Trade Targets, Part Deux

[Sharcm1]

Why not do a three way trade with the hawks and lakers.

We trade hump, Wallace, marshon and either a pick or bojan
We get Howard


The hawks trade smith and morrow
Get Wallace, hump and either the pick or bojan

The lakers trade Howard
Get smith morrow and marshon.

[PetroNet]

Why not do a three way trade with the hawks and lakers.

We trade hump, Wallace, marshon and either a pick or bojan
We get Howard


The hawks trade smith and morrow
Get Wallace, hump and either the pick or bojan

The lakers trade Howard
Get smith morrow and marshon.

Why in the world would the hawks do that?

- they dont get a good player in the deal
- they take on a TERRIBLE contract in Wallace
- they take on a BAD contract in humphries
- they get a late pick or the rights to a euro who may not come over for 2 years

So lets see, they trade a solid player who doubles as a huge expiring contract in order to take on a TON of salary, commit to wallace for 3 more years and dont get any young talent, lottery picks, or a euro who may not even be here next year.

[PetroNet]

WojYahooNBA: In pursuit of guard help, the Celtics have made rookie center Fab Melo available in trade offers, league sources tell Y! Sports.

Celtics making Fab Melo is available for a guard apparently, yet he was nothing special at all playing in the D League, yet Toko & Taylor ripped up D League.

i dont think the celtics are looking for some stud... they lost 2 gaurds who played heavy minutes to ACL injuries. the likely just need warm bodies

[PetroNet]

There is no way we're sending 3 1st rounders for Josh Smith.

id give even 4 for him in a split second. perfect fit for our team more then any non-top 12 player in the league. elite defense from the 4.

The fact you'd send out 4 1st round picks and pay Smith $94m over 5 years is beyond crazy to me. We're talking about Josh Smith here, not Howard, not LeBron, not Wade, not KD.....Josh "Low IQ" Smith

small price to play for an elite PF defender who brings competitivness, athleticism and the ability to gaurd any 3/4 in the league with him. he is a much better fit then even dwight howard, and we wouldnt have to give up anything of value for him.

those picks are worthless, will be in the late 20's and we could purchase picks to replace them

[Sharcm1]

Then why would the hawks do any of the deals that
Have been rumored over the past few weeks. Hump and fillr for smith. At least they get the filler hump and a starter in Wallace. It's only smith that really matters. Morrow barely plays
For the hawks.

[N Ireland Nets]

small price to play for an elite PF defender who brings competitivness, athleticism and the ability to gaurd any 3/4 in the league with him. he is a much better fit then even dwight howard, and we wouldnt have to give up anything of value for him.

those picks are worthless, will be in the late 20's and we could purchase picks to replace them

Since the $3m limit on money spent in the new CBA, not a single 1st round pick has been bought for just money.

So you'd be fine with sending out 2013,2015,2017 & 2019 picks which means we'd still owe picks for Josh Smith long after his 5 year contract is finished.....thats nuts

[PetroNet]

Then why would the hawks do any of the deals that
Have been rumored over the past few weeks. Hump and fillr for smith. At least they get the filler hump and a starter in Wallace. It's only smith that really matters. Morrow barely plays
For the hawks.

1) the hawks WONT do any of the rumored deals where they take back humphries. which is why everytime you hear it mentioned its "nets are looking/likely to need a 3rd team to get involved". Because they need someone to send atlanta an expiring in exchange for humphries.

2) Wallace would be an enormous negative for the hawks. It kills their cap space and its on the books for another 3 years. at least humphries expires next season.

you cant expect the hawks to take 2 huge negatives and send us josh smith, just so they could add a C+ prospect in brooks and a pick in the 20's in a weak draft.

Think about it this way. if our goal was JUST to get rid of Wallace and Humphries, and not get a good player in return, we would have to give some team 2-3 picks, brooks, euro rights and even then they probably say no.

[NyCeEvO]

There is no way we're sending 3 1st rounders for Josh Smith.

Bucks can beat our offer easily without sending Ellis:



Throw in a 1st or 2 and we can't get near to that value. The problem here, if its true, is that Smith wants to play with Jennings and Ellis. If he said that about Williams, Lopez, Johnson then this deal would be a wrap and Smith would be a Net.

Henson is reportedly untouchable, but I don't believe it.

Although what you said at the bottom is basically my belief.

If Josh is really concerned about winning, he'd go to BKN.
If he just wants his money, #HelloBucks.

[DarkXaero]

If we're going to lose out on Smith (and assuming Milsap), would it make sense to make the ATL-MIL trade for Smith include BKN too?

What I mean is would you guys take Illyosova in a 3 team deal, or should we wait until the summer to make a move?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=abctyvt

BKN - Big upgrade at PF, a guy that can stretch and shoot the 3 and can rebound... Evans goes back to the bench role definitely. Korver replaces Marshon, becomes our 6th man scorer off we really need. Tolliver was throw in to make the deal work for ATL.

1) ilyasova isnt a "big upgrade at PF". He isnt good defensively. and offensively while he can shoot the 3 he makes a TON of boneheaded plays. he is basially the same as what we have now only he can shoot from the outside. and if thats all we get, we may as well just play mirza more.

2) his contract is awful. why are we going to use the last of our assets that would allow us to bring in a 10+ million player and lock it into ilyasova for 4 years? thats like begging for us to be a trademill team that never has any chance of getting over the hump.

there are few players+contracts id want less then ilyasova. i was extremely thrilled when king didnt give him money this past summer.

Why do you say everything at extreme hyperbole? And why do you constantly contradict yourself? Ilyasova would be a major upgrade offensively and he is better defensively than any of our PFs. He makes a ton of boneheaded plays? That's surprising coming from someone prepared to give away everything for the master of boneheaded plays, Josh Smith. Fact is Ilyasova is a far superior shooting threat & a more efficient scoring option to Josh Smith and he is a better rebounder too.

You're calling Ilyasova's contract awful (it actually isn't bad at all, when you consider his first year production after signing the deal), yet you're in favor of giving a 5 year max deal to Josh Smith which will kill our flexibility in 2016?

Ilyasova will be earning less than HALF of what Josh Smith will be making, and will actually be much easier to move (near the end of the contract), if need be.

I don't think there's anyone here who makes more head shaking posts than you (well, maybe DWOTG)

[Keith Van Horn]

Why not do a three way trade with the hawks and lakers.

We trade hump, Wallace, marshon and either a pick or bojan
We get Howard


The hawks trade smith and morrow
Get Wallace, hump and either the pick or bojan

The lakers trade Howard
Get smith morrow and marshon.

I mentioned something like this earlier.

But the Hawks would have to get Lopez so they can have a Horford/Lopez front court.

I think I said something like (essentially big names are)

BKN - Howard
LAL - Smith
ATL - Lopez

Now throw in Hump, Marshon, picks.... morrow to LAL, a few other minor players moved.



OT: How much is Devin Harris going to want next year since his contract is going to be up?

[PetroNet]

small price to play for an elite PF defender who brings competitivness, athleticism and the ability to gaurd any 3/4 in the league with him. he is a much better fit then even dwight howard, and we wouldnt have to give up anything of value for him.

those picks are worthless, will be in the late 20's and we could purchase picks to replace them

Since the $3m limit on money spent in the new CBA, not a single 1st round pick has been bought for just money.

Hold on, you mean in the entire ONE YEARS of drafts since the new CBA no picks have been bought? wow what a long standing track record! no one would ever sell a pick.

even if they wouldnt, im fine buying second rounders, guys dont get gauranteed contracts and we can use it on more euro-stashes

So you'd be fine with sending out 2013,2015,2017 & 2019 picks which means we'd still owe picks for Josh Smith long after his 5 year contract is finished.....thats nuts

Yes. in fact, id do if one of those were a lottery pick. Smith is an outstand player and elite defender. he is one of the only guys in the league you could insert into this lineup at the 4 that would cure basically all our issues and take us from complete pretender to darkhorse contender.

the money is meaningless to me. we are locked into this team/over the cap for the next 3 years. if smith pushes that back another year im fine with that, as it would have been well worth it to upgrade the team we are locked into for the next several seasons.

i fail to see what key future pieces we'd take with late 20's picks. and i dont see who we would sign in the summer of '16-17 for 12 million dollars that would be significantly better then a 31 year old smith either.

all this talk that smith kills us in '16-17. not realistic unless you plan on letting lopez walk as an expiring. otherwise we have lopez/dwill alone taking up 41 million plus at best 8-10 cap holds taking up another 4 million or so.

[NyCeEvO]

Then why would the hawks do any of the deals that
Have been rumored over the past few weeks. Hump and fillr for smith. At least they get the filler hump and a starter in Wallace. It's only smith that really matters. Morrow barely plays
For the hawks.

1) Cap space is king.

2) I've never heard Wallace being included in the deal and even if was, I don't think he'd be a positive asset at this point.

[PetroNet]

Ilyasova would be a major upgrade offensively and he is better defensively than any of our PFs. He makes a ton of boneheaded plays? That's surprising coming from someone prepared to give away everything for the master of boneheaded plays, Josh Smith. Fact is Ilyasova is a far superior shooting threat & a more efficient scoring option to Josh Smith and he is a better rebounder too.

Ilyasova isnt a major upgrade offensively. an upgrade, yes, but other then shooting long 2's and 3's he isnt doing much. and for 4 years at what, 32 million... i want more then a jumpshooter, especially when i already have mirza sitting on the bench.

does josh smith make boneheaded plays? hell yes! but he also plays elite defense. ilyasova doesnt play elite defense. ilyasova is a stud against the pick and roll. ilyasova isnt slowing down the carmello's of the world. ilyasova isnt getting out on the break or finishing in traffic.

Ilyasova is a rich man's mirza. that isnt going to have a big impact. smith is an outstanding defender that could make an enormous impact on that end while still being a huge upgrade offensively to what we have.

our defense is piss poor and the worst among all playoff teams. getting ilyasova doesnt change that. getting smith does.

You're calling Ilyasova's contract awful (it actually isn't bad at all, when you consider his first year production after signing the deal), yet you're in favor of giving a 5 year max deal to Josh Smith which will kill our flexibility in 2016?

id gladly overpay a guy who is excellent on defense and has a chance to significantly impact our team. i have no desire to take on a guy making 32 million who would make a minor impact and not solve our defensive issues. its not even so much the contract with ilyasova so much as it is using our last chance to take on a 10+ million dollar player.

Ilyasova will be earning less than HALF of what Josh Smith will be making, and will actually be much easier to move (near the end of the contract), if need be.

and he would make 1/10 the impact.

[N Ireland Nets]

Hold on, you mean in the entire ONE YEARS of drafts since the new CBA no picks have been bought? wow what a long standing track record! no one would ever sell a pick.

even if they wouldnt, im fine buying second rounders, guys dont get gauranteed contracts and we can use it on more euro-stashes

So you'd be fine with sending out 2013,2015,2017 & 2019 picks which means we'd still owe picks for Josh Smith long after his 5 year contract is finished.....thats nuts

Yes. in fact, id do if one of those were a lottery pick. Smith is an outstand player and elite defender. he is one of the only guys in the league you could insert into this lineup at the 4 that would cure basically all our issues and take us from complete pretender to darkhorse contender.

the money is meaningless to me. we are locked into this team/over the cap for the next 3 years. if smith pushes that back another year im fine with that, as it would have been well worth it to upgrade the team we are locked into for the next several seasons.

i fail to see what key future pieces we'd take with late 20's picks. and i dont see who we would sign in the summer of '16-17 for 12 million dollars that would be significantly better then a 31 year old smith either.

all this talk that smith kills us in '16-17. not realistic unless you plan on letting lopez walk as an expiring. otherwise we have lopez/dwill alone taking up 41 million plus at best 8-10 cap holds taking up another 4 million or so.

Watch how many late 1st's are bought for money alone this year.

I finished talking to you about Josh Smith if you honestly believe that about the picks. That is beyond insane.

[Keith Van Horn]

If we're going to lose out on Smith (and assuming Milsap), would it make sense to make the ATL-MIL trade for Smith include BKN too?

What I mean is would you guys take Illyosova in a 3 team deal, or should we wait until the summer to make a move?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=abctyvt

BKN - Big upgrade at PF, a guy that can stretch and shoot the 3 and can rebound... Evans goes back to the bench role definitely. Korver replaces Marshon, becomes our 6th man scorer off we really need. Tolliver was throw in to make the deal work for ATL.

1) ilyasova isnt a "big upgrade at PF". He isnt good defensively. and offensively while he can shoot the 3 he makes a TON of boneheaded plays. he is basially the same as what we have now only he can shoot from the outside. and if thats all we get, we may as well just play mirza more.

2) his contract is awful. why are we going to use the last of our assets that would allow us to bring in a 10+ million player and lock it into ilyasova for 4 years? thats like begging for us to be a trademill team that never has any chance of getting over the hump.

there are few players+contracts id want less then ilyasova. i was extremely thrilled when king didnt give him money this past summer.

The way I look at it is like this -- Dwight Howard is the real answer.

If not, I'll take Smith.
If no Smith, I'll take Illy.

Smith sounds great on paper and ideally he could be a great fit with Lopez. When he actually takes the court and gets in the locker room with the other guys, who knows what could happen with this team.

Evans and Tele are not the answer at PF, but I'll keep them if we can get Howard.

Also I mentioned about getting Korver. If we could get Korver and Illy for Hump, Brooks, and a first, I'm not mad at all.

[N Ireland Nets]

I can't believe how carried away people are getting over Josh Smith. Smith is a good player but he's never even been an All Star or even on a 1st, 2nd or 3rd All NBA team.

[PetroNet]

Watch how many late 1st's are bought for money alone this year.

I finished talking to you about Josh Smith if you honestly believe that about the picks. That is beyond insane.

I'm fine giving up the next Marshon Brooks, Sean Williams, Antoine Wright, Marcus Williams or whoever it is we would take with those 3 or 4 picks that would be in the mid 20's if it means getting Josh Smith.

if you wouldnt, thats fine. but those picks just arent as valuable as brining in a guy who make a huge impact to your team defensively and has a chance to prevent you from being a treadmill team you have 0 chance to improve for the next 4 seasons.

As far as buying picks, I can certainly see it happened, especially for a team drafting in mid to late 20's who is over the cap or luxury tax. And i can absolutely see someone selling us a second round pick, which im not sure i wouldnt have an early second then a late first anyway, as you dont need to gaurantee that money

[PetroNet]

I can't believe how carried away people are getting over Josh Smith. Smith is a good player but he's never even been an All Star or even on a 1st, 2nd or 3rd All NBA team.

He was on the NBA All-Defensive Team (2nd team, behind lebron)

All-star game is a popularity contest... hell look Lopez wasn't going to make it until an injury got in the way.

[NyCeEvO]

Ilyasova isnt a major upgrade offensively. an upgrade, yes, but other then shooting long 2's and 3's he isnt doing much. and for 4 years at what, 32 million... i want more then a jumpshooter, especially when i already have mirza sitting on the bench.

In this day and age, you're not going to get a superstud at 4/32mil. He isn't just an jumpshooter either. We've seen him go off with scoring and rebounding, especially against the Nets.

Yes, he's an upgrade offensively and while I wouldn't say it's massive upgrade, it is a key upgrade. Any PF that can shoot long 2s and 3s provides something that we have absolutely zero of right now. I wouldn't call that a small upgrade especially when PnR/PnP is one of the most simple, efficient, and effective ways to get points on the board.

does josh smith make boneheaded plays? hell yes! but he also plays elite defense. ilyasova doesnt play elite defense. ilyasova is a stud against the pick and roll. ilyasova isnt slowing down the carmello's of the world. ilyasova isnt getting out on the break or finishing in traffic.

This is true.

The one thing I do wonder though is would Josh Smith actually change the defensive culture of this team. I thought we'd be at least average on defense with having JJ and Wallace on the team, especially given the fact that Lopez has improved shotblocking. Unfortunately, the defense is just epically bad, and I'm wondering whether additional personnel can fix that.

If we don't change our coach, then I don't know how much of a defensive change we can expect. And if Josh's defense is negated due to the coaching staff, we'd have a guy who's pretty inefficient on offense and can't be effective on defense with a near-max/max contract on the books. I'm hoping a change at the helm will fix that potential problem though.

Ilyasova is a rich man's mirza. that isnt going to have a big impact. smith is an outstanding defender that could make an enormous impact on that end while still being a huge upgrade offensively to what we have.

our defense is piss poor and the worst among all playoff teams. getting ilyasova doesnt change that. getting smith does.

Agreed.

id gladly overpay a guy who is excellent on defense and has a chance to significantly impact our team. i have no desire to take on a guy making 32 million who would make a minor impact and not solve our defensive issues. its not even so much the contract with ilyasova so much as it is using our last chance to take on a 10+ million dollar player.

Agreed, but see above for my concern. JJ and Wallace are good individual defenders and Lopez is an improved defender, but our team defense is horrific. That almost undoubtedly means that the coaching staff just doesn't have a clue what they're doing on the defensive end.

If PJ is re-hired, the impact of Smith goes way down and value of him on a near-max/max contract goes down as well.

[DarkXaero]

Ilyasova would be a major upgrade offensively and he is better defensively than any of our PFs. He makes a ton of boneheaded plays? That's surprising coming from someone prepared to give away everything for the master of boneheaded plays, Josh Smith. Fact is Ilyasova is a far superior shooting threat & a more efficient scoring option to Josh Smith and he is a better rebounder too.

Ilyasova isnt a major upgrade offensively. an upgrade, yes, but other then shooting long 2's and 3's he isnt doing much. and for 4 years at what, 32 million... i want more then a jumpshooter, especially when i already have mirza sitting on the bench.

does josh smith make boneheaded plays? hell yes! but he also plays elite defense. ilyasova doesnt play elite defense. ilyasova is a stud against the pick and roll. ilyasova isnt slowing down the carmello's of the world. ilyasova isnt getting out on the break or finishing in traffic.

Ilyasova is a rich man's mirza. that isnt going to have a big impact. smith is an outstanding defender that could make an enormous impact on that end while still being a huge upgrade offensively to what we have.

our defense is piss poor and the worst among all playoff teams. getting ilyasova doesnt change that. getting smith does.

You're calling Ilyasova's contract awful (it actually isn't bad at all, when you consider his first year production after signing the deal), yet you're in favor of giving a 5 year max deal to Josh Smith which will kill our flexibility in 2016?

id gladly overpay a guy who is excellent on defense and has a chance to significantly impact our team. i have no desire to take on a guy making 32 million who would make a minor impact and not solve our defensive issues. its not even so much the contract with ilyasova so much as it is using our last chance to take on a 10+ million dollar player.

Ilyasova will be earning less than HALF of what Josh Smith will be making, and will actually be much easier to move (near the end of the contract), if need be.

and he would make 1/10 the impact.

How are you going to tell me that Ilyasova, who has a significantly higher TS% than Josh Smith, isn't a major upgrade offensively for us? Especially when we have major spacing issues and he is a stretch 4? You're talking about Ilyasova taking long 2s and 3s. Well, Josh Smith does the same except he doesn't make them You're also very misguided if you think Ilyasova's game is strictly perimeter. He is excellent at crashing the glass for tip ins and easy buckets. He is having a down year in rebounding, but that is possibly down to playing next to different players.

While Josh Smith is certainly elite defensively, he is not always elite and can be inconsistent. He's not some flawless, DPOY esque defender that you're making him out to be. I agree that his main value in coming to Brooklyn would be his defense, but let's not overrate the hell out of it.

Either way, Ilyasova would be a MAJOR (not minor) improvement on what we have. He's a legit stretch 4 who isn't bad defensively, and can be a hard working rebounder/garbage man, which makes him a unique player. There's no doubt that Josh Smith would be even better (much better), but you have to consider the cost. You can't just stupidly say things like "give them 4 1st round picks", give him the "5 year $94 mill max", we need him! Because that severely hurts our flexibility in the future and Josh Smith is NOT a superstar. I don't care if he hasn't made the all star game (he is an all star caliber player easily at his best), but he is NOT a superstar. You don't give up that much for someone who is not a superstar. It's not even just the assets, it's about losing the chance to get someone like Lebron, Durant, Bosh, Wade etc. when its 2016.