The Empty Palace of Auburn Hills and these BORING Pistons

[Han Solo]

Dumars has lost the ability to excite a franchise. If it weren't for are 7, 8, 9 picks panning out the last 3 years - this team would be in shambles.

Unless he pulls off a miracle this offseason - the Palace will remain concerningly empty.

We had expiring deals this year that were actually worth something and he didn't move any of them. I like the Prince trade, but getting Calderon hasn't helped the attendance or attitude fans have towards this team.

Do you still have faith in Mr. Dumars?? Or in 2014 will he be replaced? Gores can't like going to watch the team he owns, play in front of a crowd fit for the Flint Tropics.

I'm worried about this team.

[Kilo]

How long before we start hearing whispers of the Pistons moving to Seattle if the Kings deal falls through?

[Han Solo]

How long before we start hearing whispers of the Pistons moving to Seattle if the Kings deal falls through?

I've been watching these guys since 1981. If we lost our team - it would be insane.

I'd quit watching basketball all together.

Hopefully Dumars figures this mess out.

[MrBigShot]

^Wont happen. This is one of the greatest franchises in the NBA. We have 3 championships, quite a few Hall of Famers, and two very memorable teams in the Bad Boys and the Play the right way team. Too much history and winning here to be moved. This is a great place to play in when we are winning, and one of the worst to be in when we are losing.

It just so happens that we are losing right now...but it wont last forever.

[Han Solo]

^Wont happen. This is one of the greatest franchises in the NBA. We have 3 championships, quite a few Hall of Famers, and two very memorable teams in the Bad Boys and the Play the right way team. Too much history and winning here to be moved. This is a great place to play in when we are winning, and one of the worst to be in when we are losing.

It just so happens that we are losing right now...but it wont last forever.

Hope you're right brother.

[Goldtop]

Its not Joe's job to put fans in the seats. Thats Dennis Mannions job. Joe's job is to put a winner on the court. If we start out 20-10 next year, fans will get excited and come to see whats happening with this team. Trading Bynum or Maxiell for a draft pick or some other teams garbage was not going to excite any fans into coming to games that weren't already interested in coming lol

If we start next year with the same exact team, or with only marginal improvements roster-wise, THEN you can call out Joe. But right now its ridiculously premature, when he's spent the whole year clearing capspace with the intent of adding pieces this summer, and its still only February.

[Han Solo]

I'm embarrassed for Andre Drummond everytime he has played at the Palace. It is so empty, it's shocking.

Was it this empty in the mid-90's? I don't remember EVER seeing it this empty.

I think when the attendance truly started to get horrible was during the Kuester and players fights that were going on. Stuckey is still here too.

The Rodney Stuckey era has to officially end here in my opinion..

[Piston Pete]

Its not Joe's job to put fans in the seats. Thats Dennis Mannions job. Joe's job is to put a winner on the court. If we start out 20-10 next year, fans will get excited and come to see whats happening with this team. Trading Bynum or Maxiell for a draft pick or some other teams garbage was not going to excite any fans into coming to games that weren't already interested in coming lol

If we start next year with the same exact team, or with only marginal improvements roster-wise, THEN you can call out Joe. But right now its ridiculously premature, when he's spent the whole year clearing capspace with the intent of adding pieces this summer, and its still only February.

You contradicted yourself here.

Ultimately, a winning team will bring the fans. Thats about it. If Gores wants to fill the Palace, he's going to go to Dumars to improve the team -- not Mannions.

[vege]

Well said Pete.

[Spider156]

I hope he does something incredible this summer. It really is the last one for him if he messes up and I think he knows it. This offseason is big for us and I hope we make some noise.

[Han Solo]

The one trade, now that I think about that didn't happen (and I'm fine with) is Will Bynum.

No one will have the chemistry he has with Drummond. I hope we somehow resign him at 2 yr/ 6 million deal (3 mil a year) - obviously would like it to be cheaper if possible. That's as high as I'd go.

He is a perfect backup PG and has absolutely perfected the lob. His penetration will always leave Drummond open for moster dunks.

Think about it. It's Stuckey (cut-his salary, it's only 4 mil if cut or find a trade), Maxiell, and Villanueva (amnesty or trade) that need to go. Maggette will expire too.

We can afford Bynum as a backup.

If we let him walk, watch Drummond's game be affected a bit.

[Snakebites]

Honestly, I hate to sound like a negative nelly, but I'm not getting the excitement about this offseason.

For those of who hoping for something great, what IS your best case scenario here in terms of realistic offseasons?

[Goldtop]

Its not Joe's job to put fans in the seats. Thats Dennis Mannions job. Joe's job is to put a winner on the court. If we start out 20-10 next year, fans will get excited and come to see whats happening with this team. Trading Bynum or Maxiell for a draft pick or some other teams garbage was not going to excite any fans into coming to games that weren't already interested in coming lol

If we start next year with the same exact team, or with only marginal improvements roster-wise, THEN you can call out Joe. But right now its ridiculously premature, when he's spent the whole year clearing capspace with the intent of adding pieces this summer, and its still only February.

You contradicted yourself here.

Ultimately, a winning team will bring the fans. Thats about it. If Gores wants to fill the Palace, he's going to go to Dumars to improve the team -- not Mannions.

No, I didn't contradict myself. You just completely misunderstood my post.

The OP said "Joe has lost the ability to excite a franchise", implying he should be making trades just to excite fans and create a buzz about the team. But that's Mannions job to create marketing buzz. Its not Joe's job to make trades just to excite fans. Its Joe's job to make trades that result in wins. When that happens, fans will come to games to see winning basketball.

In other words, Joe's not going to draw in fans if they are losing, no matter what sexy name he trades for. However, Mannion is supposed to draw in fans regardless of if they are winning or losing, through marketing, halftime entertainment, etc. Thats what he is paid for. Hence me saying its Mannions job to excite fans, not Joe's. Its Joe's job to win. If they get excited about winning, that's just a byproduct, but he's not being paid specifically to excite fans like he's just running some clown show.

[Han Solo]

Its not Joe's job to put fans in the seats. Thats Dennis Mannions job. Joe's job is to put a winner on the court. If we start out 20-10 next year, fans will get excited and come to see whats happening with this team. Trading Bynum or Maxiell for a draft pick or some other teams garbage was not going to excite any fans into coming to games that weren't already interested in coming lol

If we start next year with the same exact team, or with only marginal improvements roster-wise, THEN you can call out Joe. But right now its ridiculously premature, when he's spent the whole year clearing capspace with the intent of adding pieces this summer, and its still only February.

You contradicted yourself here.

Ultimately, a winning team will bring the fans. Thats about it. If Gores wants to fill the Palace, he's going to go to Dumars to improve the team -- not Mannions.

No, I didn't contradict myself. You just completely misunderstood my post.

The OP said "Joe has lost the ability to excite a franchise", implying he should be making trades just to excite fans and create a buzz about the team. But that's Mannions job to create marketing buzz. Its not Joe's job to make trades just to excite fans. Its Joe's job to make trades that result in wins. When that happens, fans will come to games to see winning basketball.

In other words, Joe's not going to draw in fans if they are losing, no matter what sexy name he trades for. However, Mannion is supposed to to draw in fans regardless of if they are winning or losing, through marketing, halftime entertainment, etc. Thats what he is paid for. Hence me saying its Mannions job to excite fans, not Joe's. Its Joe's job to win. If they get excited about winning, that's just a byproduct, but he's not being paid specifically to excite fans.

I'm not just talking about trades. I'm saying Dumars has completely run this team into the ground. The only thing that is keeping him from being run out of town was the Drummond pick.

[King Bugs]

The Palace will continue to be empty and the Pistons will continue to be dreadfully boring to the casual fan as long we're losing, have no star, and play an uninteresting style of basketball (if you can call it that).

After 2009 I have no faith left in Joe and he's done very little after that to make me feel anything, but uneasy about this upcoming offseason. We have a whole lot of money in another underwhelming FA class and we're interested in signing trash like Gerald Henderson?

Let's just say I'm terrified.

[Blkbrd671]

honestly when we went on that 4-5 game win streak, you could clearly see and hear more fans in the stands, we're talking minimal amounts, but if we can get our boys back to winning. Fans will show up. Additionally i really think not moving to Downtown detroit was a mistake. There's more of a market there

[joseph mamah]

The one trade, now that I think about that didn't happen (and I'm fine with) is Will Bynum.

No one will have the chemistry he has with Drummond. I hope we somehow resign him at 2 yr/ 6 million deal (3 mil a year) - obviously would like it to be cheaper if possible. That's as high as I'd go.

He is a perfect backup PG and has absolutely perfected the lob. His penetration will always leave Drummond open for moster dunks.

Think about it. It's Stuckey (cut-his salary, it's only 4 mil if cut or find a trade), Maxiell, and Villanueva (amnesty or trade) that need to go. Maggette will expire too.

We can afford Bynum as a backup.

If we let him walk, watch Drummond's game be affected a bit.

if Bynums the backup point going forward then whats BKs role going to be if we resign JC? which from all reports seems to be Dumars intention.

[MrBigShot]

^I don't see why they couldn't move in the future, and yeah...we need to get back to winning. This off-season is make or break for Joe D. He is the cap space and assets. Hopefully he does better than 2009. I don't think I can take watching anymore losing basketball after this year.

[Han Solo]

The one trade, now that I think about that didn't happen (and I'm fine with) is Will Bynum.

No one will have the chemistry he has with Drummond. I hope we somehow resign him at 2 yr/ 6 million deal (3 mil a year) - obviously would like it to be cheaper if possible. That's as high as I'd go.

He is a perfect backup PG and has absolutely perfected the lob. His penetration will always leave Drummond open for moster dunks.

Think about it. It's Stuckey (cut-his salary, it's only 4 mil if cut or find a trade), Maxiell, and Villanueva (amnesty or trade) that need to go. Maggette will expire too.

We can afford Bynum as a backup.

If we let him walk, watch Drummond's game be affected a bit.

if Bynums the backup point going forward then whats BKs role going to be if we resign JC? which from all reports seems to be Dumars intention.

I'm with you on that. Let's be honest here though. Bynum helps our future (Drummond) more than anyone on the team. You find a way. He's been good this year. Pistons fans seem too afraid to admit it. He's even been dominant at times. That's a fact. Penetration for a Drummond Dunk or Pick n Roll with a lob to Dre is a beautiful thing.

[GSR121]

Bad team, bad economy, and one year after a lock out. It is no wonder attendance is down, but attendance is down at the concerts too, not only at the Palace but all over Michigan. Bob Seger did not even sell out yet, last time he was here he sold out in 6 min.. Not sure whats going on with people not going to anything right now. The one thing is that the new ownership was targeting the 26-36 year old age group as the (core ticket holders" because that is the demographic that has money in L.A.. That is not the case in Michigan! That age group is not the one with the money here! They have realized this and are changing slowly.

As far as the team, I am not too disappointed we did not make any trades. As I look at the ones that were made nothing stands out as "huge". I am not sure if we use the capspace in the off season for free agents or to facilitate trades. Not allot of guys in FA that I am too interested in.

As far as moving downtown, that was never really an option. It has been talked about before on here. Gores owns the Palace, so he gets the money from the parking, luxury boxes, and concessions. The proposed stadium downtown would be owned by the city, that means the city gets those revenues as they do at the Joe now. Also, Gores has his own staff of workers and pays them directly, the Joe (and proposed new arena) is staffed by city workers that Olympia entertainment pays the city for at a mark up. Also, the Palace cost Gores too much money to buy to leave vacant, and with out a sports team it is not financially viable. Factor in that 80% of the Pistons season ticket/box owners are from northern Oakland/ southern Genesee counties and the picture should be clear. In Auburn Hills the Palace is the only game in town, Move downtown and there is competition everywhere you look.