Trey Burke

[Natopher]

Does anybody like this guy? All the mock drafts have him going in the mid teens to even the early 20's and I can't figure out why. He looks like the best point guard in the draft to me. Averages high assists and low turnoevers, shoots great percentages from the field and 3, his FT shooting is solid and he has really good handles.

Can someone explain to me why guys like MCW and Marcus Smart (I haven't seen Marcus Smart play so I'm basing this off stats, so forgive me, I hear he plays great D) are ranked so much higher than him? Burke seems to be able to control games well, find open guys and hit them on the numbers consistently, numbers are good, I just don't understand why a point guard who's A/T ratio is 7.0/1.8 and is solid everywhere else is predicted to go below a tweener MCW (8.2/3.6) and Smart (4.5/3.2).

Burke appears to be better than them in EVERY offensive category to me. Is this a size thing? I know Burke is small, but it still seems ridiculous to me to have him go in the teens. That seems very late to me.

[Brapman]

It's size and athleticism that are his issues. I watch Burke and see that he cannot beat the best college defenders off the dribble (without a pick from his big men), and that he cannot finish amongst the trees in traffic. That inability to beat players 1 on 1 in college is only going to become a lot more problematic in the pros.

To his credit, he's got a very nice tight handle, seems to have nice PG instincts, and he's super competitive - but his issues raise serious concerns about him as an NBA prospect.

[Timmaytime]

It's size and athleticism that are his issues. I watch Burke and see that he cannot beat the best college defenders off the dribble (without a pick from his big men), and that he cannot finish amongst the trees in traffic. That inability to beat players 1 on 1 in college is only going to become a lot more problematic in the pros.

To his credit, he's got a very nice tight handle, seems to have nice PG instincts, and he's super competitive - but his issues raise serious concerns about him as an NBA prospect.

This. Would prefer Smart if we get a choice

[BasedWiseman]

He's DJ Augustin.He gets overrated here because of his local connection.Guys his size without elite athleticism/quickness tend not to do well in the NBA.He's a NBA rotation player at best.This PG class is horrible though.

My PG rankings

1.CJ McCollum (Most underrated player in the draft IMO)
2.Marcus Smart
3.Trey Burke
4.MCW (I don't like this kid at all)

[Goldtop]

I really don't see us drafting a PG. I think whats overlooked in the Calderon trade is the impact on Frank.

imo, this was as much a move for Dumars to get a PG he's coveted, as it was for him as a GM to get his coach the PG that he needs to be successful.

Unless you want to keep changing coaches every year, you have to get them the personel they need to succeed. Franks system succeeds when having a true veteran PG (Kidd, Rondo). Frank didn't choose Knight to be his QB. Knight was drafted before Frank got hired, and was basically forced upon him to be his court general.

You gotta get your coach the pieces they want, or else you might as well not even hire them in the first place.

For years, Joe has just assembled the players he wanted, then forced them on coaches. And when they didn't succeed, he blamed the coach, and went out and got another coach for the same players, rinse and repeat.

I like that he's back to giving his coaches the players [i/]they[/i] want, like he did with LB. So with that said, it doesn't seem logical to me that Dumars would force another rookie PG on Frank. If he got Calderon because Knight was too inexperienced, I doubt they are going to get an even more inexperienced PG to run the show next year.

Though, I guess its possible we fill all of our main needs in FA/trades, and then use our pick on a PG as a longterm project to learn behind Calderon for a few years. But I don't see us drafting one to start next year or anytime soon, unless he's just a superstar in the making like Drummond that you just can't keep off the court, and he wins the job from Calderon.

[Brapman]

Nice post.

I think you're right. Calderon is going to be the PG for several seasons here. While he's not an elite PG like Paul, otherwise he's about as good an offensive PG as you get - a great passer and floor leader and very efficient shooter from everywhere on the court. Yeah, I know there are some guys who are more explosive scorers, but none of them make the team offense run better than Calderon does.

[Natopher]

I really don't see us drafting a PG. I think whats overlooked in the Calderon trade is the impact on Frank.

imo, this was as much a move for Dumars to get a PG he's coveted, as it was for him as a GM to get his coach the PG that he needs to be successful.

Unless you want to keep changing coaches every year, you have to get them the personel they need to succeed. Franks system succeeds when having a true veteran PG (Kidd, Rondo). Frank didn't choose Knight to be his QB. Knight was drafted before Frank got hired, and was basically forced upon him to be his court general.

You gotta get your coach the pieces they want, or else you might as well not even hire them in the first place.

For years, Joe has just assembled the players he wanted, then forced them on coaches. And when they didn't succeed, he blamed the coach, and went out and got another coach for the same players, rinse and repeat.

I like that he's back to giving his coaches the players [i/]they[/i] want, like he did with LB. So with that said, it doesn't seem logical to me that Dumars would force another rookie PG on Frank. If he got Calderon because Knight was too inexperienced, I doubt they are going to get an even more inexperienced PG to run the show next year.

Though, I guess its possible we fill all of our main needs in FA/trades, and then use our pick on a PG as a longterm project to learn behind Calderon for a few years. But I don't see us drafting one to start next year or anytime soon, unless he's just a superstar in the making like Drummond that you just can't keep off the court, and he wins the job from Calderon.

If that's the case though, that Calderon is the guy Frank wanted/needs and is going to be our PG going forward, wouldn't it make more sense to trade Knight for a quality SG/SF and then draft a PG with good potential to learn under Calderon and be the backup? Knight is too talented and won't learn from coming off the bench as the backup getting only 20-24mpg. I doubt he'd be very happy with that role either. However, if you could flip him in a trade for someone like Kawhi Leonard (highly unlikely unless there were other pieces, but this is just an example) and then draft someone like Burke or Smart who'd be the backup PG while signing someone like Redick to play the SG, that would fix a lot of holes and not create any potential issues with players unhappy with their roles. No rookie PG is going to complain about coming off the bench as the backup in their first season unless they're either REALLY good or a headcase.

[Goldtop]

I really don't see us drafting a PG. I think whats overlooked in the Calderon trade is the impact on Frank.

imo, this was as much a move for Dumars to get a PG he's coveted, as it was for him as a GM to get his coach the PG that he needs to be successful.

Unless you want to keep changing coaches every year, you have to get them the personel they need to succeed. Franks system succeeds when having a true veteran PG (Kidd, Rondo). Frank didn't choose Knight to be his QB. Knight was drafted before Frank got hired, and was basically forced upon him to be his court general.

You gotta get your coach the pieces they want, or else you might as well not even hire them in the first place.

For years, Joe has just assembled the players he wanted, then forced them on coaches. And when they didn't succeed, he blamed the coach, and went out and got another coach for the same players, rinse and repeat.

I like that he's back to giving his coaches the players [i/]they[/i] want, like he did with LB. So with that said, it doesn't seem logical to me that Dumars would force another rookie PG on Frank. If he got Calderon because Knight was too inexperienced, I doubt they are going to get an even more inexperienced PG to run the show next year.

Though, I guess its possible we fill all of our main needs in FA/trades, and then use our pick on a PG as a longterm project to learn behind Calderon for a few years. But I don't see us drafting one to start next year or anytime soon, unless he's just a superstar in the making like Drummond that you just can't keep off the court, and he wins the job from Calderon.

If that's the case though, that Calderon is the guy Frank wanted/needs and is going to be our PG going forward, wouldn't it make more sense to trade Knight for a quality SG/SF and then draft a PG with good potential to learn under Calderon and be the backup? Knight is too talented and won't learn from coming off the bench as the backup getting only 20-24mpg. I doubt he'd be very happy with that role either. However, if you could flip him in a trade for someone like Kawhi Leonard (highly unlikely unless there were other pieces, but this is just an example) and then draft someone like Burke or Smart who'd be the backup PG while signing someone like Redick to play the SG, that would fix a lot of holes and not create any potential issues with players unhappy with their roles. No rookie PG is going to complain about coming off the bench as the backup in their first season unless they're either REALLY good or a headcase.

yep, thats what makes the most sense to me. You would think Knight at only 21 wouldn't be disgruntled about learning off the bench behind Calderon, but if he is then you probably have to trade him. Because he's proven he's not ready to be a starting PG full-time. So if he refuses to learn behind another PG, then idk what other option you have but to trade him, and then maybe you draft another young PG who will be willing to learn off the bench. The other option with Knight is try him at SG before relegating him to a backup role, which they are trying now, but without a a lot of success so far.

imo, if he doesn't prove something at SG the remainder of the year, I think Dumars is going to go out and get a better SG in FA/trades (Evans is my hope), and then likely try Knight at backup PG next year, giving him some time to learn behind Calderon for a year and give him another chance to be a PG longterm. I personally don't think Knight would be opposed to learning behind Calderon. All accounts say Knight is a very humble and willing learner.

It probably all depends on what you can get for him in trades and whats available in the draft, to decide if we should trade him or not. For instance, if the PGs available in the draft don't have any more potential than Knight, you might as well just keep Knight as your longterm PG project to learn behind Calderon. But if there is someone in the draft that could be a lot better than Knight longterm, and you can get something you need in a trade for Knight, then take the better PG in the draft and trade Knight.

[vic]

Does anybody like this guy? All the mock drafts have him going in the mid teens to even the early 20's and I can't figure out why. He looks like the best point guard in the draft to me. Averages high assists and low turnoevers, shoots great percentages from the field and 3, his FT shooting is solid and he has really good handles.

Can someone explain to me why guys like MCW and Marcus Smart (I haven't seen Marcus Smart play so I'm basing this off stats, so forgive me, I hear he plays great D) are ranked so much higher than him? Burke seems to be able to control games well, find open guys and hit them on the numbers consistently, numbers are good, I just don't understand why a point guard who's A/T ratio is 7.0/1.8 and is solid everywhere else is predicted to go below a tweener MCW (8.2/3.6) and Smart (4.5/3.2).

Burke appears to be better than them in EVERY offensive category to me. Is this a size thing? I know Burke is small, but it still seems ridiculous to me to have him go in the teens. That seems very late to me.

Because groupthink is an idiot. No but really it's because those guys are superior to him defensively. But what people don't realize is that they are also superior to Kyrie Irving defensively.

Those guys can pass and defend well but they can't shoot.

[princeofpalace]

It's size and athleticism that are his issues. I watch Burke and see that he cannot beat the best college defenders off the dribble (without a pick from his big men), and that he cannot finish amongst the trees in traffic. That inability to beat players 1 on 1 in college is only going to become a lot more problematic in the pros.

To his credit, he's got a very nice tight handle, seems to have nice PG instincts, and he's super competitive - but his issues raise serious concerns about him as an NBA prospect.

This. Burke is a role player in the NBA, if that.

Being a good NCAA player doesnt mean that a guy will be good in the NBA and struggling in the NCAA doesnt mean that guys will be be bad in the NBA.

And, for the record, Smart is not a PG in the NBA- he's an undersized 2 guard- a less athletic version of Eric Gordon

[vic]

People overrate athleticism that's why Pgs like Calderon constantly outperform other guards and run offenses better but still gets hated on.

Trey Burke is even better, he'll be the best pg in this class and one the steals of the draft. A guy who can:
A. Get to the rim
B. hit 3 pointers
C. Hit mid range jumpers
D. Get assists without turnovers
E. actually understand and control the game at more than 1 speed

And whose only weakness is defense which can be mitigated by the weight room and hustle.
Is worth his weight in gold. Look at Lillard and tell me that poise and game management doesn't matter for a pg. Same reason Isaiah Thomas was picked last in his draft but he's better than 90% of his draft class. (by the way i called it on Isaiah Thomas too) But Trey shoots better than Thomas, and is 6'0 with a 6'5 wingspan, and defensively has picked it up in Big 10 play. And what people don't realize is that he's dominating the ncaa with no post presence... And even when they lose he still produces at a high level.

[DetroitSho]

People overrate athleticism that's why Pgs like Calderon constantly outperform other guards and run offenses better but still gets hated on.

Trey Burke is even better, he'll be the best pg in this class and one the steals of the draft. A guy who can:
A. Get to the rim
B. hit 3 pointers
C. Hit mid range jumpers
D. Get assists without turnovers
E. actually understand and control the game at more than 1 speed

And whose only weakness is defense which can be mitigated by the weight room and hustle.
Is worth his weight in gold. Look at Lillard and tell me that poise and game management doesn't matter for a pg. Same reason Isaiah Thomas was picked last in his draft but he's better than 90% of his draft class. (by the way i called it on Isaiah Thomas too) But Trey shoots better than Thomas, and is 6'0 with a 6'5 wingspan, and defensively has picked it up in Big 10 play. And what people don't realize is that he's dominating the ncaa with no post presence... And even when they lose he still produces at a high level.

Great post!!

[need4detroit]

Burkes more athletic than people give him credit for. But I wouldn't draft him if I were Detroit.

[Warspite]

Hes not an NBA player.

He cant get a jump shot off on NBA defenses.
He cant guard an NBA player.

A. Cant get to the rim
B. Cant shoot 3s (Over NBA players)
C. Cant hit midrange jumpers over NBA defenses


Good college player.

[Mr. Krabs]

I admit, I like him because he is a Wolverine.

[mercury]

I think he'll be an excellent PG off the bench... where size, defense and athleticism are not a deficiency... potential starter on the right team... would be worth picking up with a late first (pretty sure he'll slide unless he blows up in the tournament).
No need to be overly critical... Nice player