Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity

[Indomitable]

-thabo turned into taj. that worked out well for us.
-tyrus turned into our charlotte pick. that worked out well for us. (how has tyrus been since then?)
-need to dump kirk to go after the 2010 FA class. if we refused to dump kirk to make that attempt, the backlash would be 100x more severe. at least we tried our best.
-kyle- ill give you that one, that pissed me off, although i understand why. (we need kirk more than kyle right now)
-omer- that one too, although i understand why. (the new CBA shafted us more than any team)

None of those deals made were deals designed around trading for a better basketball player at the time. Dumping Kirk was necessary for 2010, but it was more financially motivated to get under the cap more.

So again, I ask, when was the last time the Bulls made a basketball-motivated trade that was designed to make us better immediately? You don't think it's a bit strange that Paxson hasn't made a clear-cut non-draft related basketball deal in 10 years as the GM?

Not even just that, but the Bulls are Lovie Smith-Jerry Angelo-esque at their ineptitude in improving the one flaw that's held the Bulls back for 10 years: offense. They haven't improved it a lick. Lovie and Angelo got fired because of it. If Reinsdorf wasn't completely loyal to Paxson, things might've been shaken up here too.

QFT

[bullsnewdynasty]

Derrick Rose is the only reason why the Bulls are even a relevant NBA team. It's funny how people are turning on him after some comments that he didn't even make.

And by the way, you all criticizing him should just jump off the bandwagon right now. Just don't bother coming back when he's dominating the league again.

[jumpmanjay]

This front office man I tell you. Let's get it right this time Gar/Pax. Bulls nation is depending on you.

OK, let's think about this. The Bulls just can't go up to Minnesota and say "Hey, Reggie Rose isn't happy. We are going to have to take Kevin Love from you."

An opportunity has to come up.

What Cleveland did is they ignored reality. They just decided that they had to keep Lebron happy so they did the first thing available to them. End result? Larry Hughes for $12M per year and the corpse of Antawn Jamison.

The Bulls can't do that or at least, I hope they don't. As such, we need a little patience.

That being said, the next time a top 15 player becomes available, the Bulls need to:
- Be in a position to take on salary by having expiring contracts
- Be willing to part with a ton outside of Rose and Noah
If Love gets traded and the Bulls don't get him, I'm going to be leading the mob. I'm not going to throw the team under the bus for missing out on JJ Reddick and his expiring contract.

and the rumors of him seeking 10m/year extension (!)

[WinCity]

I get that but even with an owner who is willing to spend like Prokhorov, he still hasn't assembled a team that can compete with Miami or OKC. Hell, I'd even go as far as to say the Nets at full strength are worse than Chicago at full strength. So just because your owner is willing to spend doesn't really mean much if the actual players aren't available. Assembling teams like Miami and OKC is not easy and usually takes a fair amount of luck and timing. Frankly, both teams are anomalies in their own right and its HIGHLY unlikely any other team will surpass them in the next couple years.

Dude I am very clearly saying that it takes good GMing as well as willingness to spend. As I said thre are exceptions to the rule, but most long standing title contenders are also spenders. Obviously luck is a factor. SA is on the map because they got lucky enough to get Duncan because of a lost season due to Robinsons injury. If Robinson never gets hurt SA never becomes a dynasty. Think about that. Pretty much the same thing happened here in a lost season in which Skiles flamed out and then bam 1.7%. SA then followed up by getting Parker and Ginbolbi where was just awesome scouting, GMing and coaching, but also at least partly luck. I think the Bulls have had some pretty good strokes of luck in getting Rose, Taj and Butler, as well as perhaps Mirotic. But they also have excellent GMing. Now you look at OKC and MIA they have fantastic GMing going for them. But teams that are able to build with low salary typically due so out of necessity and frankly most teams that try that route aren't successful at all because of a lack of luck and good GMing.

Why are the Bulls trying the small market route when they aren't a small market? Why aren't they fully availing themselves of their resources as a big market team, with one of the most celebrated brands in all sports, and building to their utmost? This to me is the real pressing issue here not whether or not Reggie freaking Rose spoiled an already lost season and hurt the feeling of some players. Big picture guys. Big picture.

[Mech Engineer]

No it hasn't. Nothing's changed with Derrick's image. But like the comments Wade made in 2010, Reggie might have put another black eye on the Bulls FO.

I think Derrick's image is actually better with this message. He looks like a big boy who wants to win in a tough league and the fans will appreciate him more for that. As somebody wrote earlier there is a lot of gap between being an angel to Dwight or some other stupid superstar.

It is not like they were going to attract the next available superstar in FA based on Bulls history. If they get one, it is going to be because of that guy wanting to play with Derrick more than admiring Reinsdorf or Paxson ability to spend or build a winner.

[bullsnewdynasty]

Red,
The Bulls didn't become contenders until 2010/2011, which was Rose's 3rd year in the league. And the deals done prior to/during the summer of 2010 was to clear cap space in order to build a contender. Bron/Wade/Bosh simply didn't come to Chicago.

The Bulls still went from a .500 team to a 60 win team.

Salary dumping Korver (and Brewer)? That had a lot to do with a new CBA and Rose's own contract going from $6.99M in 2010/2011 to $16.79M in 2012/2013. Rose's own salary took a $10M jump.

Not saying Rose isn't a max player, but as far as a salary cap goes...if you want the $10M back to keep Korver and Brewer, look in Rose's checking account. If you are saying they should have not signed Hinrich or Rip...that is a different story. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Right. Now maybe you can explain why the Bulls made no moves to improve themselves when they were legitimate contenders in Rose's MVP year.

[League Circles]

The aggressive trades that the Bulls have made in the Pax era to get better are:

1) trading Jalen, whose game was ruining the team, for Antonio Davis, who was as responsible as anyone for our cultural turnaround. Davis was the best player in the deal at the time.

2) trading a future first for the pick to take Luol Deng

3) trading Curry for a great haul

4) trading Noc, Gooden, etc to get Salmons and Miller, the two best players in the trade who then helped us get into the playoffs.

5) trading Kirk to go for it all in free agency

6) trading Tyrus to go for it all in free agency

Just because a trade doesn't help you immediately doesn't mean it's not done to make you better. People like Reggie Rose and 50%+ of our posters don't understand that every transaction affects the team 5 years into the future. Most deals that make you better immediately make you worse down the road, to a greater extent than they make you better today. In general, the teams that trade the most are bad teams IMO. If a team wants to make a trade with you, that's a red flag that you shouldn't make the trade, unless your trading surplus for need and the other team is too, and those trades are ultra rare.

[Ice the knees]

All those trades brought us right back to having essentially the same starting lineup we had 3 years ago when we were the 8th seed. I guess those trades didn't really make us all that much better.

[LobosJordan]

I get that but even with an owner who is willing to spend like Prokhorov, he still hasn't assembled a team that can compete with Miami or OKC. Hell, I'd even go as far as to say the Nets at full strength are worse than Chicago at full strength. So just because your owner is willing to spend doesn't really mean much if the actual players aren't available. Assembling teams like Miami and OKC is not easy and usually takes a fair amount of luck and timing. Frankly, both teams are anomalies in their own right and its HIGHLY unlikely any other team will surpass them in the next couple years.

Dude I am very clearly saying that it takes good GMing as well as willingness to spend. As I said thre are exceptions to the rule, but most long standing title contenders are also spenders. Obviously luck is a factor. SA is on the map because they got lucky enough to get Duncan because of a lost season due to Robinsons injury. If Robinson never gets hurt SA never becomes a dynasty. Think about that. Pretty much the same thing happened here in a lost season in which Skiles flamed out and then bam 1.7%. SA then followed up by getting Parker and Ginbolbi where was just awesome scouting, GMing and coaching, but also at least partly luck. I think the Bulls have had some pretty good strokes of luck in getting Rose, Taj and Butler, as well as perhaps Mirotic. But they also have excellent GMing. Now you look at OKC and MIA they have fantastic GMing going for them. But teams that are able to build with low salary typically due so out of necessity and frankly most teams that try that route aren't successful at all because of a lack of luck and good GMing.

Why are the Bulls trying the small market route when they aren't a small market? Why aren't they fully availing themselves of their resources as a big market team, with one of the most celebrated brands in all sports, and building to their utmost? This to me is the real pressing issue here not whether or not Reggie freaking Rose spoiled an already lost season and hurt the feeling of some players. Big picture guys. Big picture.

I really don't think it's Jerry. The GM decides the direction the team takes. The Bulls were anything but a small market type of team under Jerry Krause. He was a very aggressive GM. Maybe too aggressive and too confident in his own abilities.

[nitetrain8603]

I think there is a serious lack of appreciation for Rose's position.

The guy was born in this town and his brand needs this town. He cannot ask for a trade, ever. He is in the unique spot where the franchise has all the leverage...He needed to do something.

The fact that the Bulls pretty much patted him on the back, told him that Noah and Deng are good enough, and the big addition in 5 years has been Boozer would leave a bad taste in my mouth too.

Can he trust the FO or does he need to send a message? If the end result is a move to get real talent, not just glorified role players, then Rose wins...we all do.

There are plenty of teams, and fanbases that would love to have Rose, namely LA.

Absolutely. I'm just saying that players use the "trade me" talk as a way to gain leverage. Rose really cannot go with that approach. Rose needs Chicago.

No he doesn't. I was just in LA this past weekend wearing my DRose shirt on my way in. You would be amazed at how many different people love and adore him. And it's not because he's from Chicago, but because of how exciting he is. I even asked a few of them what they thought of Derrick and every person I asked told me he's their favorite player that doesn't player for their team(Lakers/Clippers). Rose is beloved, believe that. He can go to a franchise like the Lakers, Clippers or even play for Minnesota and he will always be loved. If you think his image is taking a hit, you are naive. It's the Bulls who are taking the PR hit considering their superstar player is indirectly calling them out while rehabbing to play for them.

[The Kane]

I don't think Rose has changed all that much. Remember after we lost to Cleveland in 2010, before or during that offseason banaza of FA's, Rose said he didn't need a LeBron or superstar, but rather, "Just get me one guy." Presumably he meant a very good player, or All-Star. Some rumors were he wanted Joe Johnson.

People at first thought Boozer was that 'one guy', but clearly he is not. Not in the 2011 playoffs, not in 2012 when Rose went down and clearly not this year.

The rest of the money was spent on Korver, Brewer, Watson, productive players who are now all gone. Then Bogans, who Rose obviously wanted upgraded.

The Bulls have still yet to get Rose that one guy. They still have Noah and Deng who were here before Rose, and Noah has improved some, and Deng has been up and down, but the Bulls have yet to add one significant piece since Rose got here to make the team better.

The highest PER player on our team in Derrick absence, is Nate Robinson, who has massive problems on defense and remains erratic on offense despite his good year. And will probably be gone next year. This is an embarrassing lack of talent adding.

Our starting lineup in Game 1 vs Cleveland in 2010 was Rose/Hinrich/Deng/Gibson/Noah.

This could be our starting lineup next year!!!!

Gibson should probably be starting again right now, over Boozer. And Kirk is about as good as Rip or Marco, our SG options. This team has not advanced talent wise hardly at all, other than players already here like Taj, and of course Rose himself, carrying it all.

This, this, 1000X this! The fact that we WILL see that lineup next year is inexcusable and IMO complete disrespect to D. Rose. Reggie had every right to say the things he said, as they are the truth.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Derrick Rose is the only reason why the Bulls are even a relevant NBA team. It's funny how people are turning on him after some comments that he didn't even make.

And by the way, you all criticizing him should just jump off the bandwagon right now. Just don't bother coming back when he's dominating the league again.

There is no damn bandwagon, in fact if people are only here for Rose and not the bulls as a whole, THEY are the ones who need to leave.

And Rose is an important piece no doubt, but Thibs had just as much to do with our success as Rose does.

[Ice the knees]

@nitetrain

When I say "Rose needs Chicago" I don't mean to imply that he wouldn't be loved elsewhere. I do however think that a big part of his brand and image is him being the humble hometown kid willing to lay it all on the line for his city. It's a big part of his story.

[League Circles]

Right. Now maybe you can explain why the Bulls made no moves to improve themselves when they were legitimate contenders in Rose's MVP year.

The same reason the best team in the league almost never makes trades at the deadline???

Did Miami make a deal to improve? Did the 72-10 Bulls? Trades are generally more for bad teams than good. What trades did the Heat make to make them better after their title before 2010? They GAVE AWAY a recent #2 pick. OKC played in the finals last year and traded an all-star young guard for a one year rental of Kevin Martin and a couple picks. Did anyone criticize them?

Again, anyone who is bashing Derrick over this, why haven't you bashed Paxson and Pippen for saying similar things over the last few years?

[jumpmanjay]

Big I totally agree. As an African-American who grew up modestly I think that many of the posters are out of line. I hate to make this a racial but just looking at this thread you can almost tell who’s who and who they really are. People don’t realize that Reggie is like Derrick’s father he Alan and Dwayne have helped to mold Derrick and helped him to survive and make it out of Englewood to become the man he is today. Derrick will never turn on Reggie, from Beasley to Simeon to Memphis, Reggie has always been there to guide Derrick, and would not do anything to intentionally harm him. What Reggie said is 100% true but because he is some “hood from the street who can’t read” he’s totally out of line.

how is this in any form race-related?

[kuly1990]

[quote="bullsnewdynasty"]Derrick Rose is the only reason why the Bulls are even a relevant NBA team. It's funny how people are turning on him after some comments that he didn't even make.

And by the way, you all criticizing him should just jump off the bandwagon right now. Just don't bother coming back when he's dominating the league again.
yeah thats way are we so bad this without him

[Tenchi Ryu]

Big I totally agree. As an African-American who grew up modestly I think that many of the posters are out of line. I hate to make this a racial but just looking at this thread you can almost tell who’s who and who they really are. People don’t realize that Reggie is like Derrick’s father he Alan and Dwayne have helped to mold Derrick and helped him to survive and make it out of Englewood to become the man he is today. Derrick will never turn on Reggie, from Beasley to Simeon to Memphis, Reggie has always been there to guide Derrick, and would not do anything to intentionally harm him. What Reggie said is 100% true but because he is some “hood from the street who can’t read” he’s totally out of line.

how is this in any form race-related?

Hell I'm a middle class black guy from the south side and thought it was over the line.

[Indomitable]

@nitetrain

When I say "Rose needs Chicago" I don't mean to imply that he wouldn't be loved elsewhere. I do however think that a big part of his brand and image is him being the humble hometown kid willing to lay it all on the line for his city. It's a big part of his story.

Just like Lebron. Things change.

[BahamaBull]

Derrick Rose is the only reason why the Bulls are even a relevant NBA team. It's funny how people are turning on him after some comments that he didn't even make.

And by the way, you all criticizing him should just jump off the bandwagon right now. Just don't bother coming back when he's dominating the league again.

The Bulls will always be relevant because of #23 and its 6 titles...Even when the baby Bulls were here we had the UC sold out everynight...

This was Reggies opinion, we all have to agree based on conversations he had with Derrick...Reggie Rose is a nobody and really dumb so I think we should worry because he have influence on Derricks opinion...The way Rose is treating his comeback is wrong IMO...Thats why Im little dissapointed with him...I think he should be on the bench just like any other injuried player...I think he should talk to the media more often...Just be real...If he lacks confidence just go ahead and say it...Theres nothing wrong with that...But theres too much drama on this front and Im really getting tired of that...We all know he is clinicaly healed...

And then his brother says if this team is not competitive he wont comeback this season..WTF!!! He is getting paid max sallary...He should play regardless whos on the team...I dont care if it is Derrick with 11 NBDLs players...Thats his job and he should just go out there and play...Im really affraid Derricks circle turned him to a diva just like Lebron...

[WinCity]

I get that but even with an owner who is willing to spend like Prokhorov, he still hasn't assembled a team that can compete with Miami or OKC. Hell, I'd even go as far as to say the Nets at full strength are worse than Chicago at full strength. So just because your owner is willing to spend doesn't really mean much if the actual players aren't available. Assembling teams like Miami and OKC is not easy and usually takes a fair amount of luck and timing. Frankly, both teams are anomalies in their own right and its HIGHLY unlikely any other team will surpass them in the next couple years.

Dude I am very clearly saying that it takes good GMing as well as willingness to spend. As I said thre are exceptions to the rule, but most long standing title contenders are also spenders. Obviously luck is a factor. SA is on the map because they got lucky enough to get Duncan because of a lost season due to Robinsons injury. If Robinson never gets hurt SA never becomes a dynasty. Think about that. Pretty much the same thing happened here in a lost season in which Skiles flamed out and then bam 1.7%. SA then followed up by getting Parker and Ginbolbi where was just awesome scouting, GMing and coaching, but also at least partly luck. I think the Bulls have had some pretty good strokes of luck in getting Rose, Taj and Butler, as well as perhaps Mirotic. But they also have excellent GMing. Now you look at OKC and MIA they have fantastic GMing going for them. But teams that are able to build with low salary typically due so out of necessity and frankly most teams that try that route aren't successful at all because of a lack of luck and good GMing.

Why are the Bulls trying the small market route when they aren't a small market? Why aren't they fully availing themselves of their resources as a big market team, with one of the most celebrated brands in all sports, and building to their utmost? This to me is the real pressing issue here not whether or not Reggie freaking Rose spoiled an already lost season and hurt the feeling of some players. Big picture guys. Big picture.

I really don't think it's Jerry. The GM decides the direction the team takes. The Bulls were anything but a small market type of team under Jerry Krause. He was a very aggressive GM. Maybe too aggressive and too confident in his own abilities.

I am talking about the spending philosophy i.e. avoiding the tax like the plague. Thats all JR.