Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity

[jumpmanjay]

People keep talking about "moves" as if there has been this abundant number of star players that could or should be playing here in Chicago. Lets list the superstars in the league today...the game changers.

Lebron
Durant
Paul
Anthony
Howard (I suppose)
Kobe
Wade
Rose
Irving (I think)
Westbrook
Griffin
Love
Harden

Now that's 13 guys...you could give or take a few more. One of those guys is already on our team. That leaves the other 12 guys as possible acquisitions. Ask your self, what "moves" were we going to make to get any of the guys on that list at the current moment? What moves were going to be made this past summer to get any of those guys?

The bottom line is that people are squawking about things that were never quite possible to begin with. The Bulls "plan" is centered more around 2014 than making knee jerk moves to satisfy a fan base or the siblings of certain players in the short term. The Bulls wanted to go after some guys in 2010 and they positioned themselves to do that. They obviously are interested in the 2014 class so that's what they are positioning for. It's just that simple.

very obvious to some of us here, but something that others are either ignorant of or choosing to ignore.

[The Kane]

If you want to win titles, you have to take risks. Obviously when taking risks you will make some bad moves. But guess what? How many titles do those teams have in the last 13 years? How many do we have?

Very notable risks taken by the FO in recent years:

1) trading Curry for draft picks

2) dumping Kirk, Tyrus, and BG to pursue free agency

3) drafting Tyrus

4) hiring VDN and Thibbs - a first time coach and a guy who is a stubborn taskmaster

5) signing Boozer

6) letting Asik go

7) signing Taj to his deal

3 I'll give you. Dumping BG was a risk, but Tyrus sucked and Hinrich was on the decline. Hiring a new coach is not a risk. Every team has to do it at some point. 5 I'll give you. 6 was a cost cutting move. 7 was a deal that might come back to bite us, but risky. When I sai making moves I mean moves that would make a huge difference like trading for Melo or Dwight, even if they wouldn't resign (Even though Melo would've played in Chicago.) This FO doesn't make moves like that. The Lakers do, which is why they have so many rings.

[WinCity]

What irritates me is that instead of informing the public, this comment feeds directly into the people who won't bother to learn what it means to have a year as important as 2010. That was the year to strike.

The casual fan thinks the Bulls can strike every year on free agents, and CHOOSE not to. This reinforces that. That bugs me. Say something knowledgeable, because it's clear you're knowledgeable. You know how strapped the Bulls are right now. If they're going to pay more tax, it has to wait. Yesterday was not that time.

Who says it was about yesterday? Not even Reggie specifically cited yesterday IIRC. Most of us are talking about a consistent pattern, a philosophy, of not spending on par with this franchises big market franchise. Now we can discuss how, or if, that can done going forward under the new CBA but no one can deny this team has taken a small market approach to spending.

they are paying the luxury tax thanks to dr1's max contract. how is that not spending? they went and signed boozer so to keep reggie rose happy. how is that not spending? they extended taj and noah. how is that not spending.

They are paying tax because in spite of their best efforts they couldnt move Rip or Booz in a cost saving move without giving up picks which in turn will become value contracts hence saving more $ down the line. Nice try.

As for the rest they have paid those guys market value, with no intention of going beyond that to pay lux tax, so its hardly proof of a big market spending approach.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

It is not about FA only, it is also about possible trades.

I personally believe that JR will spend money for a title. That's just my opinion, though. You bring up the point that's being lost in this discussion, which is trades. I feel that is the flaw that needs to be addressed.

I would not be surprised if a trade was on the table yesterday involving Boozer or Deng, but GarPax chose to err on the side of caution instead. When that trade fell through, Reggie went public.

[League Circles]

This FO doesn't make moves like that. The Lakers do, which is why they have so many rings.

No, the Lakers don't do that. The only trade they've made like that is for Gasol. They drafted Kobe and signed Shaq as a FA when they weren't good and there was no individual player max. They trade one year of an injured Bynum for one year of an injured Dwight (who I believe will leave for Dallas this summer). I mean this team traded arguably the best player since Jordan IN HIS PRIME for Lamar Odom, Brian Grant's contract, and Caron Butler, and fell from competition because of it.

The teams that actually did make the trades for Dwight both became worse because of those trades. The Lakers suck, and the Knicks were worse with Melo than before (and Amare went from being elite for the Knicks to be a horrible fit). The Knicks are only better now because of Tyson, who they signed once they FINALLY realized they needed to clear cap space. And guess what? We STILL own them.

[MVP Rose]

Does anybody actually think John Paxson would still be here had he not lucked into Rose? Actually, he probably would given jerry's loyalty, but he'd have the same reputation across the league as somebody like Colangelo. Somebody so utterly clueless at building a roster, that he needs a "co GM" to help him. A mediocre, overly conservative GM who falls in love with his own mediocre players bailed out by an incredible talent. Oh, and once you got Rose (which frankly should have never happened) you fail to put enough talent around said superstar in order to seriously compete against Miami.

You've had 4 years to find a suitable back-court partner for Rose. You've had 4 years to find somebody that can run an adequate fastbreak without **** up. 4 years to find a consistent 2nd scorer, when MULTIPLE trades were on the table to do so (i.e. Harden, Melo). An entire season to figure out what to do with Asik without losing him for peanuts. You watch Rose struggle through triple teams against Miami in 2011, and the "genius" FO move is get an aging **** player like Rip Hamilton, as if he's the difference maker. Give me a **** break. You decimate the bench INDICATING to everybody that this will be a "hold off" year with Derrick's injury...only to pay the luxury tax for Rip **** Hamilton. It's just utter incompetence and lack of having a clear direction of where to go with the franchise moving forward.

I think the FO has done some good over the years, particularly hitting on late draft picks and of course picking Rose over Beasley. Good job. But I can't look past what a crummy job they have done in terms of building around Derrick. Deng and Noah are great pieces, but it's pretty evident to anybody that watches the NBA that Deng isn't a 2nd option, possibly not even a good enough 3rd option. I could accept if the FO made a bold move like getting Melo or getting Harden and it didn't work out. At least that way they are actively trying to make the roster better. Make no mistake about it, HARDEN and MELO deals were potentially available if the Bulls wanted to get involved. They simply decided not to. #thrustforthewin

This might be the wrong place for this rant, but frankly I'm just tired of seeing Pax talked about as if he's some shrewd and aggressive GM, like Morey or Kupchak. He's average at BEST, and very much replaceable. There are a number of GMs in the league I suspect that can take Derrick Rose, two all-stars, and elite depth and turn it into a contending team with a legitimate 2nd option. People have very legitimate reasons to be pissed at the FO.

[AAU Teammate]

It is not about FA only, it is also about possible trades. I think it will be better if some posters do not make judgement calls like posters are insecure or dumb. This whole thread is a grey area and people have opinion on both sides, FYI.

I'm aware people have opinions on both sides. And I want tax payment too.

I'm just curious why people are making a hero out of Reggie Rose today? There has to be some need for a guy like that...because there are plenty of people (like Doug) who agree w/ a lot of that logic-- but are self-confident enough to admit -- hey that was bad for the organization. It shouldn't have been done.


So if you applaud Reggie, you must have some inner desire for that sort of thing. A need for it. Otherwise, why want it? It can only have negative consequences for the Bulls.

I'm not calling someone insecure as a direct insult, I'm just going with the evidence presented. This is in line with how some people NEED things like TMZ in their life now. If someone wants to tell me why the hero worship for these RR comments is needed & sensible - i'm glad to listen.

Otherwise, admit it was just a loudmouth mistake of a moment, and we can move on.

[WinCity]

It can only have negative consequences for the Bulls.

Disagree.

[[d][R][o][s][e]]

If you want to win titles, you have to take risks. Obviously when taking risks you will make some bad moves. But guess what? How many titles do those teams have in the last 13 years? How many do we have?

Very notable risks taken by the FO in recent years:

1) trading Curry for draft picks

2) dumping Kirk, Tyrus, and BG to pursue free agency

3) drafting Tyrus

4) hiring VDN and Thibbs - a first time coach and a guy who is a stubborn taskmaster

5) signing Boozer

6) letting Asik go

7) signing Taj to his deal

i think there was already an answer about this one and it ends up that its a cheaper route.

[panthermark]

If you want to win titles, you have to take risks. Obviously when taking risks you will make some bad moves. But guess what? How many titles do those teams have in the last 13 years? How many do we have?

I get what you are saying...but a big chunk of that is luck and timing.

It would be great if a prime "Shaq" to forced his way to Chicago...or for a prime "Gasol" to be gifted to us....or for the Kevin Durant to grab Kevin Love and say..."let's go to Chicago!"....or for a former teammate turned manager to help ship us a younger KG.

The problem is that the SG position is so thin right now, and with the new CBA being so harsh....you really have to plan well and luck out.

[DanTown8587]

It is not about FA only, it is also about possible trades.

I personally believe that JR will spend money for a title. That's just my opinion, though. You bring up the point that's being lost in this discussion, which is trades. I feel that is the flaw that needs to be addressed.

I would not be surprised if a trade was on the table yesterday involving Boozer or Deng, but GarPax chose to err on the side of caution instead. When that trade fell through, Reggie went public.

To believe this would mean that

1. The Bulls are talking to Derrick Rose about potential deals involving his teammates
2. No one on the national media or local media has a source inside the team

Considering the franchise, I consider both of these highly unlikely but whatever you want to believe.

[AAU Teammate]

It can only have negative consequences for the Bulls.

Disagree.

Wow. So you like situations that cause friction between Derrick and the Bulls. Got it.


This i'll give you - it either causes negativity, or nothing. There is zero gain.

[Saphir]

When I sai making moves I mean moves that would make a huge difference like trading for Melo or Dwight, even if they wouldn't resign (Even though Melo would've played in Chicago.) This FO doesn't make moves like that. The Lakers do, which is why they have so many rings.

Bold Prediction: The days of the Dwight and Carmelo trades are over. They will be nothing more than a relic of the past. The new CBA killed extend-and-trades, so you won't be seeing anything like those trades ever again. The owners very much wanted to defang the players and remove their ability to hold a team hostage.

[[d][R][o][s][e]]

This FO doesn't make moves like that. The Lakers do, which is why they have so many rings.

No, the Lakers don't do that. The only trade they've made like that is for Gasol. They drafted Kobe and signed Shaq as a FA when they weren't good and there was no individual player max. They trade one year of an injured Bynum for one year of an injured Dwight (who I believe will leave for Dallas this summer). I mean this team traded arguably the best player since Jordan IN HIS PRIME for Lamar Odom, Brian Grant's contract, and Caron Butler, and fell from competition because of it.

The teams that actually did make the trades for Dwight both became worse because of those trades. The Lakers suck, and the Knicks were worse with Melo than before (and Amare went from being elite for the Knicks to be a horrible fit). The Knicks are only better now because of Tyson, who they signed once they FINALLY realized they needed to clear cap space. And guess what? We STILL own them.

lakers didnt draft kobe

[League Circles]

It seems what many want is to be the Knicks. The Knicks would genuinely have been a better team if they had not traded for Melo IMO, assuming they still got Chandler. People just will never understand the uniqueness of what Miami did, and that the reason it works isn't because they a "2nd scorer" or "3rd scorer", it's because they have the best player alive surrounded by shooters. Truth be told, that team would be better by trading Wade, but since he built the team, they can never do that.

We do need more scoring to better compete, but that doesn't in any way mean that making a deal with only that goal in mind will improve the team.

[AAU Teammate]

There's another thing to consider and this is directed at the NBA in particular.

You have seedy guys in MLB. MLB guys are cheating on wives and doing all kinds of things. Reason it is less obvious? THey have pros running their PR. They have these antiseptic pristine inner circles of handlers.

The NBA stars very often have family/entourage etc doing things in an unprofessional manner (i.e. The Decision, i.e. Delonte West-- two things that shouldnt have been , literally, done)

We have to be smarter.

[The Kane]

This FO doesn't make moves like that. The Lakers do, which is why they have so many rings.

No, the Lakers don't do that. The only trade they've made like that is for Gasol. They drafted Kobe and signed Shaq as a FA when they weren't good and there was no individual player max. They trade one year of an injured Bynum for one year of an injured Dwight (who I believe will leave for Dallas this summer). I mean this team traded arguably the best player since Jordan IN HIS PRIME for Lamar Odom, Brian Grant's contract, and Caron Butler, and fell from competition because of it.

The teams that actually did make the trades for Dwight both became worse because of those trades. The Lakers suck, and the Knicks were worse with Melo than before (and Amare went from being elite for the Knicks to be a horrible fit). The Knicks are only better now because of Tyson, who they signed once they FINALLY realized they needed to clear cap space. And guess what? We STILL own them.

It doesn't make a difference what bad moves the Lakers have done. It's all overshadowed by their championships. The Bulls have had chances to take some risks that aren't as crazy as the risks others have taken. Trading for Melo was stupid for the Knicks IMO, because they had Galinari and Wilson Chandler and they were playing really well. I thought if they gave that team time to develop, they would have been really good. When it comes to the Bulls, we should've been down for trading Deng/Noah for Melo. Rose/Butler/Melo/Gibson/Asik is better than our current team IMO. It addresses our offensive defenciensies, and we would still have elite defense. If we had Melo right now, we would be in the title picture is what I'm saying. But the Bulls didn't want to give up their beloved players for a superstar. And the Lakers traded for Kobe, which was a RISK

[umfan83]

what the hell could you guys possibly be talking about to fill 100 pages in less than a day?

[WinCity]

It can only have negative consequences for the Bulls.

Disagree.

Wow. So you like situations that cause friction between Derrick and the Bulls. Got it.


This i'll give you - it either causes negativity, or nothing. There is zero gain.

Kobe caused friction with similar comments about LA making moves. It worked out for him. Maybe this has a similar impact, maybe not. Rose is a rare talent and the Bulls arent going to toss his views aside, not if their smart. Just because their is some tension doesnt mean its going to lead to something bad. Sometimes confrontation is good. We will just have to wait and see.

[League Circles]

There's another thing to consider and this is directed at the NBA in particular.

You have seedy guys in MLB. MLB guys are cheating on wives and doing all kinds of things. Reason it is less obvious? THey have pros running their PR. They have these antiseptic pristine inner circles of handlers.

The NBA stars very often have family/entourage etc doing things in an unprofessional manner (i.e. The Decision, i.e. Delonte West-- two things that shouldnt have been , literally, done)

We have to be smarter.

Great point. Many NBA players in retirement talk about how their loved ones (without naming names) make things hard on them because they act in their own interests instead of the players.