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Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity

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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1321 » by nitetrain8603 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:00 pm

Gar Paxdorf wrote:The aggressive trades that the Bulls have made in the Pax era to get better are:

1) trading Jalen, whose game was ruining the team, for Antonio Davis, who was as responsible as anyone for our cultural turnaround. Davis was the best player in the deal at the time.

That was a salary dump of Jalen for shorter deals.

2) trading a future first for the pick to take Luol Deng


We suggested non draft day trades. A future first is not giving up a whole lot either.

3) trading Curry for a great haul


Though it worked out positively for the Bulls, that was as big a financial issue as any. The Bulls wanted to keep Curry, but he couldn't get insured for his heart condition and the Bulls didn't want to have to pay out his contract if insurance wouldn't cover the instance in which he couldn't play anymore. Bulls got a great haul, but that was more because of Isiah's stupidity.

4) trading Noc, Gooden, etc to get Salmons and Miller, the two best players in the trade who then helped us get into the playoffs.


That was done as a salary dump of Nocioni for shorter contracts. No one expected to get much out of Miller and Salmons. Salmons exploded, luckily, and Miller was better than expected.

5) trading Kirk to go for it all in free agency


I'll give them that, because no way they trade Kirk without trying to sign big time FAs. But it was a draft day trade and pure salary dump.

6) trading Tyrus to go for it all in free agency


They traded Tyrus so they weren't left with nothing when he left. He wasn't traded so they could go for it all in FA, it was moreso to get a pick out of him since he was as inconsistent the day we traded him away as the day he first played.

Just because a trade doesn't help you immediately doesn't mean it's not done to make you better. People like Reggie Rose and 50%+ of our posters don't understand that every transaction affects the team 5 years into the future. Most deals that make you better immediately make you worse down the road, to a greater extent than they make you better today. In general, the teams that trade the most are bad teams IMO. If a team wants to make a trade with you, that's a red flag that you shouldn't make the trade, unless your trading surplus for need and the other team is too, and those trades are ultra rare.


I listed on Page 86 potential deals which could've been done which could've helped the Bulls. They were not aggressive in any of them and instead waited for the perfect superstar with the perfect situation which will never come.

Someone else described it best. The Bulls are a reactive(a poor one at that) franchise who wants to save dough as opposed to a proactive one which gets creative.
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1322 » by Ice the knees » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:01 pm

Indomitable wrote:
Ice the knees wrote:@nitetrain

When I say "Rose needs Chicago" I don't mean to imply that he wouldn't be loved elsewhere. I do however think that a big part of his brand and image is him being the humble hometown kid willing to lay it all on the line for his city. It's a big part of his story.

Just like Lebron. Things change.


There is a big difference in maturity. Maybe Rose leaves eventually but the process will not be the same. Rose has stuck it out for the last 3 years. He wanted another guy back in 2010 and he's still here.

The FO dropped the ball a bit. I know us posters say "Yeah, but who could we have gotten"...I'm sure Rose has some ideas
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1323 » by The Explorer » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:01 pm

DuckIII, stop stating its obvious that the comments made by Reggie came from Derrick. Its not obvious at all, and you can't state it as fact no matter what arbitrary analogy you use. As I mentioned before, its very possible that Reggie has grown tired of Derrick doing the vast majority of work on this team, as an overprotective older brother and manager of his career, he spoke out against it. Neither you nor I know the true motives behind Reggie's comments. A number of explanations are possible.
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1324 » by Indomitable » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:02 pm

Nite
The Bulls are a naturally conservative organization
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1325 » by bullsnewdynasty » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:02 pm

kuly1990 wrote:yeah thats way are we so bad this without him :lol:


Without Rose, the Bulls are in NBA hell and a perennial 1st/2nd round exit, a la the Skiles era Bulls.
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1326 » by nitetrain8603 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:02 pm

Ice the knees wrote:@nitetrain

When I say "Rose needs Chicago" I don't mean to imply that he wouldn't be loved elsewhere. I do however think that a big part of his brand and image is him being the humble hometown kid willing to lay it all on the line for his city. It's a big part of his story.


The story can change easily though. I mean, Adidas took his injury and spun it into a huge positive and marketing campaign. He doesn't need the Bulls because there would be every other team willing to pick him up if he were ever to become available.
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1327 » by panthermark » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:04 pm

bullsnewdynasty wrote:
panthermark wrote:Red,
The Bulls didn't become contenders until 2010/2011, which was Rose's 3rd year in the league. And the deals done prior to/during the summer of 2010 was to clear cap space in order to build a contender. Bron/Wade/Bosh simply didn't come to Chicago.

The Bulls still went from a .500 team to a 60 win team.

Salary dumping Korver (and Brewer)? That had a lot to do with a new CBA and Rose's own contract going from $6.99M in 2010/2011 to $16.79M in 2012/2013. Rose's own salary took a $10M jump.

Not saying Rose isn't a max player, but as far as a salary cap goes...if you want the $10M back to keep Korver and Brewer, look in Rose's checking account. If you are saying they should have not signed Hinrich or Rip...that is a different story. Hindsight is always 20/20.


Right. Now maybe you can explain why the Bulls made no moves to improve themselves when they were legitimate contenders in Rose's MVP year.


You mean the year the Bulls led the league in wins?
That same year said team was just put together?

That is hindsight GM'ing at its finest.

The Bulls FO kept the top nine players from that 2010/11 team(Rose, Deng, Boozer, Noah, Watson, Brewer, Korver, and Asik)...and added Rip Hamilton for 2011/12. With Rose being injured part of the season, the Bulls led the east in wins again (and tied in most wins overall).

You are basically asking (in hindsight) why the Bulls didn't break up one of the best (and youngest) teams in the league that was just put together.
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1328 » by Indomitable » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:04 pm

charity stripe wrote:DuckIII, stop stating its obvious that the comments made by Reggie came from Derrick. Its not obvious at all, and you can't state it as fact no matter what arbitrary analogy you use. As I mentioned before, its very possible that Reggie has grown tired of Derrick doing the vast majority of work on this team, as an overprotective older brother and manager of his career, he spoke out against it. Neither you nor I know the true motives behind Reggie's comments. A number of explanations are possible.

Duck thinks Lebron lost. He got his ring. It did not happen in Cleveland but so what.

Howard probably will recover and get back to being a great player.
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1329 » by LobosJordan » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:05 pm

WinCity wrote:I am talking about the spending philosophy i.e. avoiding the tax like the plague. Thats all JR.

I still don't blame him. The Bulls were never in any kind of position to spend crazy money to win a championship the past decade. And the GM's never made significant moves to improve the Bulls situation or outlook. I think Jerry would and will pay for a championship level team.
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1330 » by Ice the knees » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:05 pm

nitetrain8603 wrote:
Ice the knees wrote:@nitetrain

When I say "Rose needs Chicago" I don't mean to imply that he wouldn't be loved elsewhere. I do however think that a big part of his brand and image is him being the humble hometown kid willing to lay it all on the line for his city. It's a big part of his story.


The story can change easily though. I mean, Adidas took his injury and spun it into a huge positive and marketing campaign. He doesn't need the Bulls because there would be every other team willing to pick him up if he were ever to become available.


Sigh, I'm talking about his image while he's here. He can't say he wants to be traded so he (they) is saying he needs more help.

This is really the only leverage he has.
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1331 » by Tenchi Ryu » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:05 pm

bullsnewdynasty wrote:
kuly1990 wrote:yeah thats way are we so bad this without him :lol:


Without Rose, the Bulls are in NBA hell and a perennial 1st/2nd round exit.

WTF? Hell even without Derrick we have a legit shot at the ECF. Other than Miami, there is absolutely no team in the east unbeatable without Rose, Indiana at the most.

FFS, we are 2 games from leading our division
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1332 » by nitetrain8603 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:06 pm

Indomitable wrote:Nite
The Bulls are a naturally conservative organization

And it's a bad mix because they are conservative, lack creativity and won't spend. Put that together and you get the Bulls stuck in a bad position with their superstar.
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1333 » by BIGGIEsmalls 23 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:07 pm

charity stripe wrote:DuckIII, stop stating its obvious that the comments made by Reggie came from Derrick. Its not obvious at all, and you can't state it as fact no matter what arbitrary analogy you use. As I mentioned before, its very possible that Reggie has grown tired of Derrick doing the vast majority of work on this team, as an overprotective older brother and manager of his career, he spoke out against it. Neither you nor I know the true motives behind Reggie's comments. A number of explanations are possible.

Regarding this, I wholeheartedly agree with D-Trey.

Reggie is an extension of Rose & the statement being made yesterday after the deadline is no accident. Personally, I believe the Bulls passed on a trade that none of us knows about.
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1334 » by jumpmanjay » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:08 pm

Gar Paxdorf wrote:Again, anyone who is bashing Derrick over this, why haven't you bashed Paxson and Pippen for saying similar things over the last few years?

because rose is one of the players.

let's put it this way- say you are one guy on a team of 10 salesmen. say you are all pretty close and all enjoy working with each other, but you are very aware of who the best salesmen are. from time to time, some things come up and you refer some sales to the other guys on your team. everyone does this. now lets say the quarterly numbers arent where the boss wanted them. in a team meeting, all of a sudden, the top-grossing salesman says "well, bob and mike are doing well, but its not enough."

how do you think thats going to affect team morale? you think the "peon" salesmen would ever pass something on to the top-grossing guy ever again?

they are all human, with feelings logical or not.

pax and pippen and all of us can say this because we are not on the front line. listen, we all know we need to field a better team. NO ONE is arguing against that. we are all on the same page in those regards. the problem was with the delivery. the timing and the publicity of it all was bad. very bad.
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1335 » by Ice the knees » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:08 pm

Tenchi Ryu wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:
kuly1990 wrote:yeah thats way are we so bad this without him :lol:


Without Rose, the Bulls are in NBA hell and a perennial 1st/2nd round exit.

WTF? Hell even without Derrick we have a legit shot at the ECF. Other than Miami, there is absolutely no team in the east unbeatable without Rose, Indiana at the most.

FFS, we are 2 games from leading our division


I think you are leaving the seeding out of the equation. Bulls as a 4/5 seed really don't have a shot at the ECF. They aren't beating Miami in round 2. And probably not a healthy Indy.

If the Bulls end up a 2 seed and have to go through say the Bucks and Nets to get to the ECF, maybe. But I doubt they end up the 2 seed.
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1336 » by Indomitable » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:08 pm

nitetrain8603 wrote:
Indomitable wrote:Nite
The Bulls are a naturally conservative organization

And it's a bad mix because they are conservative, lack creativity and won't spend. Put that together and you get the Bulls stuck in a bad position with their superstar.

They will probably fail just like with the last 3 rebuilds.
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1337 » by Wharton Alum 08 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:08 pm

Tenchi Ryu wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:
kuly1990 wrote:yeah thats way are we so bad this without him :lol:


Without Rose, the Bulls are in NBA hell and a perennial 1st/2nd round exit.

WTF? Hell even without Derrick we have a legit shot at the ECF. Other than Miami, there is absolutely no team in the east unbeatable without Rose, Indiana at the most.

FFS, we are 2 games from leading our division


No they don't and if Derrick sits out even longer this team will start to show itself more and more that it's not capable as the upcoming schedule isn't very forgiving.
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1338 » by nitetrain8603 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:08 pm

panthermark wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:
panthermark wrote:Red,
The Bulls didn't become contenders until 2010/2011, which was Rose's 3rd year in the league. And the deals done prior to/during the summer of 2010 was to clear cap space in order to build a contender. Bron/Wade/Bosh simply didn't come to Chicago.

The Bulls still went from a .500 team to a 60 win team.

Salary dumping Korver (and Brewer)? That had a lot to do with a new CBA and Rose's own contract going from $6.99M in 2010/2011 to $16.79M in 2012/2013. Rose's own salary took a $10M jump.

Not saying Rose isn't a max player, but as far as a salary cap goes...if you want the $10M back to keep Korver and Brewer, look in Rose's checking account. If you are saying they should have not signed Hinrich or Rip...that is a different story. Hindsight is always 20/20.


Right. Now maybe you can explain why the Bulls made no moves to improve themselves when they were legitimate contenders in Rose's MVP year.


You mean the year the Bulls led the league in wins?
That same year said team was just put together?

That is hindsight GM'ing at its finest.

The Bulls FO kept the top nine players from that 2010/11 team(Rose, Deng, Boozer, Noah, Watson, Brewer, Korver, and Asik)...and added Rip Hamilton for 2011/12. With Rose being injured part of the season, the Bulls led the east in wins again (and tied in most wins overall).

You are basically asking (in hindsight) why the Bulls didn't break up one of the best (and youngest) teams in the league that was just put together.


Moreso asking if the Bulls didn't make improvements from that 2010-11 team, but were a 60 win team, why did they revert back to their 2009-2010 team?
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1339 » by The Explorer » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:08 pm

Sam Smith mailbag

What are your thoughts on Reggie Rose's comments regarding the Bulls not putting anything around Derrick? I know nothing about Reggie Rose or his relationship with his brother. I'm curious if we should put any stock in what he's saying, or completely ignore it. Derrick has never made any comments remotely close to this in his entire Bulls career. I would assume he can't wait to get out there and compete with his teammates as soon as is reasonably possible, but maybe I'm wrong. One of the things fans love about Derrick is that he not only says all the right things, but also seems so genuine when he says it. If Reggie's comments don't reflect Derrick's thoughts at all, it must be frustrating for Derrick to see himself portrayed this way by his own family.

Dan Michler


Sam: I assume you saw this released by Rose Thursday night:

“I have always felt that the Bulls organization’s goals have been the same as mine and that is to bring another championship to this city.”

Reggie also got it pretty good on the TNT halftime show during the Bulls blowout loss to the Heat from Charles Barkley, who said: “His brother needs to shut the hell up, number one. Listen man, I’m going to make one of the rules, when I’m king of the world — which is never gonna happen — hey man, we don’t care about your mom, your dad, your brothers and sisters. Stop tweeting. As Herm Edwards would say, ‘Don’t push send.’ Nobody cares what you think. If a reporter calls you, he wants you to say something bad about somebody else, so don’t be a damn idiot. Stop tweeting about coaches and players and stuff. Let the famous person be famous. You just shut the hell up.”

I think it was a surprise to everyone, and perhaps Reggie as well given the public and media reaction. There’s an old newspaper saying, “Don’t screw up on a slow news day.” You become the headline. Or the night of a blowout loss as it was for the Bulls to the Miami Heat Thursday. Everyone around knows how Derrick feels about his family, and his family did a great job in helping make him the person he is today. You have to give Reggie a lot of credit along with their mom. Reggie certainly would never do anything to hurt Derrick. Derrick’s story of hardship growing up and being taken care of and becoming the man he is has been a testament to that family that can be a model for so many more around the country. But no one is perfect and sometimes you have a bad day. Or say something to someone who is writing it down. Ever complain about where you work? But not to a reporter. You occasionally see stuff like this around the NBA, of family members saying something that might be embarrassing to the player out of passion or frustration or enthusiasm. It generally gets ignored, and I’d view his comments that way, more a loose moment with the media. It happens. I’m sure Derrick loves his brother, but as much as you may love a family member you don’t always have to think exactly the same. Maybe that's how Reggie Rose feels. That's OK. He's a fan, too. Sports is about debate and opinion. Would Derrick not return to play based on some pique about personnel decisions? Heck, he was playing with Tyrus, Lindsey Hunter, Anthony Roberson and Aaron Gray and you couldn't get him off the court. I don’t know what Derrick thinks, but we can only go with what he says and what he believes, and he always has said he loves his teammates and is inspired by the veterans. It was Derrick perhaps as much as anyone not pursuing other free agents in 2010, in part, because of his devotion to teammates. I haven’t gotten any sense Derrick has changed and have seen him and talked to him a fair amount the last month as he’s been around the team. The main reason the Bulls are not serious contenders this season — good, but flawed — is because Derrick is not playing. Not because the Bulls haven’t made any trades. Could they have won last season? I believe they could have. Deng and Noah are All-Stars selected by the coaches, and the Bulls made strong pitches to LeBron, Wade and Bosh in 2010. Did you want Dwight Howard? Well, they tried that, too, and Howard said Chicago wasn’t important enough for him. But I understand Reggie in a sense. We all want to be the GM. Seems like a fun job.

What do you make of Derrick’s brother Reggie and his criticism of the Bulls organization not doing enough? My opinion may not matter much but as a long time fan who follows the Bulls daily, I can’t agree with him at all. I hope Derrick will, though I doubt it, address his brother’s comments in one way or another.

Dawn Parker

Sam: It’s probably awkward for Derrick, certainly at this time. I guess you can say 29 organizations that don’t win aren’t doing enough, though some specific suggestions would have been helpful.

I was disappointed to read Reggie Rose's comments to ESPN Chicago today, in which he slammed the Bulls for standing pat at the trading deadline and said that this inactivity could be a "big factor" in Derrick's motivation to return to the court this season. Granted that Reggie stated he was not speaking for his brother. But he is Derrick's manager, and as such his comments reflect poorly on his client. They are also profoundly ungrateful to the Bulls, who in my view have gone above and beyond in shielding Derrick from pressure to return, and in giving him the privacy to recover. Moreover, they are an insult to Rose's teammates, who are hanging tough without Derrick and doing their best to give him something to return to. Between Adidas marketing the heck out of Derrick's return, and -- via some of Derrick's comments last week and Reggie's this week -- the vague whiff of entitlement starting to come from the Rose camp, increasingly it seems that the only party that will emerge from all this with its dignity intact is the Bulls organization and players. I want to believe that Derrick is still a team-first guy in the middle of all of this, and that his brother is talking out of hand. It's hard not to feel that the Bulls deserve at least that.

Mark Ullmann


Sam: I will say it sounded uncharacteristic of Reggie, who I don’t know well but always has been genial and a likeable guy. Again, I’ve gotten not the slightest indication Derrick is any different than he ever has been. You know the two best words when dealing with a family member: Apology accepted. Of course it could be something sinister. Like Woody Allen once said, “When I was kidnapped, my parents snapped into action. They rented out my room.” Maybe they want to rent out Derrick’s room.

After hearing about Reggie Rose's comments I think the Bulls may have a problem. First if you read between the lines, I wonder if this has something to do with Derick's health? Is this just posturing, because Rose isn't going to be back this season? I personally think that is the best situation for everyone, but could this just be a preemptive strike to the insane backlash from fans? The fact that these comments come from his brother and manager, I wonder if they are seeing something that leads them to believe Rose isn't going to be the player he once was. I can't imagine that his brother would leak these comments for no reason. Second it's now obvious that Rose has other people in his camp that aren't happy with what the Bulls have done to bring talent in. I think a lot of the fans including myself agree. I understand that there is little they can do, because of the salary cap, but they better get creative soon. Can you imagine what the fans will say if Rose walks in a few years? I think at this point it's very clear that LeBron is going to rule this decade. Players like Rose are either going to have to join a team that has the cap space, and can afford to bring in superstars, or hope that the Bulls can get it done.

David Naber


Sam: That perhaps is the biggest issue with Reggie’s comments that so many will read so much into what may be just a guy blowing off some steam. There seems no way seeing Derrick shoot around and run before games at this point you would seem to be able to make a comment on his future playing ability. Plus, all the reviews from the closed practices have been pretty upbeat. Not playing is another issue and the Bulls always have said they’ll err on the side of caution given Rose’s age and the future. Which is he signed a maximum deal to stay with the Bulls and they could have cap room in two years. The problem is what player are you going to get? Who are these great free agents? Josh Smith? Al Jefferson? Yes, that’s the top of the field. Rose is tied to the Bulls until the 2017-18 season, and it’s the same issue why Kobe can’t go anywhere. Kobe makes $30 million from the Lakers. If you pay him, then how can you add anyone else? Same with Rose. He’ll make $21.3 million in 2016-17. OK, say he wanted to leave. Then the other team likely couldn’t afford any other players in order to sign him. The way the luxury tax penalties are designed to level the playing field and keep teams from loading up on stars, the movement of top star players will become less and less in the future years. Unless they want to give up $10 million to $15 million per year.

Given the trade deadline ended with a thud, I was contemplating (good for the soul). I keep hearing that the Bulls need one more All-Star to surround Rose. Well, when he returns, the Bulls will have 3. Two of whom were selected by the coaches (more reliable that the fans, i.e. Garnett). They also have a top 5 certainly a top 10 power forward. Which new All-Star are we going to get? I don't see a trade-their All-Star for Teague, Butler and Radmanovic. Not fair but that's life. So we have Rose, Deng and Noah. They have James, Wade and Bosh, or Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka. Or Duncan, Parker and Ginobelli. Other than James and Durant, I like the Bulls chances. But James and Durant aren't going anywhere so I think that the Bulls are cap locked and player locked. I give the Bulls credit for putting together a great team. 2014 will be interesting but in the meantime, put on the big boy pants and go play. Did I miss something?

Greg Young


Sam: I’ll get you Reggie Rose’s number. You can call him.

I was just wondering what Rose and his people would say if he decides to sit out the year and the Bulls go on to win a title without him?

Steve Edwards


Sam: Congratulations and oops. I’m not optimistic they’ll have to worry about that, though. Certainly, Thursday’s game with Miami gave little confidence to those seeing the Bulls succeeding without Derrick.
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Re: Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity 

Post#1340 » by Ice the knees » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:08 pm

Tenchi Ryu wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:
kuly1990 wrote:yeah thats way are we so bad this without him :lol:


Without Rose, the Bulls are in NBA hell and a perennial 1st/2nd round exit.

WTF? Hell even without Derrick we have a legit shot at the ECF. Other than Miami, there is absolutely no team in the east unbeatable without Rose, Indiana at the most.

FFS, we are 2 games from leading our division


I think you are leaving the seeding out of the equation. Bulls as a 4/5 seed really don't have a shot at the ECF. They aren't beating Miami in round 2. And probably not a healthy Indy.

If the Bulls end up a 2 seed and have to go through say the Bucks and Nets to get to the ECF, maybe. But I doubt they end up the 2 seed.

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