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Clippers/Jazz Trade Discussion

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Re: Clips and Jazz Discussing Bledsoe For Millsap 

Post#41 » by ejftw » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:38 am

blackham9258 wrote:My example isn't hypothetical. It happens to you guys right now and you won't be keeping Bledsoe after next year. Your weakness for a championship run is your front court depth, not your back court. Look, we would be keeping Millsap if we didn't have so many young guns ready to move into the starting roll... but we are finally ready to rebuild.

My analysis of your core weakness is spot on. Also your hypothetical about CP3 getting injured is fine but the only way any team wins a championship is if their best players are healthy. If CP3 is injured your season is over, same with Miami and Lebron or OKC and Durrant. But with Millsap, he helps you get your championship this year.


It is hypothetical. Why? Because most of the time, it is Blake & LO finishing games that are close, not Blake & DJ.

And even with our current front court depth, we'd pummel the Heat in the paint and I'd favor us over the Thunder as well. Only the Grizzlies have a front court to really disrupt is. Maybe Denver and the Warriors (if Bogs is fully back) and the Lakers if they sneak in somehow, but not a huge enough weakness to acquire an EXPIRING big man that plays LESS defense than Zach Randolph.

Keep Bledsoe, bring back Kenyon Martin is a much BETTER solution than lose Bledsoe & Butler (or Odom) for Millsap.

Throw in Burks and a pick-swap is the only way to convince me.
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Re: Clips and Jazz Discussing Bledsoe For Millsap 

Post#42 » by blackham9258 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:46 am

Look guys I think it is a good move to not trade Bledsoe too. And I totally get why you would want to keep him and it makes equal sense to keep him to see if you can get more for him, or to hedge against CP3 leaving etc. He is a good young player with lots of potential. I just think it is also good value for him too.

Its funny when a trade rumor happens sometimes you get one side thinking it is terrible and the other side thinks the same thing. Usually if both sides think they need to get more value out of a trade (while also conceding how the other player could really help them) then that is when you usually have a fair trade.

I am a Jazz fan of course, and am not as high on Bledsoe as others are... some of our fans want to give up a pick for him.. and I wouldn't... but thats me. I live in KC and got online to see what Utah Jazz Radio was saying about it.. and like typical fans these broadcasters were saying that Millsap had more value then getting an up and coming backup PG and that we should be getting a pick from LAC.

Then they had on Chris Mannix (who is from SI.com I think) and he was saying he thought it was a great deal for the Clippers and that it would greatly improve their championship chances because the Garnett thing is never going to happen and they need to do something about "their Deandre Jordan problem". He then also made the point that it made great sense for the Jazz too. So, thats one unbiased national pundit for you.
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Re: Clips and Jazz Discussing Bledsoe For Millsap 

Post#43 » by Neddy » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:03 am

we don't have a deandre jordan problem. go check out his per 36 stats. we have a vinny del negro problem.

for the record, i do not wish to trade DJ for KG either. KG is washed up and will retire after this season. why rent when we have pieces that can last a dynasty?
ehhhhh f it.
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Re: Clips and Jazz Discussing Bledsoe For Millsap 

Post#44 » by blackham9258 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:19 am

I haven't really understood the Del Negro problem... people talk about it all the time... what is it? Also, since it was announced that CP3 has the de facto last say in all gm decisions do you think he will seek a new coach in the off season as a condition for him resigning? What about a Phil Jackson signing that would be huge.

Deandre is a great player and worth keeping but until he gets his FT's figured out he is a major playoff liability down the stretch. Thats my only point with DJ.

I am interested to know who at this deadline you would trade Bledsoe for that you think you could realistically get... just interested in knowing how much value you believe he has.

Thursday will definately be interesting... I am hoping you guys do something because I don't want to see KD or Tim Duncan going to the finals again.
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Re: Clips and Jazz Discussing Bledsoe For Millsap 

Post#45 » by ejftw » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:22 am

Man, I really think you should become a used car salesman. Really adamant and pushy. Not an insult by the way.


Vinny has horrible rotations and can not draw up a play to come out of the time-out.
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Re: Clips and Jazz Discussing Bledsoe For Millsap 

Post#46 » by azncorruptedo17 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:31 am

let's just all agree to disagree. :)
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The argument for Paul Millsap 

Post#47 » by Winglish » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:03 am

The Utah Jazz have beaten the Spurs, Thunder, and Heat this season. To beat those teams, the Jazz employed their big lineup with Jefferson and Favors in the frontcourt and Millsap playing the small forward position. They went out and bullied those teams down low. Does anybody remember Millsap's 46 point game and winning three point shot against the Heat last year? He played small forward in that game also.
Millsap would provide a huge scoring and rebounding punch for the Clippers' second unit. He has been more than holding his own as a starter in the NBA for several years now. Millsap would be the 6th Man of the Year on the Clippers. He would also add a proven player who is also capable of playing the small forward spot when the Clippers want to go big.
Millsap is the tough, toolbox and hard hat kind of player that is willing to do the dirty work (a type of player the Clips definitely need, IMO).

Suppose Millsap does not re-sign at the end of the year...Worst case scenario? The end result would be an extra $8.5 million in salary cap space to sign whatever free agent is out there or to absorb extra salary in a trade.

Best case scenario? Clippers beat the Heat by throwing Jordan, Griffin, and Millsap together with Paul and Billups. The Heat are most vulnerable against teams with post depth. Millsap could be the piece that helps bring a title to LA.
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Re: The argument for Paul Millsap 

Post#48 » by Neddy » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:08 am

:giveup:

why won't you people stay in your team's forum, or post all these crap in general NBA forum?
ehhhhh f it.
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Re: The argument for Paul Millsap 

Post#49 » by adiedanny » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:34 am

Winglish wrote:The Utah Jazz have beaten the Spurs, Thunder, and Heat this season. To beat those teams, the Jazz employed their big lineup with Jefferson and Favors in the frontcourt and Millsap playing the small forward position. They went out and bullied those teams down low. Does anybody remember Millsap's 46 point game and winning three point shot against the Heat last year? He played small forward in that game also.
Millsap would provide a huge scoring and rebounding punch for the Clippers' second unit. He has been more than holding his own as a starter in the NBA for several years now. Millsap would be the 6th Man of the Year on the Clippers. He would also add a proven player who is also capable of playing the small forward spot when the Clippers want to go big.
Millsap is the tough, toolbox and hard hat kind of player that is willing to do the dirty work (a type of player the Clips definitely need, IMO).

Suppose Millsap does not re-sign at the end of the year...Worst case scenario? The end result would be an extra $8.5 million in salary cap space to sign whatever free agent is out there or to absorb extra salary in a trade.

Best case scenario? Clippers beat the Heat by throwing Jordan, Griffin, and Millsap together with Paul and Billups. The Heat are most vulnerable against teams with post depth. Millsap could be the piece that helps bring a title to LA.

The Clippers have already beaten the Heat with our current line-up.
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Re: Clippers/Jazz Trade Discussion 

Post#50 » by Catchall » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:16 am

Just FYI, our GM met with Millsap in the locker room after the game tonight. Apparently Millsap came out after a while smiling. I'm going to guess the GM didn't give him a massage. Not sure what this means, but it's a bit unusual here for a GM to talk to a player after a game.

Oh, and Millsap would be a healthy upgrade over Lamar Odom for you guys.

Personally, I think that if the Clips do trade for Millsap, it's probably as much about clearing some cap-room to pursue free agents this summer as it is about getting Millsap for the stretch run. The best way to keep CP happy is to bring in another cherry-picked FA along with his max deal. So moving Butler and Bledsoe helps that cause.
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Re: Clippers/Jazz Trade Discussion 

Post#51 » by Litany » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:04 am

Trading for bledsoe will be too expensive for the Jazz so it won't happen and both teams stand pat. Clips will want one of the young players Jazz will say no the end and we go to the playoffs and see what happens.

Anyway good luck Clips fans I envy you having the best PG in the league :)
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Re: Clippers/Jazz Trade Discussion 

Post#52 » by RyanStorm » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:41 am

After watching Burks play again tonight for 20+ minutes, I honestly don't want Bledsoe. We got to vets who aren't amazing, but Burks played more than our two active PG's and he out performed more than most would think against a team like GS. He is like a young athletic Curry, who just doesn't shoot 9 threes but does make 2-3. I rather have Burks for our bench PG than Bledsoe.


Jazz are way better off getting a draft pick PG, and keeping Mo(who really wants to be here), and use Burks as a Hybrid ball handler/shooter. Then to bring Bledsoe in who probably doesn't want to be here. Plus Mo will be back very soon, so we would have a surplus of PG's. Were probably gonna get our next PG in the draft.
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Re: The argument for Paul Millsap 

Post#53 » by ejftw » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:21 am

Winglish wrote:The Utah Jazz have beaten the Spurs, Thunder, and Heat this season. To beat those teams, the Jazz employed their big lineup with Jefferson and Favors in the frontcourt and Millsap playing the small forward position. They went out and bullied those teams down low. Does anybody remember Millsap's 46 point game and winning three point shot against the Heat last year? He played small forward in that game also.
Millsap would provide a huge scoring and rebounding punch for the Clippers' second unit. He has been more than holding his own as a starter in the NBA for several years now. Millsap would be the 6th Man of the Year on the Clippers. He would also add a proven player who is also capable of playing the small forward spot when the Clippers want to go big.
Millsap is the tough, toolbox and hard hat kind of player that is willing to do the dirty work (a type of player the Clips definitely need, IMO).

Suppose Millsap does not re-sign at the end of the year...Worst case scenario? The end result would be an extra $8.5 million in salary cap space to sign whatever free agent is out there or to absorb extra salary in a trade.

Best case scenario? Clippers beat the Heat by throwing Jordan, Griffin, and Millsap together with Paul and Billups. The Heat are most vulnerable against teams with post depth. Millsap could be the piece that helps bring a title to LA.


Clippers are 1-1 vs Miami, 2-0 vs San Antonio, 0-2 vs Oklahoma City (one was OT in OKC and the other was without Paul. The OT game, Clips missed Butler & Hill). Washington has beaten some top teams as well. What is your point with that again? Mike Taylor dropped 30 in MSG at one point.

Clippers already have the 6MoY in Crawford, and a serviceable backup PF in Odom.

Millsap is an atrocious defender so he isn;t a dirty work kind of guy. Those kind of players refer to guys such as Kenyon Martin, Reggie Evans, Danny Fortson, Elton Brand, Charles Oakley, etc. Guys who defend, grab every board and get in opponents heads.

Millsap for Odom and Bledsoe will not give the Clippers an additional 8.5 million, but an additional 2.6 million in salary cap space, which is very minimal.

You want the Clippers to play Millsap at the three and expect him to guard LeBron? That is some good stuff you guys have up there in SLC.

Catchall wrote:Just FYI, our GM met with Millsap in the locker room after the game tonight. Apparently Millsap came out after a while smiling. I'm going to guess the GM didn't give him a massage. Not sure what this means, but it's a bit unusual here for a GM to talk to a player after a game.

Oh, and Millsap would be a healthy upgrade over Lamar Odom for you guys.

Personally, I think that if the Clips do trade for Millsap, it's probably as much about clearing some cap-room to pursue free agents this summer as it is about getting Millsap for the stretch run. The best way to keep CP happy is to bring in another cherry-picked FA along with his max deal. So moving Butler and Bledsoe helps that cause.


Maybe reassurance that he won't get traded? Or else something would be leaked big time.

RyanStorm wrote:After watching Burks play again tonight for 20+ minutes, I honestly don't want Bledsoe. We got to vets who aren't amazing, but Burks played more than our two active PG's and he out performed more than most would think against a team like GS. He is like a young athletic Curry, who just doesn't shoot 9 threes but does make 2-3. I rather have Burks for our bench PG than Bledsoe.


Jazz are way better off getting a draft pick PG, and keeping Mo(who really wants to be here), and use Burks as a Hybrid ball handler/shooter. Then to bring Bledsoe in who probably doesn't want to be here. Plus Mo will be back very soon, so we would have a surplus of PG's. Were probably gonna get our next PG in the draft.


Mo also really wanted to remain in Milwaukee. Then Cleveland (until LeBron left and he was going to kill himself), and Los Angeles.

And good, finally this crappy "rumor" for the Clippers side of things can die.
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Re: Clippers/Jazz Trade Discussion 

Post#54 » by CallMeKahn » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:16 pm

The Utah Jazz have beaten the Spurs, Thunder, and Heat this season.


This matters why?

Anyway, I have an honest question for you Clips fans. Assuming the trade went down as Millsap for Bledsoe and Odom, and the indications were Millsap were staying in town, would you guys be for the trade then?
daoneandonly wrote:Utah doesnt have anyhting close value wise to get Dallas to even pick up the phone


Said in reference to Utah's trade assets in a potential Doncic deal.
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Re: Clippers/Jazz Trade Discussion 

Post#55 » by azncorruptedo17 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:28 pm

CallMeKahn wrote:
The Utah Jazz have beaten the Spurs, Thunder, and Heat this season.


This matters why?

Anyway, I have an honest question for you Clips fans. Assuming the trade went down as Millsap for Bledsoe and Odom, and the indications were Millsap were staying in town, would you guys be for the trade then?


only if he takes a paycut to about 6-8mil. but that's not gonna happen, millsap is at least a 10mil player so that already kills the hypothetical trade.

so no, don't want him. i'd rather get KG.
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Re: Clippers/Jazz Trade Discussion 

Post#56 » by scoobs07 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:42 pm

I would prefer a trade for KG, but I guess Milsap could be a good back up plan. I guess the Clippers thinking could be Milsap would be able to provide 15ppg and 8rpg off the bench in 30-35 minutes, as opposed to a combination of Odom, Turiaf and Hollins, who probably put up something like 12 and 8, but Milsap would do a better job spreading the floor. This kind of gives the Clippers a better opportunity to win now, since Bled's minutes are limited behind CP/Billups. As far as the long term plans, it probably doesn't make a lot of sense for the Clippers to sign Milsap to a 5 year/50-55 million dollar contract to be a 7th man. Maybe the Clippers envision utilizing Milsap in a sign and trade deal for a starting SF or something like that? I'm sure Utah would also have to include at least one of their 1st round picks as part of this deal, since Milsap would basically be a rental.
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Re: Clippers/Jazz Trade Discussion 

Post#57 » by ejftw » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:45 pm

CallMeKahn wrote:
The Utah Jazz have beaten the Spurs, Thunder, and Heat this season.


This matters why?

Anyway, I have an honest question for you Clips fans. Assuming the trade went down as Millsap for Bledsoe and Odom, and the indications were Millsap were staying in town, would you guys be for the trade then?


If he agrees to a 3/18 extension, otherwise, no dice.
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Re: Clippers/Jazz Trade Discussion 

Post#58 » by Winglish » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:07 pm

@ejftw

http://www.82games.com/nichols1.htm

Statistics show the truth. You claim Millsap is not a good defender? Millsap's defensive composite score is consistently top 20 in the NBA. When his teammates speak about Millsap, they often use the word "beast" to describe him.
Here is a breakdown from Synergy Sports of Paul Millsap's defensive stats for 2012:
...However, all movement areas Paul is great. 37th best in the NBA on isolation plays, #24 off the screen and #55 when put into pick and roll guarding the roller. He also did a really respectable job dealing with stretch 4’s only allowing 33% three point shooting on the spot ups.

The spot up defense is a nice change a year ago he allowed 40% of three’s on spot ups.

His isolation defense is amazing. Players shot 28% against him and he forced 11% of possessions into turnovers and didn’t give up a single and 1. This is not new last year players shot 36% against him and he forced 17% of the plays into turnovers.


Looks like this trade was talked about but is not going down, so it's a moot point anyway.
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Re: Clippers/Jazz Trade Discussion 

Post#59 » by CallMeKahn » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:19 pm

The deal maybe dead. https://mobile.twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 6m
Just under 20 hours left before trade deadline for stances to change, but mostly standing-pat rumbles coming from both Clipperland and Utah
daoneandonly wrote:Utah doesnt have anyhting close value wise to get Dallas to even pick up the phone


Said in reference to Utah's trade assets in a potential Doncic deal.
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Re: Clippers/Jazz Trade Discussion 

Post#60 » by azncorruptedo17 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:31 pm

fine with me. give us hayward and you got a deal ;)
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