Trade Targets, Part Deux

[enetric]

Ken Berger reporting Lakers and C's having preliminary discussions on a Rondo for Howard swap...

I call BS on that. Would love to find out its true though. If Kupchack really shopped Howard anywhere...then he is looking at options. And we know Howard isnt going anywhere he doesnt want to go. Puts us right back in the driver seat as that the asset compensation for Dwight will be huge and no one pays the price without a thumbs up from Dwight.

[SpeedyG]

Ken Berger reporting Lakers and C's having preliminary discussions on a Rondo for Howard swap...

I call BS on that. Would love to find out its true though. If Kupchack really shopped Howard anywhere...then he is looking at options. And we know Howard isnt going anywhere he doesnt want to go. Puts us right back in the driver seat as that the asset compensation for Dwight will be huge and no one pays the price without a thumbs up from Dwight.

Damn E, you're starting to sound like all of those Lakers fans and Knicks fans a couple of years ago. The Howard ship has sailed, mate. We'll never be in the driver's seat like we have been.

Dwight can say "Brooklyn" all he wants, but no GM in their right mind would buy the threat that Dwight's going to sign in Brooklyn for the exception.

If you're a team like Dallas, Houston, or Atlanta, and you have the cap room for him...you can laugh at his threat of "Brooklyn". Because quite simply, we're NOT a threat. We're nothing more than a small leverage.Now the Celtics? OK, yeah. I agree. They want that guarantee.

But a team with cap space? In big markets like Dallas and Houston?

The threat of Brooklyn doesn't even faze you.

[PetroNet]

There is no market for Smith. No one has offered more then the Nets have. It sucks for the Hawks but it is what it is. They arent going to let him just walk for nothing.

Why not?

if my choices are:

a) let him expire creating a ton of cap room

or

b) trade for a bench player that adds 12 million in salary and a 25 year old "prospect" with no upside

then i let smith walk for nothing 100 times out of 100

[PetroNet]

I truly think we are

To be clear...I think there is a chance. But we will give up more than Marshon and Hump or a third team will be involved or both. If the best offer Ferry gets is Marshon and to PAY Hump himself for another year...he doesnt make a deal.

I think either Cleveland and/or Charlotte will be the 3rd/4th teams. But if not I think Atlanta would take Hump. You mention above what their motivation would be. They are rebuilding so they would want young assets on rookie contracts and draft picks. That's what they would be getting from us.

hump isnt a young asset on a rookie contract. he is due to be paid 12 million dollars.

and can we stop calling brooks a prospect? he is 25. we arent talking paul george here

[bobbyc]

There is no market for Smith. No one has offered more then the Nets have. It sucks for the Hawks but it is what it is. They arent going to let him just walk for nothing.

Why not?

if my choices are:

a) let him expire creating a ton of cap room

or

b) trade for a bench player that adds 12 million in salary and a 25 year old "prospect" with no upside

then i let smith walk for nothing 100 times out of 100

They already have a ton of cap space.

Outside of that they don't have much this offseason. This offseason is going to be a rebuilding one for them. They only have Horford, L. Williams, Jenkins under contract. teague and ivan johnson are RFA.

They are going to need picks to fill their roster out cheaply next year. That is the main focus of the trade.

[PetroNet]

There is no market for Smith. No one has offered more then the Nets have. It sucks for the Hawks but it is what it is. They arent going to let him just walk for nothing.

Why not?

if my choices are:

a) let him expire creating a ton of cap room

or

b) trade for a bench player that adds 12 million in salary and a 25 year old "prospect" with no upside

then i let smith walk for nothing 100 times out of 100

They already have a ton of cap space.

Outside of that they don't have much this offseason. This offseason is going to be a rebuilding one for them. They only have Horford, L. Williams, Jenkins under contract. teague and ivan johnson are RFA.

They are going to need picks to fill their roster out cheaply next year. That is the main focus of the trade.

it doesnt matter if they already have cap space. more cap space is always better then taking on a 12M bench player. if they want draft picks, they can buy them, with the money they ARENT giving to humphries, while still retaining their cap space... which they can use to trade for draft picks like the cavliers did earlier this season.

Humphries is a giant negative to the hawks anyway you shape it up. that deal isnt happening unless a third team takes humphries.

[bobbyc]

it doesnt matter if they already have cap space. more cap space is always better then taking on a 12M bench player. if they want draft picks, they can buy them, with the money they ARENT giving to humphries, while still retaining their cap space... which they can use to trade for draft picks like the cavliers did earlier this season.

Humphries is a giant negative to the hawks anyway you shape it up. that deal isnt happening unless a third team takes humphries.

Humphries will be an expiring contract next year. It sounds like they could swap Hump for Gordon if they want.

Gordon, Brooks, 2 1sts I think is much better than letting him go. They continue to compete this year, get a cheap role player, and 2 1sts.

If all they have is cap space to rebuild their team next year, they will suck. You can not build a good deep team through free agency alone.

[DWILLoftheGODZ]

HERE IT IS


http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=c9vqog5

Nets: J Smith, Rondo, Nash
Celts: Dwight, Watson
Lakers: D Will, Bass
Hawks: A Bradley, M Brooks, F Melo, Hump

Why the Hawks do it?

The Hawks would be getting 3 very good young prospects. Bradley and Brooks compliment each other very well. Brooks has playmaking skills that Bradley doesnt. Bradley is an Elite defender, Brooks isnt. Fab Melo is the defensive big they have longed to pair Horford with.

Why the Lakers do it?

DWill fits what D'Antoni wants to do on offense more then Rondo. Bass is a PnR PF who also fits well in that system

Why the Celts do it?

The Celtics get their big man of the future in Dwight who gives them a chance to compete this year. Watson replaces Rondo at PG.

Why the Nets do it?

Nash is the PG for the rest of this season. He has played with JJ before in Phoenix and he is one of the best PG shooters in the NBA. Rondo would inherit the PG spot when he gets back next year. He might have to slide to SG until Nash retires. Smith is the prized PF the Nets have been longing for. Smith and Rondo drastically improve our defense long term.

[DWILLoftheGODZ]

There is no market for Smith. No one has offered more then the Nets have. It sucks for the Hawks but it is what it is. They arent going to let him just walk for nothing.

Why not?

if my choices are:

a) let him expire creating a ton of cap room

or

b) trade for a bench player that adds 12 million in salary and a 25 year old "prospect" with no upside

then i let smith walk for nothing 100 times out of 100

a) They are going to have a bunch of cap room even if they take back Hump. Too much cap room is a bad thing. In case you forgot.



b) Brooks just turned 24, not 25, He has proven he can score in the NBA. He has a 7'2" wingspan and was among the top athletes in his draft class. Stop with the Brooks is a bum BS. He has a lot of trade value.

[vincecarter4pres]

Brooks is a top athlete?

[PetroNet]

Humphries will be an expiring contract next year.

Awesome... oh, wait, it isnt next year, its this year. oh well back to the drawing board. Humphries could work in a deal for someone like nene or someone like that who has 3+ years on their contract. but not for a guy who is expiring like smith

It sounds like they could swap Hump for Gordon if they want.

Gordan isnt an expiring either, like hump he doesnt have any value until next year, unless its to trade him for someone with a long poor contract. no one is giving up a guy who is expiring for a worse guy with 1 year left on his deal.

Gordon, Brooks, 2 1sts I think is much better than letting him go. They continue to compete this year, get a cheap role player, and 2 1sts.

gordan is a negative. if we can do that same deal and involve a third or fourth team to give an expiring for hump or gordan, maybe i can see it. but no way the hawks take on either of those guys just to land late picks.

If all they have is cap space to rebuild their team next year, they will suck. You can not build a good deep team through free agency alone.

dont rebuilding and sucking go hand and hand? who cares if they suck next year, thats why its called a rebuild. that cap space can be used to get first round picks, they can buy first round picks, they can use their own first round picks.

[DWILLoftheGODZ]

@ PetroNets and all the other people saying Atlanta wont take back Hump

Josh Smith has negative trade value also. No one is going to trade for a guy who can just walk in a couple of months.

Smith is essentially a FA already. He has let it be known that he fully expects a max contract from whatever team signs him. Im sure he wants to go to a team that is capable of competing as well.

Connect the dots. He is all but saying Brooklyn.

[CalamityX12]

Bucks appear interested...in Josh Smith

[PetroNet]

@ PetroNets and all the other people saying Atlanta wont take back Hump

Josh Smith has negative trade value also. No one is going to trade for a guy who can just walk in a couple of months.

Smith is essentially a FA already. He has let it be known that he fully expects a max contract from whatever team signs him. Im sure he wants to go to a team that is capable of competing as well.

Connect the dots. He is all but saying Brooklyn.

unfortunetly for smith, he cant choose his destination until the season ends.

and even if he could, its moot. if he says "nets and only nets" atlanta is still better off letting him walk then they are taking on hump/brooks

[enetric]

Ken Berger reporting Lakers and C's having preliminary discussions on a Rondo for Howard swap...

I call BS on that. Would love to find out its true though. If Kupchack really shopped Howard anywhere...then he is looking at options. And we know Howard isnt going anywhere he doesnt want to go. Puts us right back in the driver seat as that the asset compensation for Dwight will be huge and no one pays the price without a thumbs up from Dwight.

Damn E, you're starting to sound like all of those Lakers fans and Knicks fans a couple of years ago. The Howard ship has sailed, mate. We'll never be in the driver's seat like we have been.

Dwight can say "Brooklyn" all he wants, but no GM in their right mind would buy the threat that Dwight's going to sign in Brooklyn for the exception.

If you're a team like Dallas, Houston, or Atlanta, and you have the cap room for him...you can laugh at his threat of "Brooklyn". Because quite simply, we're NOT a threat. We're nothing more than a small leverage.Now the Celtics? OK, yeah. I agree. They want that guarantee.

But a team with cap space? In big markets like Dallas and Houston?

The threat of Brooklyn doesn't even faze you.

Speedy I have explained this before but I will do it again. You dont need to threaten taking an MLE to say trade me to that team. All you need to be able to do is threaten I am leaving my current team for someone else so trade me now or lose me. And if you trade me, the only team I will give a verbal commit to re-sign with is THIS ONE team.

That's it. So Howard's agent goes to LA and says hey...you dont want do deal him, no problem. But I am not sure my client see's himself here long term. He is thinking strongly about signing with someone else with cap space because this hasnt been a good fit. Yes, he will lose the extra year but...this is not working, its not a good fit. If you want to try an get something for him before the deadline the one and only team he is currently prepared to commit to re-sign with is Bklyn. That's where he wanted to be last year and where he would want to be now if he could sign anywhere. He understand if you do not deal him there he will be looking at other teams to chose from with cap space should he opt to leave LA. But, he has aksed me to inform you that he is leaning that way and he will not commit verbally to anyone about re-signing a new contract other than Bklyn should you find other interested trade partners.


This conversation gives Kupchack reason to panic. Do I trade for a different albeit lesser all star center now...or do I call his bluff? Kupchack says he will call his bluff. But has Dwight made a stand? If he makes the stand...the deal has a strong chance to get done. Why? Because just like Orlando when Dwight was still an expiring prior to opting in...they can yap all they want about dealing him to where they want. Other teams will not give up major assets without strong reassurance to acquire a guy. Had Dwight stuck to his guns last trade deadline he gets traded to us. This is exactly the same thing as last year. EXACTLY.

[enetric]

HERE IT IS


http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=c9vqog5

Nets: J Smith, Rondo, Nash
Celts: Dwight, Watson
Lakers: D Will, Bass
Hawks: A Bradley, M Brooks, F Melo, Hump

Why the Hawks do it?

The Hawks would be getting 3 very good young prospects. Bradley and Brooks compliment each other very well. Brooks has playmaking skills that Bradley doesnt. Bradley is an Elite defender, Brooks isnt. Fab Melo is the defensive big they have longed to pair Horford with.

Why the Lakers do it?

DWill fits what D'Antoni wants to do on offense more then Rondo. Bass is a PnR PF who also fits well in that system

Why the Celts do it?

The Celtics get their big man of the future in Dwight who gives them a chance to compete this year. Watson replaces Rondo at PG.

Why the Nets do it?

Nash is the PG for the rest of this season. He has played with JJ before in Phoenix and he is one of the best PG shooters in the NBA. Rondo would inherit the PG spot when he gets back next year. He might have to slide to SG until Nash retires. Smith is the prized PF the Nets have been longing for. Smith and Rondo drastically improve our defense long term.

The level of awful in the things you have been posting just keeps getting worse. Please stop.

[DWILLoftheGODZ]

@ PetroNets and all the other people saying Atlanta wont take back Hump

Josh Smith has negative trade value also. No one is going to trade for a guy who can just walk in a couple of months.

Smith is essentially a FA already. He has let it be known that he fully expects a max contract from whatever team signs him. Im sure he wants to go to a team that is capable of competing as well.

Connect the dots. He is all but saying Brooklyn.

unfortunetly for smith, he cant choose his destination until the season ends.

and even if he could, its moot. if he says "nets and only nets" atlanta is still better off letting him walk then they are taking on hump/brooks

Good thing you are not the GM. It completely relevant, not moot, that J Smith is going to be a FA. It lowers his trade value.

Saying Hump has no value is like saying they shouldnt take a 1st round pick for 2014 either since it doesnt help them now.

[DWILLoftheGODZ]

HERE IT IS


http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=c9vqog5

Nets: J Smith, Rondo, Nash
Celts: Dwight, Watson
Lakers: D Will, Bass
Hawks: A Bradley, M Brooks, F Melo, Hump

Why the Hawks do it?

The Hawks would be getting 3 very good young prospects. Bradley and Brooks compliment each other very well. Brooks has playmaking skills that Bradley doesnt. Bradley is an Elite defender, Brooks isnt. Fab Melo is the defensive big they have longed to pair Horford with.

Why the Lakers do it?

DWill fits what D'Antoni wants to do on offense more then Rondo. Bass is a PnR PF who also fits well in that system

Why the Celts do it?

The Celtics get their big man of the future in Dwight who gives them a chance to compete this year. Watson replaces Rondo at PG.

Why the Nets do it?

Nash is the PG for the rest of this season. He has played with JJ before in Phoenix and he is one of the best PG shooters in the NBA. Rondo would inherit the PG spot when he gets back next year. He might have to slide to SG until Nash retires. Smith is the prized PF the Nets have been longing for. Smith and Rondo drastically improve our defense long term.

The level of awful in the things you have been posting just keeps getting worse. Please stop.

Obvious troll is obvious. I think you value your own opinion far more then it's worth. I hate to break the news to you buddy but your high horse is a pony.

[SpeedyG]

Speedy I have explained this before but I will do it again. You dont need to threaten taking an MLE to say trade me to that team. All you need to be able to do is threaten I am leaving my current team for someone else so trade me now or lose me. And if you trade me, the only team I will give a verbal commit to re-sign with is THIS ONE team.

That's it. So Howard's agent goes to LA and says hey...you dont want do deal him, no problem. But I am not sure my client see's himself here long term. He is thinking strongly about signing with someone else with cap space because this hasnt been a good fit. Yes, he will lose the extra year but...this is not working, its not a good fit. If you want to try an get something for him before the deadline the one and only team he is currently prepared to commit to re-sign with is Bklyn. That's where he wanted to be last year and where he would want to be now if he could sign anywhere. He understand if you do not deal him there he will be looking at other teams to chose from with cap space should he opt to leave LA. But, he has aksed me to inform you that he is leaning that way and he will not commit verbally to anyone about re-signing a new contract other than Bklyn should you find other interested trade partners.


This conversation gives Kupchack reason to panic. Do I trade for a different albeit lesser all star center now...or do I call his bluff? Kupchack says he will call his bluff. But has Dwight made a stand? If he makes the stand...the deal has a strong chance to get done. Why? Because just like Orlando when Dwight was still an expiring prior to opting in...they can yap all they want about dealing him to where they want. Other teams will not give up major assets without strong reassurance to acquire a guy. Had Dwight stuck to his guns last trade deadline he gets traded to us. This is exactly the same thing as last year. EXACTLY.

But that's EXACTLY my point! You're falling into the same trap that those poor Lakers/Knicks/Mavs fans that kept coming here for years about how "so and so" only wants to play in LA, NY, Dallas.

Yu're only looking at it on why LA would trade him to US.

Why not trade him to Houston or Dallas?

Dwight's stance was SO MUCH more powerful last year because WE, THE TEAM HE WANTS had Cap room. He can threaten ANYONE, whether its NY, LA, Dallas, Houston or whoever...REGARDLESS IF THEY HAD CAP ROOM, that Brooklyn was where he wanted to be.

And because WE HAD CAP ROOM, that bluff is so powerful. Because whatever team trades for him, KNOWS he really can just walk outright and sign with us.

That is no longer the case. So let's say Dallas or Houston trades for him. Dwight tells them "i'm not resigning and I only want Brooklyn".

WHERE IS THE THREAT IN THAT KNOWING THAT ALL BROOKLYN CAN OFFER IS A MEASLY EXCEPTION?!? They laugh in his face, they laugh in his agent's face and tell him "Really? You want Brooklyn? OK, go ahead. Go sign them for the exception".

It's a threat that has lost its power, because unlike last year, WE CANNOT sign him outright. Hell, we can't even Sign and Trade for him!!!!

Now, the thing we have on our side is, if LA does decide they want to trade him...then you look at Dallas, Houston, whoever...and then you look at us being able to offer Lopez? Brook stands to be the most valuable piece they can get. And even if they aren't enamored with him, finding a third team who will take him in exchange for other valuable pieces would not be difficult.

So yeah, there's that.

But if you're LA, you can give him the GLAM. You can give him the LEGACY. You give him HUGE MARKET. And the BIG POCKETS to win, as well as the LARGEST contract he can get.

Do you really think Howard walks away from that?

[SpeedyG]

Saying Hump has no value is like saying they shouldnt take a 1st round pick for 2014 either since it doesnt help them now.

Is that 2014 1st worth the over $12M that Hump is owed? Or do you just rather let Smith walk for nothing?

Think about that from the GM's perspective.

Now...think about that from the OWNER'S perspective.