Trade Targets, Part Deux

[624]

Ben Gordon is a better shooter than JJ Redick.

[Paradise]

Stein said Bucks rejected Brooks/Hump for Ilyasova was rejected by MIlwaukee.

Brooklyn is pathetic.

Yup, they gave lopez a 4/48 deal, only to look like fools trying to trade him for a real player worth that contract
not to mention Hump has a hefty player option for next year.

When did we look to trade Lopez?

[rj2496]

I think King ultimately caves in and sends ATL Brooks, Hump, 1st rounder, and either Bogdanovic or another 1st rounder. I'm cool with that.

[therealbig3]

I think King ultimately caves in and sends ATL Brooks, Hump, 1st rounder, and either Bogdanovic or another 1st rounder. I'm cool with that.

I'd be cool with that...although, if Bogs is as good as advertised, I'd probably rather trade another 1st rounder.

But I think it's in Milwaukee's hands at this point, they have better trade assets...if they want Smith, they'll have him...but if they don't...there's really nothing out there for Atlanta outside of our deal. So we'll get him by default.

[AntwanBoldin]

I think King ultimately caves in and sends ATL Brooks, Hump, 1st rounder, and either Bogdanovic or another 1st rounder. I'm cool with that.

I'd be cool with that...although, if Bogs is as good as advertised, I'd probably rather trade another 1st rounder.

But I think it's in Milwaukee's hands at this point, they have better trade assets...if they want Smith, they'll have him...but if they don't...there's really nothing out there for Atlanta outside of our deal. So we'll get him by default.

The hawks get a lot of cash for hosting playoff games. They won't take hump just to take any deal

[machu46]

I think King ultimately caves in and sends ATL Brooks, Hump, 1st rounder, and either Bogdanovic or another 1st rounder. I'm cool with that.

I'd be cool with that...although, if Bogs is as good as advertised, I'd probably rather trade another 1st rounder.

But I think it's in Milwaukee's hands at this point, they have better trade assets...if they want Smith, they'll have him...but if they don't...there's really nothing out there for Atlanta outside of our deal. So we'll get him by default.

Yeah, I think this is how it's gonna end up shaking out too.

Only other possibility I see is if the Rockets can piece together a deal that sends Robinson on to Atlanta along with a 1st round pick and something else. Hawks want to make a run at Dwight in the summer so I don't think the Gortat + other stuff package from Phoenix will work. I guess if Boston decides to send Pierce and something else, that could work too, but I don't see that happening, and Jeff Green will not work.

[enetric]

Morey is a genius. They are sitting around $42m odd going into next season while he can cut Delfino and take Houston's salary down to $39m with Howard free agency coming up.

Lin
Harden
Chandler
Robinson
Howard

With Asik, Jones, Smith & Motiejunas still on the roster. Thats brilliant gm'ing by Morey, i mean he has played a brilliant hand in getting Harden while still having lots of assets going forward.

They're in a great spot. If Howard signs there, I think you handcuff Morey. He's a great gm, but is a bit too antsy and he may need to calm down a bit if he does have that team. Overall, however, he's second or third best in the entire league, behind Buford and Presti.

However, Geoff Petrie is terrible, it's official.

You can hate this trade and I am inclined to agree with you that on paper it makes little sense. But to to call Petrie a bad GM is wrong. Over his career the guy is one of the more respected guys around.


And one of these days someone is going to tell me what makes Presti so great. Is he good? Of course. I absolutely love the way the Thunder were built. Patience.

But losing and luck in the draft go a long way. Want to give him sole credit as talent evaluator? Ok... although most likely not true. But it seems to me that cash has motivated most of the trades they make for the worse or lack of signing guys when they had the cap space that could have allowed them to land that one additional piece before going over the cap to sign their own.

So lets change it up and realize that luck is everything here. Blazers take Durant and Presti takes? Like Rod Thorn always said...drafting Michael Jordan didnt make me a genius.

While Green hasnt worked out I never liked the Perkins trade. So tired of hearing about the intangibles of that bucket of suck. Doubtful the Harden trade works out for them and even if you want to say the market and ownership setting limits caused that...its on his watch.

They do such a great job over there getting value even at their lower picks. No doubt about that. I am saying there is more to a GM's job. Add in...he still has Brooks working for him...to me the worst coach in the NBA. Presti is good no doubt but he gets an awful lot of credit without people noticing things along the way that either worked out or probably didnt help their team.

[enetric]

And both them are undersized. What's your point?

Here we go

Atlanta: Josh Smith, 6'9 225
Boston: Jeff Green, 6'9 235
Chicago: Carlos Boozer, 6'9 260
Hornets: Anthony Davis, 6'10 220
Utah: Paul Millsap, 6'8 245
Indiana: David West 6'9 250
Hornets: Ryan Anderson, 6'10 240
Utah: Derrick Favors 6'10 240
LAC: Blake Griffin, 6'10 245
Chicago: Taj Gibson 6'9 225
Elton Bran is 6'9 240

I can go on and on but I won't

I actually think you are making the wrong point. Your point could have simply been why cant a guy be undersized AND an athletic specimen?

[Jersey Generals]

Petrie hasn't been good in nearly a decade. Literally. Terrible drafter, terrible signer, terrible trader. Whether it's because he's hand-tied by the ownership, who knows, but Petrie has flat out bad. It's been a long time since he's been good.

I mean, the guy traded a first round pick for a player only to waive him three months later.

[enetric]

fishsports: NBA source tells me #Rockets trade for #Kings Thomas Robinson is to facilitate another Hou deal

Looks like Houston might be sending Robinson for Smith, obviously a complete guess but it would make sense

Has anyone done the math on if they landed Smith could they manage to have enough cap space to re-sign Smith and give Howard the first year max?

If Houston pulled this off...I am sorry but the Harden trade will have bit the Thunder in the ass the extreme max. Trading him within conference and setting in motion the steps to making them a major hot spot and most likely their biggest competitor for years to come.

BTW...Rockets beat the Thunder tonight. Harden dropped 46 and then went out for a smoke and a pancake.

(Just saying...)

[therealbig3]

I think the negative effects of the Harden trade are going to be seriously apparent in the playoffs this year for OKC. The only reason OKC hasn't skipped a beat this regular season is because Durant kicked his game up into ridiculous, all-time great territory. He did that last playoffs too, and they still wouldn't have gotten past any of the teams they faced without Harden. Martin sure as hell doesn't replicate what Harden does, and Westbrook doesn't have enough IQ to take over the facilitator role that Harden manned.

So yeah, I agree, lucking out with Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka in 3 consecutive drafts after 3 years of sucking isn't great GMing. Trying to save money by trading Harden over Westbrook when Harden is a better player isn't great GMing. Durant developing into a bona fide superstar who is playing at a historic level right now isn't great GMing.

They still don't have a competent backup PG. Westbrook's backups for the last 2-3 years have ranged from Maynor to Fisher to Jackson. They still have Perkins, even though he's useless. And outside of Martin and Collison...who exactly is a productive player off their bench?

IMO, Presti is a decent GM who had a good teacher who gets overrated because Kevin Durant is **** ing awesome.

[enetric]

He loses bird rights if he is dealt this season so can veto any trade, he's saying he wouldn't veto a trade to Brooklyn but Brooklyn wouldn't be able to keep a hold of him in the summer, couldn't afford him.

Could give him 120% of his $4m deal I think but doubt he would take it, I duno.

But can we just take a moment to once again appreciate what the Bklyn move means to those of us who have supported this team for the last 25 years? What a feeling it is to have all these players want to play for us this badly!

When did we ever have anyone covet being a Net? To ask to be traded here? Unreal!

[Jersey Generals]

I'm sorry, but this whole "lucking out in the draft" is so **** asinine I don't even know where to begin. It's called good scouting, damn. And lucking out with Ibaka? Most ridiculous statement ever.

So yeah, I agree, lucking out with Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka in 3 consecutive drafts after 3 years of sucking isn't great GMing.

Come on, guy, you know what this makes you look like.

[enetric]

SamAmicoFSO: Source: Nets have secured Kris Humphries-for-Ben Gordon trade with Bobcats, but waiting to see what happens with Hawks' Josh Smith first.

So at worst we have got a huge $13.2m expiring for next season and a sharpeshooter off the bench to knock down 3's.

Lets see how it goes but it's going to the deadline it seems.

And Gordon has a buyout too right? How much is the buyout?

[therealbig3]

I think King ultimately caves in and sends ATL Brooks, Hump, 1st rounder, and either Bogdanovic or another 1st rounder. I'm cool with that.

I'd be cool with that...although, if Bogs is as good as advertised, I'd probably rather trade another 1st rounder.

But I think it's in Milwaukee's hands at this point, they have better trade assets...if they want Smith, they'll have him...but if they don't...there's really nothing out there for Atlanta outside of our deal. So we'll get him by default.

The hawks get a lot of cash for hosting playoff games. They won't take hump just to take any deal

They'll still make the playoffs without him. The East is really bad, and Atlanta is 7 games ahead of the 9th best team. It would take an epic collapse to lose a 7 game lead in 30 games in the Eastern conference...if Smith meant that much to them, that they play that poorly without him, he should be in the MVP race.

[enetric]

According to Sheridan Buss wants to trade Dwight and Kupchak doesn't.

Well if that's true...then it explains why Sheridan has been this aggressive about LA changing its mind. And its great news for us.

Last I checked on my sports chess board...Owner beats GM.

[enetric]

@HowardBeckNYT Received an emphatic denial that Nets have agreed to any Humphries/Gordon deal. They don't want Gordon, period.

Well, OK then.

ugh, I feel like that move can help us out big time. I guess it's Smoove or nothing.

Funny. And I feel that on the court that move would have as much impact as slicing through a rhino's ass with a plastic spoon.

I havent been this indifferent about acquiring a player on this board since we went round and round about Ron Mercer.

[therealbig3]

I'm sorry, but this whole "lucking out in the draft" is so **** asinine I don't even know where to begin. It's called good scouting, damn. And lucking out with Ibaka? Most ridiculous statement ever.

It doesn't take a great scout to see that Durant is amazing, he was the consensus top 2 pick that year, and Presti picked 2nd. Nothing genius going on there. And getting Durant is the biggest reason why the Thunder are so good, because Presti was lucky that Portland repeated the 1984 draft.

Westbrook and Harden were obviously great picks that upgraded them to contender status, but it was lucky that they took a little bit of time to develop, like Durant, which allowed OKC to tank some more and stock up on talent.

And Ibaka could have easily been a super raw freak athlete that never translated to the NBA. He was a late 1st round pick, those become busts all the time.

You make it sound like Presti hasn't done any questionable moves and that his track record is perfect, when I could just point to the Harden trade and Harden's subsequent superstardom when given the opportunity. I think Presti made the clearly wrong choice there, by picking not only Westbrook over Harden, but Ibaka too, and I was vocal about that at the time of the trade, this isn't hindsight speaking.

EDIT: JG, I did say that Presti was a good GM, and a ton of luck is involved in the building of any great team, and I would obviously take him in a heartbeat over Billy King. I just don't think he's an amazing GM with a special eye for talent. Like I said, the main reason why the Thunder are so good right now is because he got a Larry Bird/Dirk Nowitzki/Ray Allen hybrid gift-wrapped to him, and he accepted.

[enetric]

Timmy weighs in as well

Tim Bontemps ‏@TimBontemps
I was told last week that the Nets weren't going to do a Gordon-for-Humphries swap. I would be surprised if it had been revived.

Looks like general consensus (outside of Amico who is FSN and they never break a damn thing) is that we won't get Ben. I'm kind of disappointed. I like the idea of Hump going to Bobcats obscurity and us getting literally anything in return.

See now? And I want Hump to go to LA so that it spices up Keeping Up with the Kardashians!

Seriously now...Kanye and Kim sitting courtside...Hump lands on top of them chasing a lose ball and Hump slaps Kanye so hard he thinks he's Usher. THAT's GOOD TV!!!!

[Jersey Generals]

It doesn't take a great scout to see that Durant is amazing, he was the consensus top 2 pick that year, and Presti picked 2nd. Nothing genius going on there. And getting Durant is the biggest reason why the Thunder are so good, because Presti was lucky that Portland repeated the 1984 draft.

Portland didn't repeat anything. Oden was the number one pick that year, to say otherwise is revisionist history.

Westbrook and Harden were obviously great picks that upgraded them to contender status, but it was lucky that they took a little bit of time to develop, like Durant, which allowed OKC to tank some more and stock up on talent.

Great picks, but luck has nothing to do with the picks themselves here. It's good scouting, that's it. Luck has to do with the placement of the picks, sure, but not the picks themselves. It's the reason why the Kings and Wizards are absolutely bottom feeders: they can't draft.

And Ibaka could have easily been a super raw freak athlete that never translated to the NBA. He was a late 1st round pick, those become busts all the time.

But...Ibaka isn't a bust. When does one stop saying "he got lucky" and start saying, "damn, that's good scouting"?

You make it sound like Presti hasn't done any questionable moves and that his track record is perfect, when I could just point to the Harden trade and Harden's subsequent superstardom when given the opportunity. I think Presti made the clearly wrong choice there, by picking not only Westbrook over Harden, but Ibaka too, and I was vocal about that at the time of the trade, this isn't hindsight speaking.

I'm not making it sound like that at all. He has flaws. Just like RC Buford, just like Darryl Morey, just like Jerry West, just like Pat Riley, just like all of the greats. But to say that he isn't in the top 5 isn't being extremely disingenuous.

EDIT: JG, I did say that Presti was a good GM, and a ton of luck is involved in the building of any great team, and I would obviously take him in a heartbeat over Billy King. I just don't think he's an amazing GM with a special eye for talent. Like I said, the main reason why the Thunder are so good right now is because he got a Larry Bird/Dirk Nowitzki/Ray Allen hybrid gift-wrapped to him, and he accepted.

But you're basically taking every gming skill out of gming and coining it up to luck. If we went with you're way of thinking, no one would be a good gm. Pat Riley wouldn't be a good gm for picking Dwyane Wade, the hockey guy for taking Dwight over Okafor, etc.