron....i guess im with Charles Barkley with this one. Lebron is on some different plain right now. So in my head if Kobe is greatest of our era, mvps should have piled up. He should have been THAT much better than everyone...and as great as he is, i never felt he was that much better than everyone, and thats including lebron as a young buck in cleveland

[themaster07]

I to agree w/ Wade's position. Whether you like him or not, Kobe has all the achievements to give Duncan and/or Shaq for a run for the title of "greatest of our era." Although "greatest of our era" is predominately based on statistical accolades and awards (which Kobe has), I think what gives Kobe my vote is his impact/appeal/introductory on the game/NBA to new fans. Some points I'd like to make out is:

- Over the last 5 or even past decade, he has been #1 vote getter in the all star game. What does this mean? The guy is freaking popular despite being labelled "selfish" and "rapist"
- The ovation Kobe received in the Beijing Olympics. The excitement that he brought to the Redeem Team. The love and popularity he has in China cannot be touched. Even guys like Jeremy Lin and Yao Ming do not have the same follow-ship as that of Kobe.
- He was regarded as the most popular basketball player outside of the United States
- Kobe Bryant is a household name that attracts fans and put fans into seats. He's the only player that I know that gets MVP chants at the opposition's court over the past decade.

Call me stupid for using popularity as a tie breaker/decision maker but I truthfully think a player's ability to introduce/appeal to people and sell a product "Nba" and "basketball" should be consider as part of "greatest of our era".

[TrevorAriza]

This thread is hilarious.

There's supposedly a million Kobe haters on Real GM and everybody loves Duncan but there's like 5 Spurs fans total on here and a ton of Laker/Kobe fans. Kobe fans definitely win at complaining about haters.

Beardman can't count and it's **** hilarious.

The decades obviously go from 00-01 to 08-09 or 90-91 to 98-99. But the argument is pointless either way.

And you can?

[TheGoodDoctor]

Obvious Wade rather play with Kobe than Lebron.

[GAME TIME]

First MJ, Wade , who is next? Russell, Magic and Bird going to come out and say this, but realgm haters will think they are wrong

[imchillin]

I to agree w/ Wade's position. Whether you like him or not, Kobe has all the achievements to give Duncan and/or Shaq for a run for the title of "greatest of our era." Although "greatest of our era" is predominately based on statistical accolades and awards (which Kobe has), I think what gives Kobe my vote is his impact/appeal/introductory on the game/NBA to new fans. Some points I'd like to make out is:

- Over the last 5 or even past decade, he has been #1 vote getter in the all star game. What does this mean? The guy is freaking popular despite being labelled "selfish" and "rapist"
- The ovation Kobe received in the Beijing Olympics. The excitement that he brought to the Redeem Team. The love and popularity he has in China cannot be touched. Even guys like Jeremy Lin and Yao Ming do not have the same follow-ship as that of Kobe.
- He was regarded as the most popular basketball player outside of the United States
- Kobe Bryant is a household name that attracts fans and put fans into seats. He's the only player that I know that gets MVP chants at the opposition's court over the past decade.

Call me stupid for using popularity as a tie breaker/decision maker but I truthfully think a player's ability to introduce/appeal to people and sell a product "Nba" and "basketball" should be consider as part of "greatest of our era".

at the end of the day, people like winners and he happens to play for a storied franchise with a ton of bandwagon fans, so the popularity thing is whatever . Its the lakers that drive that machine pretty much. And i dont even get the point of mentioning hes popular in china like who cares. I dont know i just dont see the point of that argument. Hes been in the league since 1996, they know him better than any of these young guys. AI was popular in china too, i just dont get this argument

[imchillin]

I to agree w/ Wade's position. Whether you like him or not, Kobe has all the achievements to give Duncan and/or Shaq for a run for the title of "greatest of our era." Although "greatest of our era" is predominately based on statistical accolades and awards (which Kobe has), I think what gives Kobe my vote is his impact/appeal/introductory on the game/NBA to new fans. Some points I'd like to make out is:

- Over the last 5 or even past decade, he has been #1 vote getter in the all star game. What does this mean? The guy is freaking popular despite being labelled "selfish" and "rapist"
- The ovation Kobe received in the Beijing Olympics. The excitement that he brought to the Redeem Team. The love and popularity he has in China cannot be touched. Even guys like Jeremy Lin and Yao Ming do not have the same follow-ship as that of Kobe.
- He was regarded as the most popular basketball player outside of the United States
- Kobe Bryant is a household name that attracts fans and put fans into seats. He's the only player that I know that gets MVP chants at the opposition's court over the past decade.

Call me stupid for using popularity as a tie breaker/decision maker but I truthfully think a player's ability to introduce/appeal to people and sell a product "Nba" and "basketball" should be consider as part of "greatest of our era".

at the end of the day, people like winners and he happens to play for a storied franchise with a ton of bandwagon fans, so the popularity thing is whatever . Its the lakers that drive that machine pretty much. And i dont even get the point of mentioning hes popular in china like who cares. I dont know i just dont see the point of that argument. Hes been in the league since 1996, they know him better than any of these young guys. AI was popular in china too, i just dont get this argument

[Ninjek]

I think that's more of a testament to how great prime Shaq was.

yup....and point is I can't say youre best of your era if you got worked like that.

Honestly that just doesn't seem fair, Duncan squared off against arguably the most dominant player ever(in his prime), how can you give kobe the nod when he never even guarded a player like that? That's not a slight at him, but he never had to guard a dominating force like shaq...

[TrevorAriza]

I think that's more of a testament to how great prime Shaq was.

yup....and point is I can't say youre best of your era if you got worked like that.

Honestly that just doesn't seem fair, Duncan squared off against arguably the most dominant player ever(in his prime), how can you give kobe the nod when he never even guarded a player like that? That's not a slight at him, but he never had to guard a dominating force like shaq...

If you actually watched those series, Duncan rarely ever guarded shaq

[LakerLegend]

Feb. 18, 2007


"Mastering the game interests me," said Wade. "I look at a guy like Kobe Bryant and, really, Kobe has mastered the game. He has every move in the book, he knows what spot to get to and when to raise up and when you want to master the game to the point where it's flawless.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/10005791

Jun 17, 2009

“I believe that Kobe Bryant is still the best player in the game, his experience and his overall talent. It’s not taking away from LeBron, it’s not taking away from Carmelo, it’s not taking away from myself,” Wade told ESPN Radio Chicago. “Kobe has been in the game longer than the rest of us, he’s older than us, he’s smart with the game. He’s the better player.”

http://dimemag.com/2009/06/dwyane-wade- ... -the-game/

Wades always shown respect off the court if not necessarily on it.

[Optms]

Yup. Duncan wasn't guarding prime Shaq. Robinson and Rasho were assigned to him from the start. Go back and watch the game tapes if you don't believe it.

I hate when people say Duncan guarded Shaq, at least for any substantial amount of time. Pop knew better than to do that.

[RayBan-Sematra]

If you actually watched those series, Duncan rarely ever guarded shaq

The bolded really isn't true even though Robinson was certainly the primary defender on Shaq significantly more often then Duncan was.

Plus its kind of irrelevant who the primary defender was since they almost always double teamed Shaq when he had the ball.

[Mourning_Would]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhpVE5Yfvhc[/youtube]

Duncan/LeBron/Wade getting shamed in the olympics. Gotta bring the best to win.

Wade actually had a better game... And Wade/Lebron were the best during the whole olympics.. Backfire

[TheChosen618]

Duncan did not guard Shaq very often, but Shaq did guard Duncan often especially in the 4th quarter. If I recall correctly, Shaq did a really good job on Duncan in the 2002 series.

I think a lot of people speculated that the only reason why Duncan didn't want to be considered a Center is because he didn't want to guard Shaq.