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Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread

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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#161 » by PetroNet » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:59 am

enetric wrote:For year 1 of a revamped franchise and looking at the landscape in the EC....what I care most about right now is what seed we finish with. I want to be the 2 seed. Whoever we play round 1 we play. Trial by fire. If you want to be a winner...think like one. Can is say yes, prefer to match up against this team or that? Sure. But I want to build chemistry these last 30 games and have some swagger. Grab that 2 seed and be the team OTHERS in the conference say...I prefer not to play Bklyn in the first round.


if you are a bottom 4 seed, why wouldnt you want to play us? we dont play great defense and dont play with a ton of energy. you can also force us to play your style pretty easily
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#162 » by enetric » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:19 am

PetroNet wrote:
enetric wrote:For year 1 of a revamped franchise and looking at the landscape in the EC....what I care most about right now is what seed we finish with. I want to be the 2 seed. Whoever we play round 1 we play. Trial by fire. If you want to be a winner...think like one. Can is say yes, prefer to match up against this team or that? Sure. But I want to build chemistry these last 30 games and have some swagger. Grab that 2 seed and be the team OTHERS in the conference say...I prefer not to play Bklyn in the first round.


if you are a bottom 4 seed, why wouldnt you want to play us? we dont play great defense and dont play with a ton of energy. you can also force us to play your style pretty easily


That's true of who we are right now but not of who we can be. We have the personnel to beat anyone other than the Heat in the EC. We can score...we do have the guys to play D. Its an issue of execution and that is what I am looking for out of these last 30 games. Now having Deron at 100% would make a major difference as well but at this point I dont think that's a realistic goal for this year.
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#163 » by PetroNet » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:21 am

enetric wrote:
PetroNet wrote:
enetric wrote:For year 1 of a revamped franchise and looking at the landscape in the EC....what I care most about right now is what seed we finish with. I want to be the 2 seed. Whoever we play round 1 we play. Trial by fire. If you want to be a winner...think like one. Can is say yes, prefer to match up against this team or that? Sure. But I want to build chemistry these last 30 games and have some swagger. Grab that 2 seed and be the team OTHERS in the conference say...I prefer not to play Bklyn in the first round.


if you are a bottom 4 seed, why wouldnt you want to play us? we dont play great defense and dont play with a ton of energy. you can also force us to play your style pretty easily


That's true of who we are right now but not of who we can be. We have the personnel to beat anyone other than the Heat in the EC. We can score...we do have the guys to play D. Its an issue of execution and that is what I am looking for out of these last 30 games. Now having Deron at 100% would make a major difference as well but at this point I dont think that's a realistic goal for this year.


i disagree we have the personnell to defend. we can certainly execute better, but we just have a lot of bad and average defenders. and we dont have any great defenders. our bigs are all average or worse defensively
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#164 » by enetric » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:48 am

PetroNet wrote:
enetric wrote:
PetroNet wrote:
if you are a bottom 4 seed, why wouldnt you want to play us? we dont play great defense and dont play with a ton of energy. you can also force us to play your style pretty easily


That's true of who we are right now but not of who we can be. We have the personnel to beat anyone other than the Heat in the EC. We can score...we do have the guys to play D. Its an issue of execution and that is what I am looking for out of these last 30 games. Now having Deron at 100% would make a major difference as well but at this point I dont think that's a realistic goal for this year.


i disagree we have the personnell to defend. we can certainly execute better, but we just have a lot of bad and average defenders. and we dont have any great defenders. our bigs are all average or worse defensively


While I hate starting Crash and Evans...they are both capable of more defensively than they have shown us. Crash come playoff time very capable of being an above average on the ball guy. JJ is more than adequate when he wants to be and Brook has turned into an elite shot blocking presence. That is more than most have personnel wise and as it stands through all the whining...we are what? 5th in the entire league in points allowed by our opponents? 3rd in rebounds allowed. So you are inaccurate when you are as dismissive as you are about defense and controlling tempo. The numbers say we are doing better in at least one if not both.

I dont disagree with you that there are tons of things we need to do better. I just think we can do it better with what we have than we have shown. We are on the same page there.

And as I have said before...I really dont believe that the primary issue is nitpicking the role guys, the support guys...as if that would make a monumental difference for this team which is playing .600 ball. I think its about star power. Its about having that ONE superstar. I think you dance around it with leadership comments. But its about having the stud guy that we dont have to raise everyone else up and take over when needed.
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#165 » by PetroNet » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:00 am

enetric wrote:
While I hate starting Crash and Evans...they are both capable of more defensively than they have shown us. Crash come playoff time very capable of being an above average on the ball guy. JJ is more than adequate when he wants to be and Brook has turned into an elite shot blocking presence. That is more than most have personnel wise and as it stands through all the whining...we are what? 5th in the entire league in points allowed by our opponents? 3rd in rebounds allowed. So you are inaccurate when you are as dismissive as you are about


being an elite shotblocker doest make you a good defender. there are about 100 more things that go into defense besides blocking shots. brook is a very good rim protector, he is a very poor pick and roll defender. he is a very poor help defender. he is a very poor defender in space. overall, he is at best an average defender.

being 5th in the league in points allowed is meaningless if you dont take pace into concern... coming into tonite we were i believe 16th in the NBA in defensive rating.

we are a average a below average defensive team. and we have a bunch of below average defenders.
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#166 » by enetric » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:42 am

PetroNet wrote:
enetric wrote:
While I hate starting Crash and Evans...they are both capable of more defensively than they have shown us. Crash come playoff time very capable of being an above average on the ball guy. JJ is more than adequate when he wants to be and Brook has turned into an elite shot blocking presence. That is more than most have personnel wise and as it stands through all the whining...we are what? 5th in the entire league in points allowed by our opponents? 3rd in rebounds allowed. So you are inaccurate when you are as dismissive as you are about defense and controlling tempo. The numbers say we are doing better in at least one if not both.

I dont disagree with you that there are tons of things we need to do better. I just think we can do it better with what we have than we have shown. We are on the same page there.

And as I have said before...I really dont believe that the primary issue is nitpicking the role guys, the support guys...as if that would make a monumental difference for this team which is playing .600 ball. I think its about star power. Its about having that ONE superstar. I think you dance around it with leadership comments. But its about having the stud guy that we dont have to raise everyone else up and take over when needed.


being an elite shotblocker doest make you a good defender. there are about 100 more things that go into defense besides blocking shots. brook is a very good rim protector, he is a very poor pick and roll defender. he is a very poor help defender. he is a very poor defender in space. overall, he is at best an average defender.

being 5th in the league in points allowed is meaningless if you dont take pace into concern... coming into tonite we were i believe 16th in the NBA in defensive rating.

we are a average a below average defensive team. and we have a bunch of below average defenders.




I dont believe I said he was a very good defender. I said he was a very good shot blocker. And I dont disagree with your assessment of his flaws...although its down right foolish that you would say that to me of all people or try to misrepresent what I actually said. I would advise you to show a bit more respect in your choice of words or phrasing.

As for our PPG allowed being where they are...dictates by its very nature that we must be doing a better job with setting pace or overall D than you are giving credit for. Would I call us a good D team? No. Would I agree we have some terrible defensive lapses? Yes. But, we did see under Avery early in the year that we were capable playing quality D and at times we see that this team has the horses. What I am trying to say is the core components to come together defensively that you need are there. In fact one might argue that playing Evans and Crash together is an attempt for the worse to try and over compensate for D over our offense. I prioritize D like you do but given our team strengths...I would suggest that we might be over thinking it.

You incorrectly make it sound as if we had added one stud defender like Josh Smith that suddenly we would go from being the 3rd or 4th seeded team to in Miami territory as a true contender. My point is, while yes there are issues of severe inconsistency...its not something we are without personnel to execute to be as good as anyone in the conference beyond the Heat.

Above all your more petty complaints...the big picture is that its a superstar's league and we do not have superstars. We win now on decent offense and decent D. Honestly...if we were as awful as you made it sound we would be the Kings right now.

And listen...you say antagonistic things like we would for sure lose to the Bucks in the playoffs on a day we were sitting with the 3 seed and they had the 8th and we had just beaten them back to back. Could we lose to them? Sure. But your criticisms are overly harsh. And this comes from a guy who tends to be overly conservative in my predictions and support of this team throughout the 12 years I have been posting here. Its as if the constant repetition and failure to see the other side of the coin is designed to irritate everyone here.


Just relax. Stop trying to make people want to punch you in the face.
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#167 » by N Ireland Nets » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:26 pm

enetric wrote:Just relax. Stop trying to make people want to punch you in the face.



I laughed
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#168 » by PetroNet » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:57 pm

enetric wrote: I would advise you to show a bit more respect in your choice of words or phrasing.


get over yourself. i didnt name call you or anything. your opinions arent above being disagreed with.
As for our PPG allowed being where they are...dictates by its very nature that we must be doing a better job with setting pace or overall D than you are giving credit for.


our offense sets our pace, not our defense. we were last in the NBA in fastbreak points at last check
(and im sure we are bottom 5 at the very most right now). We rarely get early offense and most of our attempts come in the last 10 seconds of the shot clock. teams know they can get buckets if they make us work in the pick and roll and dont force quick shots as a result. Teams are fine playing the game at our pace because they can have success with it as scoring against our defense sint difficult and offensively we are inconsistent enough where we will evntually lay an egg of a quarter, as we have in so many 3rd quarters this year.

You incorrectly make it sound as if we had added one stud defender like Josh Smith that suddenly we would go from being the 3rd or 4th seeded team to in Miami territory as a true contender. My point is, while yes there are issues of severe inconsistency...its not something we are without personnel to execute to be as good as anyone in the conference beyond the Heat.


We would go from first round fodder to, in my opinion, a lock to win in round 1 and a great chance to win in round 2. I'm sorry, but putting josh smith, an All-NBA defender, at the PF spot, a huge achillies heal for us defensively, would make a world of a difference. in addition to being a huge boost to our pick and roll defense, his shot blocking and help defense would make up for alot of poor rotations by his teammates. right now, outside brook, we dont have another rim protector. scheme wont change that. getting a PF who blocks shots would.

getting a josh smith type defender would make a much bigger impact defensively then PJ having better schemes.
Above all your more petty complaints...the big picture is that its a superstar's league and we do not have superstars. We win now on decent offense and decent D. Honestly...if we were as awful as you made it sound we would be the Kings right now.


we win now by beating up on the crappy teams. if we were in the west would we be the 8 seed? honestly would we? houston is the 8 seed now, has 2 less wins then us and has beaten us twice. im not sure we would.
And listen...you say antagonistic things like we would for sure lose to the Bucks in the playoffs on a day we were sitting with the 3 seed and they had the 8th and we had just beaten them back to back. Could we lose to them? Sure. But your criticisms are overly harsh.


they beat us twice handily... the third game took joe johnson heroball to win. and the third game they would have tied it if ellis didint choke his brains out. i dont like that matchup at all, especially now that they have another 3pt assasin in reddick.


Just relax. Stop trying to make people want to punch you in the face.


dude, its not that serious. deep breaths man.
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#169 » by NyCeEvO » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:29 pm

N Ireland Nets wrote:
enetric wrote:Just relax. Stop trying to make people want to punch you in the face.



I laughed

+1

Classic E...
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#170 » by PetroNet » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:06 pm

As for our PPG allowed being where they are...dictates by its very nature that we must be doing a better job with setting pace or overall D than you are giving
credit
for. Would I call us a good D team? No. Would I agree we have some terrible defensive lapses? Yes. But, we did see under Avery early in the year that we were capable playing quality D and at times we see that this team has the horses. What I am trying to say is the core components to come together defensively that you need are there. In fact one might argue that playing Evans and Crash together is an attempt for the worse to try and over compensate for D over our offense. I prioritize D like you do but given our team strengths...I would suggest that we might be over thinking it.



i just think that the (warranted) frustration with PJ is overshadowing that we are a collection of average and poor defenders. it can be aruged that the scheme sint right or the effort isnt there, but objectively, career wise, these guys arent great defenders

Deron Williams career 110 defensive rating(109 this year)
Joe Johnson career 110 defensive rating (110 this year)
Gerald Wallace career 102 defensive rating(104 this year)
Reggie evans career 104 defensive rating(101 this year)
Brook Lopez 109 career defensive rating (104 this year)

others (career/this year)

watson 109/107
hump 106/105
blatche 107/101
Bogans 107/110

I just dont think it is really a suprise to have a team defensive rating of 107(106.5 tied for 19th in the NBA) this year when all of our defenders are in the 107+ range for their careers.


Career wise, these guys haven been good defenders. most below average or poor outside of 1 or 2 guys. Also, the majority of them have played better then their career average(and looking deeper better then the past recent seasons) defensively.

even if these guy were average for their careers, but worse this year, i could see the case for "they arent bad, they just arent being used right/coached right/right effort/right scheme, etc... but that simply isnt the case.

the reality is, we have a group of average to below average defender, no elite defenders/game changers on defense. beter coaching and effort will help, but the underlining issue is just a lack of defenders. especially up front where collectively we are really slow and unathletic
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#171 » by N Ireland Nets » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:21 am

Remember when I said I believe AK47 has a very good chance of signing for us this summer after the "story" came out which people thought meant AK wasn't opting out?

http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=12524

Andrei Kirilenko will wait until off-season to decide on Wolves option
Posted by Inside Hoops

Feb 23
andrei kirilenko

Now that the NBA trade deadline has come and gone, Timberwolves forward Andrei Kirilenko knows, as if there were any question, he’ll be here for the rest of the season.

After that, he has until to July 1 to opt out of the final season of the two-year, $20 million contract he signed last summer.

He has 10 million reasons to stay, but said Friday he’s keeping an open mind.

“I’m going to wait until the off-season,” he said. “Right now there’s no point to make any decision.”

He said he and his agent sought the player’s option for next season because “we want to have all kind of options.”


Watch this space....
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#172 » by Pen Island » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:23 am

AK47 is an enigma. Can't quite figure him out. As a person, I mean. Doesn't seem to care about money.
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#173 » by Ronito » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:33 am

Is it possible to trade for him in the offseason?
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#174 » by Pen Island » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:36 am

Ronito wrote:Is it possible to trade for him in the offseason?


Yes. If he doesn't opt out and re-sign with the Wolves in a sign and trade. We are ineligible for S&T.

We can trade for him if he does not opt out. HBAP works money wise.
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#175 » by DarkXaero » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:35 am

N Ireland Nets wrote:Remember when I said I believe AK47 has a very good chance of signing for us this summer after the "story" came out which people thought meant AK wasn't opting out?

http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=12524

Andrei Kirilenko will wait until off-season to decide on Wolves option
Posted by Inside Hoops

Feb 23
andrei kirilenko

Now that the NBA trade deadline has come and gone, Timberwolves forward Andrei Kirilenko knows, as if there were any question, he’ll be here for the rest of the season.

After that, he has until to July 1 to opt out of the final season of the two-year, $20 million contract he signed last summer.

He has 10 million reasons to stay, but said Friday he’s keeping an open mind.

“I’m going to wait until the off-season,” he said. “Right now there’s no point to make any decision.”

He said he and his agent sought the player’s option for next season because “we want to have all kind of options.”


Watch this space....
Listen man, I'll be delighted to be proven wrong in this case, but it's just hard to see him turn down $10 million for $3.1 million at most. Even if he opts out from his Wolves contract, he'll still be courted by other teams who will offer more. But like I said, if we could get him for cheap, I would be delighted.
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#176 » by PetroNet » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:14 pm

Pen Island wrote:
Ronito wrote:Is it possible to trade for him in the offseason?


Yes. If he doesn't opt out and re-sign with the Wolves in a sign and trade. We are ineligible for S&T.

We can trade for him if he does not opt out. HBAP works money wise.


we cant trade do S&T because we are over the apron.

we could sign him to the tax payers MLE, thats it
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#177 » by PetroNet » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:14 pm

Pen Island wrote:
Ronito wrote:Is it possible to trade for him in the offseason?


Yes. If he doesn't opt out and re-sign with the Wolves in a sign and trade. We are ineligible for S&T.

We can trade for him if he does not opt out. HBAP works money wise.


we cant trade do S&T because we are over the apron.

we could sign him to the tax payers MLE, thats it
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#178 » by N Ireland Nets » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:32 pm

Pen Island wrote:AK47 is an enigma. Can't quite figure him out. As a person, I mean. Doesn't seem to care about money.


I used google translate after he signed for CSKA Moscow and he basically said something along the lines of, "I got paid a lot of money to play for Utah in the NBA. Money isn't an issue for me which is why I asked that my salary go to my foundation to help others in need."

Paraphrasing hugely but I remember thinking at the time nutcase. I also heard from people when I was at the home opener about how badly AK wanted to be in Brooklyn but no matter what nobody could justify turning $20m over vet min. But in the summer with the mmle which would entitle AK to about $9.5m over 3 while playing for a contender. He's had to suffer a horrible season in Minnesota with constant huge injuries while he isn't going to the playoffs.

He has front office aspirations as well after his career is over so it wouldn't shock me to see him long term getting some sort of role for the Nets due to the obvious Russian connections.

Like I said before, I'm not guarantee it at all but to dismiss this out of hand is wrong and its a real possibility he is a Net next season.
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#179 » by Pen Island » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:06 pm

PetroNet wrote:
Pen Island wrote:
Ronito wrote:Is it possible to trade for him in the offseason?


Yes. If he doesn't opt out and re-sign with the Wolves in a sign and trade. We are ineligible for S&T.

We can trade for him if he does not opt out. HBAP works money wise.


we cant trade do S&T because we are over the apron.

we could sign him to the tax payers MLE, thats it


Assuming he doesn't opt out we can trade for him. It wouldn't be a S&T then.
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Re: Trade Targets 3.0/Pre-Draft Off-Season Thread 

Post#180 » by AntwanBoldin » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:48 pm

@woj NBA's most improved Nov/Dec to Jan/Feb: Toronto's Amir Johnson. Over 53% in scoring (12.1), rebounds (9.1), blocks (1.7). Maybe MIP of year?

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