We might possibly foist Josh Smith to the Spurs?

[tcorbin]

i would hate to get Cousins, not only is he a team cancer, but he is just a bad player, espeically for a center, shooting .440FG.

how ever, i remember an artical stating that Detroit would love to get Cousin, so if the Hawks could get Drummond or Monroe, then i would be okay with that.

[azuresou1]

If you hate Cousins because his poor efficiency you must LOATH Josh who's even less efficient.

No way in hell Detroit would ship us either Drummond or Monroe for Smith, both those guys have far more value.

[Rip2137]

How is Josh less efficient again?

[MaceCase]

How is Josh less efficient again?

You'll just have to educate yourself on a thing called True Shooting Percentage, one of those metrics that have evolved from caveman stats that measure the overall scoring efficiency of a player outside of just raw FG%.
Cousins leads over Josh with a .514TS% vs .495TS%. League average is usually around ~.52TS%

[tcorbin]

How is Josh less efficient again?

You'll just have to educate yourself on a thing called True Shooting Percentage, one of those metrics that have evolved from caveman stats that measure the overall scoring efficiency of a player outside of just raw FG%.
Cousins leads over Josh with a .514TS% vs .495TS%. League average is usually around ~.52TS%

Yeah, and even with your 'advanced numbers' you are still wrong

Josh Smith eFG% .490

DeMarcus Cousins eFG% .450

you are saying so many wrong facts, you are just losing the argument in every way

the average FG% for small forwards in the NBA is .450FG, and Josh is way above that with .460FG and knocking down an incredible above overall league average of .360% from three

the league average for centers is .515FG, and Cousins is averaging a horrible .440FG, and that is pretty pathetic when Cousins and Biyombo have the same FG%

[MaceCase]

How is Josh less efficient again?

You'll just have to educate yourself on a thing called True Shooting Percentage, one of those metrics that have evolved from caveman stats that measure the overall scoring efficiency of a player outside of just raw FG%.
Cousins leads over Josh with a .514TS% vs .495TS%. League average is usually around ~.52TS%

Yeah, and even with your 'advanced numbers' you are still wrong

Josh Smith eFG% .490

DeMarcus Cousins eFG% .450

you are saying so many wrong facts, you are just losing the argument in every way

No, all you proved is that you can't read and or don't know wtf you are talking about. Please, educate me on what eFG% is again and why that is different than the fact I actually mentioned, TS%?

Is eFG% a measure of overall scoring efficiency or just shooting efficiency? Oh what's that? It is shooting efficiency where a 35% 3 point shooter is equivalent to a 50% shooter in raw FG%? Wow I have no idea why that stat would favor someone who has attempted 110 3s over someone who has attempted 11.

the average FG% for small forwards in the NBA is .450FG, and Josh is way above that with .460FG and knocking down an incredible above overall league average of .360% from three

the league average for centers is .515FG, and Cousins is averaging a horrible .440FG, and that is pretty pathetic when Cousins and Biyombo have the same FG%

Ah, so let's move the goal posts and call Josh a SF to account for his lower FG%. Nope, I can't see any manipulation or disingenuousness going on over here when we are all of a sudden comparing a primary frontline player to wings.

How about we include that for a "SF" Josh is assisted on 61% of his baskets to account for his "incredible" FG% whereas Cousins is assisted on only 44%? Does that have an effect on efficiency? You know, with Josh being spoon fed like Biyombo whereas Cousins is creating his own shot like Kobe?

[Rip2137]

Yeah, advanced shooting metrics are freaking stupid. The point is, that Josh hits 46% of the shots he takes, Cousins hits fewer. There you go. End of the discussion.

Also I would think averging more turnovers than Assist would point a little bit more towards being inefficient than Josh.

And, I hate to point it out again, but when your are taking one of the worse teams in the league and comparing one of their players stats to one of better teams in the league, you are just being silly.

[parson]

All y'all are succeeding in doing is proving we need players who don't make us cringe when they take a shot.

[azuresou1]

Anyone who uses FG% in this day and age CHOOSES to be willfully ignorant, and thus can safely be similarly ignored in any real discussion.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 03&y2=2013

DeMarcus Cousins is more efficient, because he can actually hit his FTs.

[azuresou1]

Let's put this another way - who do you feel is more efficient at shooting, Josh, or Kyle Korver? Because they both sit at 46 FG%.

[Rip2137]

Talk about moving the goal post.

Korver takes 70% percent of his shots from 3 and hits 46% of them which is EXTREMELY efficient from that range.

Cousins and Smith both operate inside the three point line mostly, both take around the same amount of shots in the game, and Smith hits those shots at a higher percentage. There is LITERALLY no way to argue other wise. If Josh takes 10 shots and Cousins take ten shots, Josh is hitting more of them than Cousins.

To call literal stats "willfully ignorant" is dumb. I don't have to get cute and call it ignorant. If at no point does Cousins take ACTUAL shots in the game and ACTUALLY hits 50+% of them then he doesn't shoot 50 percent from the field. You don't get point for theoretical percentages. You get points for actual times you put the actual ball through the actual rim.

And again, how does Cousins turning it over more than he gets assist despite having high usage make him more efficient? But I guess that doesn't count because it doesn't factor into whatever stat you have decided to make important. But TRUE FG% is higher so lets ignore EFFECTIVE FG%

ALSO, I think everyone walking the planet knows how are affected by playing for a piece of crap team. Anyone that pretends that numbers translate comparatively from a horrible team to a good team CHOOSES to be willfully ignorant, and thus can safely be similarly ignored in any real discussion.

[azuresou1]

You talk about both players taking 10 shots - you are aware that Cousins scores more per FGA than Josh does, right?

You get points for actual times you put the actual ball through the actual rim. Josh Smith doesn't do that at the FT line, nor does he get to the line often. DeMarcus Cousins does.

[MaceCase]

That's true,

If player A takes 10 shots, hits 5, gets fouled 4 times and makes 2 of those FTs he scored 12 points.

If player B takes 10 shots, hits 4, get's fouled 6 times and makes 5 of those FTs he scored 13 points.


Both players being given 10 shots, Player B came away with more points thus being more efficient despite his lower 40% shooting. This is why even NBA.com is discontinuing caveman stat analysis.

This is what True Shooting is. eFG% accounts for the difference in value of a 3 versus a 2 because, duh, 3 is worth more than 2. So as pointed out earlier, a 35% 3 point shooter would equal a ~50% 2 point shooter over 10 or so possessions but here's the thing......True Shooting also has eFG% as part of it's equation.....while adding Free Throws because after all these are all the ways you score, correct?

So despite Josh getting the bump and extra points for his 3 point shooting to increase his eFG%, once all scoring is accounted for.....he lags behind Cousins. How that wasn't obvious to such ardent basic boxscore watchers, I don't know. You could easily see that Cousins scores 17.3ppg on 14.3FGAs whereas Josh scores 17.4ppg on 15.8FGAs.


I see goal posts also being moved to include assist to turnover ratio now. Okay so how about we use stats that will factor that along with everything else:

PER? 17.8 vs. 20.5

Offensive Win Shares? -0.3 (laughable, this is usually reserved for the Jason Collins of the league) vs. 1.4

Offensive Rating? 96 vs 102 (these are both per 100 possessions).

People can then attempt the "well one plays on a bad team" excuse but here's the thing, doesn't a better team also mean better teammates? Does this not inflate Josh's stats considering that he only creates 39% of his offense as opposed to Cousins who is forced to create 58% of his?

[sdballer]

Analytics discussion aside, sac isn't trading cousins for splitter and 2 mid to late first rounders, especially not with their sale situation