Are you disappointed so far this season?

[Nanogeek]

After Dave's last response to me its clear he's just intentionally misinterpreting my responses, offering up straw men to refute and baiting me to respond. I'll just drop him in the ignore bin and save the myself and the board from further inaneness.

[vorbis]

i think you're dropping words like "troll" and "straw men" way too eagerly right now. there is a discussion happening here in good faith.

[Nanogeek]

you can't plant a "biyombo is a scrub" flag and simultaneously tell people that they are the ones not paying attention. biyombo is significantly better and more consistent than he was at christmastime.

Saying he was a scrub was overly harsh I agree. Biyombo IS a role player talent right now and he has improved as a role player this season somewhat. But he's not lived up to his lottery pick and I'm disappointed he hasn't made more progress towards the potential he should be fulfilling as a lottery pick. I'm concerned his ceiling isn't much higher than what we are seeing now.

[vorbis]

you can't plant a "biyombo is a scrub" flag and simultaneously tell people that they are the ones not paying attention. biyombo is significantly better and more consistent than he was at christmastime.

Saying he was a scrub was overly harsh I agree. Biyombo IS a role player talent right now and he has improved as a role player this season somewhat. But he's not lived up to his lottery pick and I'm disappointed he hasn't made more progress towards the potential he should be fulfilling as a lottery pick. I'm concerned his ceiling isn't much higher than what we are seeing now.

on that point i must fervently disagree. i have seen significant improvement since the beginning of the season on pretty much every facet of his game. in fact, i can't think of any aspect of his game that hasn't improved since the beginning of this calendar year. i am not even speaking in numbers, as those are fairly similar to the beginning of the season, with the exception of rebounds.

sure, you would assume a player would improve in his first two seasons in the NBA, regardless of his age. but given his youth, combined with the fact that he's still pretty green experience-wise, i don't think it's a stretch at all to say that there's a lot more improvement in his future. whether it happens, only time will tell. he's already a fringe starter-level talent on any squad IMO, and i think the strides he's made are going to stick for the long haul too.

it does seem to me that he has the mental makeup to work on his craft and push through frustration. i think he's already shown that, though sometimes more than others. i also think he is super underrated as a competitor. in fact, that was one of the things about him that surprised me from his very first game.

so in these respects, he's already worth the lottery pick gamble to me, with the potential to bring even more returns in the future. the last month or two have given me much more optimism than i had after the first few 0pts/3 reb games in november.

[Nanogeek]

you can't plant a "biyombo is a scrub" flag and simultaneously tell people that they are the ones not paying attention. biyombo is significantly better and more consistent than he was at christmastime.

Saying he was a scrub was overly harsh I agree. Biyombo IS a role player talent right now and he has improved as a role player this season somewhat. But he's not lived up to his lottery pick and I'm disappointed he hasn't made more progress towards the potential he should be fulfilling as a lottery pick. I'm concerned his ceiling isn't much higher than what we are seeing now.

on that point i must fervently disagree. i have seen significant improvement since the beginning of the season on pretty much every facet of his game. in fact, i can't think of any aspect of his game that hasn't improved since the beginning of this calendar year. i am not even speaking in numbers, as those are fairly similar to the beginning of the season, with the exception of rebounds.

sure, you would assume a player would improve in his first two seasons in the NBA, regardless of his age. but given his youth, combined with the fact that he's still pretty green experience-wise, i don't think it's a stretch at all to say that there's a lot more improvement in his future. whether it happens, only time will tell. he's already a fringe starter-level talent on any squad IMO, and i think the strides he's made are going to stick for the long haul too.

it does seem to me that he has the mental makeup to work on his craft and push through frustration. i think he's already shown that, though sometimes more than others. i also think he is super underrated as a competitor. in fact, that was one of the things about him that surprised me from his very first game.

so in these respects, he's already worth the lottery pick gamble to me, with the potential to bring even more returns in the future. the last month or two have given me much more optimism than i had after the first few 0pts/3 reb games in november.

Just so I am clear. Which of my statements are you fervently disagreeing with? That Biyombo is performing like a role player right now? That he has not lived up to his lottery pick selection (which is different than whether he was worth the gamble or not - I'm saying the gamble has not paid off yet)?

[vorbis]

Just so I am clear. Which of my statements are you fervently disagreeing with? That Biyombo is performing like a role player right now? That he has not lived up to his lottery pick selection (which is different than whether he was worth the gamble or not - I'm saying the gamble has not paid off yet)?

the ceiling. so is he a scrub or a role player? is there a difference? i'm confused as to how you are becoming disappointed by his play specifically, despite the things you appear to say (sorry if putting words in your mouth) biyombo has already accomplished. the statement i originally disagreed with was you calling him a 'scrub.' if he is, as you say, a 20 year old 2nd year role player, is this not justifying of a lottery pick selection? what is it about him that makes you concerned his ceiling is not much higher than what he is doing now? i'm curious.

[Nanogeek]

Just so I am clear. Which of my statements are you fervently disagreeing with? That Biyombo is performing like a role player right now? That he has not lived up to his lottery pick selection (which is different than whether he was worth the gamble or not - I'm saying the gamble has not paid off yet)?

the ceiling. so is he a scrub or a role player? is there a difference? i'm confused as to how you are becoming disappointed by his play specifically, despite the things you appear to say (sorry if putting words in your mouth) biyombo has already accomplished. the statement i originally disagreed with was you calling him a 'scrub.' if he is, as you say, a 20 year old 2nd year role player, is this not justifying of a lottery pick selection? what is it about him that makes you concerned his ceiling is not much higher than what he is doing now? i'm curious.

I conceded previously my "scrub" comment was overlay harsh and edited my post to boot. I think we both agree the skill he is displaying currently is that of a role player. The question is can be become a starter-level talent or even a DPOY talent. Lets look at that a bit deeper. The two paths for Biyombo to become a starter-level talent are to improve both offensively and defensively or to become an elite defender such that his lack of offensive production is overshadowed by his elite defensive contributions. I think Biyombo's best chance is the latter - becoming an elite defender.

I don't have time to get into a detailed statistical analysis this morning but while he has improved over last season he was not elite defender last season though I do think he is a starter-level defender. But his offense is so horrendous (~#300 in the league) that starter-level defensive contributions is not enough. The question is whether Biyombo can develop into a Ben Wallace type player. He has the athletic tools to get to Ben Wallace levels. I don't think he is quite as strong as Wallace but he's got better length than Wallace did. But there's much more to it than athletic gifts. Wallace was a terrible defensive player in his first season but he transformed by his second season into an excellent defender - much better than Biyombo is today. Over the next two seasons he ascended to his DPOY form.

Biyombo was a better defender in his rookie season than Wallace was but whereas Wallace improved dramatically to a point where he was defending much better than Biyombo is in his second season, Biyombo has only marginally improved this season defensively.

Perhaps a more encouraging model is Serge Ibaka. Ibaka was a somewhat worse defender in his rookie season than Biyombo was in his. Ibaka improved somewhat in his second season and then broke out in his third season. In fact Ibaka's third season defensive performance was similar to Wallace's second season performance. Ibaka's breakout in his third season gives me some hope that Biyombo could have his own breakout next year. But Biyombo needs to go further than Ibaka defensively to become a starter because Biyombo's offensive is so horrible. Biyombo is at best treading water offensively and perhaps even regressing a bit.

We'll see what happens. I hope I am wrong. I hope Biyombo puts up Ben Wallace second year numbers next season. But I am not holding my breath.

[ball teacher]

The season is a disappointment. Mullens is used as a 7 ft perimeter shooter now thanks to Dunlap. MKG is hardly used enough, thanks to Dunlap. We run a offense that consists of a pick and roll which we hope allows our pg to be able to score alot of points, or we just allow Sessions, BG and Henderson to chuck away shot after shot with little to no ball movement.
Biz, MKG, Mullens, Henderson and Kemba should all be getting the bulk of the shots from areas conducive to the positions they play. Biz should have about 10 shots a game from the post so he can use this time to actually try and develop some offensive moves. Mullens should get about 15 shots from the post extending out maybe 10-15 feet. MKG should get between 10-15 shots and he should definitely have 30 plus minutes. And maybe Henderson should be the main scoring option.
I don't know what the hell we are doing, but when another coach comes in, damn near everyone on this team will have to adjust to a new role and have to go through a process of playing the game the right way, since we didn't use this season to let the guys grow and take their bruises the season is almost a waste, imo.

[advanced]

if we gave 40 combined shots to MKG, Bismack, and Mully and made Henderson our #1 scoring option we'd seriously lose every game by 50 points. We're already the worst offense in the league and you just suggested demoting our 4 most efficient options for highly less efficient ones.

[Snidely FC]

"Rockets Close to Deal With Tim Ohlbrecht."
"Grizzlies Trade for Dexter Pittman."
"Jeremy Tyler Dealt To ATL for Future Draft Considerations."

Who cares, right? Well, I do, and my disappointment at these seemingly innocuous headlines is at the heart of what disappoints me about this 'Cats team.

As a rebuilding team, especially one with a glaring need for a big guy, at least one big guy, who can clog the lane and get rebounds, and do some of the things a normal big man does, it sees like a no-brainer to use that last available spot to grab a young big with potential upside. It's a risk reward thing that HOU GM Morey seems to truly grasp. We did it with Mully, you'd think they'd want to try again. Last year, I pined for Greg Smith out of the D League. HOU signed him. This summer, I hoped we'd sign Earl Clark. He got thrown in the LA deal. Or Daniel Orton, who's starting to show OKC he can play. This was after we let Dante Cunningham walk and sold a promising draft pick in Jeremy Tyler. Yeah these guys have warts, but they're all 24 or younger and often blocked in the depth chart. Now we have an empty roster spot, and while I like Rocky and McBob, what is the downside to bringing in one of these young bigs (Henry Sims?) and taking a risk that might have a big reward? It's one of the frustrating aspects of our team management that I find disappointing.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Yeah, I don't know why we still have this open spot if we're not gonna use it. Honestly I thought we would've used it to bring back Higgins by now.

[penquin11]

I wouldn't say Im dissapointed this season, I would say Im dissapointed just about every season. However watching Kemba play the way he has and watching Biz really become a more complete player (he is rebounding and defending much better now- almost out of no-where) has been nice.

[Snidely FC]

I am disappointed we are still in the "Discard" phase of rebuilding, when we should be burning up the "Stockpiling" phase. Why wasn't Tyrus amnesthetized? Why weren't DJA, Boris, Gordon, Hendo traded at deadlines? Would the carcuses of Carroll, Diop, TT, etc have stayed on this squad if this team was owned by, say, Mark Cuban? Why aren't we trying out players with our 15th spot?

Orlando has been "Rebuilding" a shorter time than us, but already they have a trove of young players that have bright futures and trade value. HOU is stacked and they still keep adding players. How many roster spots do they have? We don't even have players with trade value. I don't get why we're not able to stockpile more assets. It's like the cupboards are completely bare.

[countryboi]

I am disappointed we are still in the "Discard" phase of rebuilding, when we should be burning up the "Stockpiling" phase. Why wasn't Tyrus amnesthetized? Why weren't DJA, Boris, Gordon, Hendo traded at deadlines? Would the carcuses of Carroll, Diop, TT, etc have stayed on this squad if this team was owned by, say, Mark Cuban? Why aren't we trying out players with our 15th spot?

Orlando has been "Rebuilding" a shorter time than us, but already they have a trove of young players that have bright futures and trade value. HOU is stacked and they still keep adding players. How many roster spots do they have? We don't even have players with trade value. I don't get why we're not able to stockpile more assets. It's like the cupboards are completely bare.

all Charlotte needs to do is trade a superstar like howard and we can have a roster full of young players like orlando too. now houston is just better at this game than us but they are better at this game then everyone. which is kinda of strange because Cho is the same type of numbers guy as Morey

[Eoghan]

Nobody wanted Tyrus, Gordon, Hendo, Diop or DJA. We should have kept Boris but that was Paul Silas' fault for being an awful coach. Cuban would have probably given Diop and Tyrus raises and then trade them away for bad contracts.

[JT2006]

I am disappointed we are still in the "Discard" phase of rebuilding, when we should be burning up the "Stockpiling" phase. Why wasn't Tyrus amnesthetized? Why weren't DJA, Boris, Gordon, Hendo traded at deadlines? Would the carcuses of Carroll, Diop, TT, etc have stayed on this squad if this team was owned by, say, Mark Cuban? Why aren't we trying out players with our 15th spot?

Orlando has been "Rebuilding" a shorter time than us, but already they have a trove of young players that have bright futures and trade value. HOU is stacked and they still keep adding players. How many roster spots do they have? We don't even have players with trade value. I don't get why we're not able to stockpile more assets. It's like the cupboards are completely bare.

all Charlotte needs to do is trade a superstar like howard and we can have a roster full of young players like orlando too. now houston is just better at this game than us but they are better at this game then everyone. which is kinda of strange because Cho is the same type of numbers guy as Morey

Houston also had like 500 picks in the last few drafts and was rebuilding for longer