The Suns FO is not that bad

[Revived]

I'm honestly sick and tired of people ripping apart the Suns FO crew of Babby and Blanks. I'll admit that I have also occasionally took my gabs at them but after thinking about the moves the new regime has made, I realized that they take a lot of unnecessary heat from fans. Those two should not be judged on the mistakes that Sarver and Kerr made prior to their hiring.

Didn't every single person on this board want the Suns to blow it up and rebuild? And now some of those posters are complaining about the Suns FO? Pathetic. Did you think blowing it up means posting winning records? That's cute but it blowing it up means you become one of the worst teams in the NBA and use the high draft picks to get better. ex. OKC, GSW, UTA, and now CLE is following that path.

Lets go down the list of major moves that they have made thus far.

1. Letting Amare go. I'm not going to explain this as if you watch the NBA at all, you should know that this was maybe the best decision the Suns have made in franchise history. +500...jk, +1

2. Trade J-Rich, Hedo (awful contract), Clark for a 1st round pick, Gortat and Carter's expiring contract. The Suns clearly win this trade. Gortat blossomed into a solid center in this league, that too one on a great contract while Hedo has continued to suck while J-Rich lasted less than 2 years there, as did Clark. +1

3. Trade the 1st round pick + Dragic for Aaron Brooks. Suns clearly lost in this trade. Brooks turned out to be a disaster for us and made little sense to throw away the 1st round pick we acquired from Orlando. However, it was rumored that Dragic at the time, hated PHX and did not want to stay here because of Carter or Hedo or something. Plus he supposedly broke his foot on glass doing something silly apparently as well. -1

4. Drafting Markieff Morris. This really wasn't that bad a pick considering that everyone else that was drafted after him hasn't really panned out much better. The only two exceptions is Kawhi Leonard and Kenneth Faried. Morris still shows the toughness and grit that we drafted him for and now his game just needs to be more consistent and he needs an identity. I don't think this was a bad move because like I said, there wasn't anyone better to get and Kieff still has a lot of potential. +1

5. Drafting Kendall Marshall. I was one of the fans who immediately predicted that this guy would be a bust in the NBA. I didn't see any shape or form in which his game would translate to the NBA as he was neither athletic, nor a good shooter and there are no good PGs in the league who can't do either of those things. However, like the Morris pick, there was nobody better to select here. Too early to judge on this move though as he may turn some eyes later on. INC

6. Deciding to rebuild and letting Nash and Hill walk. Nash was an unrestricted FA and we traded him for FOUR DRAFT PICKS WITH ONE LIKELY BECOMING A LOTTERY PICK. How many FOs can say that they traded an unrestricted free agent and got back a lottery pick from it? The Suns finally listened to their fans and decided to rebuild. This is definitely a good move in the right direction. +1

7. Trading Robin Lopez. Lopez was awful in PHX and many here wanted to trade him for a very late 2nd round pick and instead we were able to get rid of him for a 1st round pick as well as a younger player drafted in the top 5 and is still on the final year of his rookie contract. +1

8. Signing Goran Dragic. The Suns replaced the former Suns legend Nash with the former fan favorite Dragic. Dragic has had a very good season thus far but his stats and numbers are affected by the fact that he has had to switch systems under two HCs and playing with a rotation that is very inconsistent. Goran is the best player on this team and has been a brightspot this year with his effort. +1

9. Signing Michael Beasley.....I won't explain, this was a bad move. But it should be noted that the Suns wanted younger players, Beasley was young and flashed potential at times to become something bigger. The problem was that they overpaid him. -1

10. Acquiring Luis Scola....many don't like this signing but I think this is a move the Suns made so that they have some positive vet exp in the locker room. Plus this is essentially an investment, Scola is still a valuable player on a very good contract and can be traded this summer for something of good worth. Does not hurt us at all.... +1

11. Signing O'Neal. This has become a very nice surprise for us this year. Some hates this signing (Phrazbit) and thought he was prove very cancerous for the team and cause division in the locker room. Instead he has been playing great as a backup and at times even outplaying starter Marcin Gortat. He even said he loves it in PHX and wants to stay here. All this while playing in a year in which he has had many family problems with his daughter having to get surgery... +1

12. Trading for Marcus Morris. Morris was a 14th overall pick just a few years ago and has been buried on the Rockets depth chart due to them having a log jam. He never even got a legit shot at showing his talents in the NBA. Acquiring him for a 2nd rd pick was a brilliant move and then the thought of him and his twin brother perhaps motivating and raising one another's game to another level makes it even better. +1

13. Firing Gentry and hiring Hunter. Gentry was the HC of a team that consistently missed playoffs for 3 straight years (counting this year). The team showed no improvement and no matter how low the talent level is, I can't think of many HCs who don't get fired after having 3 consecutive years where the team missed playoffs. And if you look now, I think our guys are playing harder for Hunter than for Gentry this year. I think the whole passing up on Majerle and Turner (who was my favorite for the job) was poorly handled though. Its not fair to completely hire a guy that just came up (Hunter) over two guys that have been with the franchise for quite some time. -1

So in 13 big, key moves, the Suns made 3 bad moves. The Suns are now in a position to be very bad for the next few years while having many draft picks to use. We also don't have any awful contracts that are going to impact the way we handle business. We have solid cap space for the future right now. We are in a great position to rebuild right now. We hit on some of those draft picks and we'll be right back to contender status.

Bottom line is, the Suns future is not as bad as many of you say it is. Its actually pretty bright. Sure we don't have any young rookies or sophomores with potential like all the other cool teams but in 4 months we will. Our draft picks will account for that.

Feel free to argue any of the points that I made, that's why I made this thread. But please don't be hostile and keep it civil.

[DRK]

Its not really their individual moves that have been the problem. Talent-wise, they are decent at trades.

Its more the fact that they appear to have no real long-term plan for this team, and their lack of balls of pulling the trigger on deals, i.e not making moves when the time is right. See: Harden, James.

[Sunsaholic]

Signing Michael Beasley should be -20 at the very least

[13ONE3]

I agree with all of those except for one for the most part. That one is #13. And to be honest, it's only disagreeing with 33% of it.

I agree Gentry needed to go. Some will argue it, but it needed to happen to send us in a right direction. I also agree that Majerle and Turner were both exceptionally qualified to take over the team. I even think Turner would've been the best choice of the 3 in a logical "time to turn this team around" aspect. However; since it's been widely known despite not coming out and saying "we're going through some things, so we're just going to be bad", I feel Hunter was the best choice. I see him as a scapegoat of sorts and is just around for the end of the season. If we continue to be bad (and we likely are) we look at Hunter and say "well, he's not qualified, what do you expect?". So if you consider that he's just here to take the heat as being inexperienced it's not so bad. The FO could be just thinking one step ahead of everything and didn't want to risk the popularity or credibility of our more suitable choices. It'd be terrible if either Majerle or Turner took over and we were just as bad and then they get a bad rep for it. Yeah, it still looks bad we chose the "rookie" guy over the "veterans" but trust me, we all still respect Dan and Elston right now and that might've been vastly different had they took over and we were still playing poorly.

tl;dr/wall of text -- Gentry had to go; Hunter is a scapegoat and is best choice for a near worst in the league losing team that replaces a coach midway through the season.

[phrazbit]

These guys were not around for the Amare departure so they get no credit or blame for that.

Calling Morris a "+1" is a joke. At best you could say its a wash. Leonard, Shumpert, Faried, Vucevic... there were plenty of better options. And the last thing we needed was another stretch 4. Morris is a below average bench player and was a lousy choice.

Failing to rebuild over the last few seasons and instead "retooling" was a massive failure and waste of time. The Suns could have gotten big windfalls by trading Nash and Hill during 2011 and 2012 but instead felt pushing for an 8th seed (and failing even in that) was a better use of their time.

They dodged a gigcantic bullet when New Orleans saved them from their own stupidity and matched Eric Gordon's contract. If that had not happened it would count as a "-1,000,000" when weighing their moves. We would he hamstrung against the cap for several years with a 30 win team.

What does it say about Blanks that he made it his top priority in the offseason to sign a multi-year contract with a horrible player that no one wanted?

In nearly 3 years this front office has failed to accumulate anything worth building around. We have invested in players that are either just plain horrible or in role players.

So... here we are in year 3 and we are the worst team in the conference...

Their future is not horrible, but only because they lucked out and didnt get Gordon and because by pure dumb luck the Lakers MIGHT end up in the lotto. We are in a decent position to build from here on out, and I dont remotely trust the current regime, who in 3 years put together this cicrus, to be the ones to handle it.

[Revived]

Its not really their individual moves that have been the problem. Talent-wise, they are decent at trades.

Its more the fact that they appear to have no real long-term plan for this team, and their lack of balls of pulling the trigger on deals, i.e not making moves when the time is right. See: Harden, James.

How? They do have a real long term plan. They just as much a long term plan as OKC did before they formed the big 3. The same long term plan that the Cavs had after LeBron left. The same long term plan that UTA had after trading D-Will. The same plan GSW had before drafting Curry.

The plan is simple: Suck and use those high draft picks to get some good players.

As for the Harden trade, neither you nor me know what OKC wanted. The Thunder likely wanted someone identical to Harden who can provide instant offense off the bench and someone that move around the floor quickly and get open to be a catch and shoot guy. We don't have anyone on this team that's better than Kevin Martin at doing that.

We can't assume that OKC wanted to trade us Harden. I don't even think they wanna trade Perkins. He may not bring much stats wise but he's their leader, their toughness guy etc. OKC fans and players all love him for his intangibles.

[Revived]

These guys were not around for the Amare departure so they get no credit or blame for that.

Calling Morris a "+1" is a joke. At best you could say its a wash. Leonard, Shumpert, Faried, Vucevic... there were plenty of better options. And the last thing we needed was another stretch 4. Morris is a below average bench player and was a lousy choice.

Failing to rebuild over the last few seasons and instead "retooling" was a massive failure and waste of time. The Suns could have gotten big windfalls by trading Nash and Hill during 2011 and 2012 but instead felt pushing for an 8th seed (and failing even in that) was a better use of their time.

They dodged a gigcantic bullet when New Orleans saved them from their own stupidity and matched Eric Gordon's contract. If that had not happened it would count as a "-1,000,000" when weighing their moves. We would he hamstrung against the cap for several years with a 30 win team.

What does it say about Blanks that he made it his top priority in the offseason to sign a multi-year contract with a horrible player that no one wanted?

In nearly 3 years this front office has failed to accumulate anything worth building around. We have invested in players that are either just plain horrible or in role players.

So... here we are in year 3 and we are the worst team in the conference...

Their future is not horrible, but only because they lucked out and didnt get Gordon and because by pure dumb luck the Lakers MIGHT end up in the lotto. We are in a decent position to build from here on out, and I dont remotely trust the current regime, who in 3 years put together this cicrus, to be the ones to handle it.

So your basis for the hating on the Suns FO is that they got "lucky" in not making any bad moves?

That makes sense.

I would rather be lucky than bad. I think when HOU traded for Harden, they lucked out that he turned out the way he did. When Miami got LeBron, they lucked out that LeBron choose them. When the Bulls got MJ, they lucked out he became that good.

Wanna talk more about luck?

Every team has its fair share of good and bad luck.

[DRK]

Its not really their individual moves that have been the problem. Talent-wise, they are decent at trades.

Its more the fact that they appear to have no real long-term plan for this team, and their lack of balls of pulling the trigger on deals, i.e not making moves when the time is right. See: Harden, James.

The plan is simple: Suck and use those high draft picks to get some good players.

If that was their plan all along, how can you explain the signing of Scola and O'Neal? Not to mention burying Marshall on the bench for half a season, and not moving Gortat when his value was high?

[phrazbit]

So your basis for the hating on the Suns FO is that they got "lucky" in not making any bad moves?

That makes sense.

I would rather be lucky than bad. I think when HOU traded for Harden, they lucked out that he turned out the way he did. When Miami got LeBron, they lucked out that LeBron choose them. When the Bulls got MJ, they lucked out he became that good.

Wanna talk more about luck?

Every team has its fair share of good and bad luck.

lol, we ARE bad. We are really really bad. We got lucky in that New Orleans didnt match Gordon. That was one aspect of "luck", as for the rest of whats happened... our team with roughly 2 guys of starting quality, one player on our entire roster that can be called "above average". That certainly isnt luck, and it isnt good. And its inexcusable that in 3 years this 18-39 team, without even young players to attach future hopes on, is the best they could do.

[Revived]

Its not really their individual moves that have been the problem. Talent-wise, they are decent at trades.

Its more the fact that they appear to have no real long-term plan for this team, and their lack of balls of pulling the trigger on deals, i.e not making moves when the time is right. See: Harden, James.

The plan is simple: Suck and use those high draft picks to get some good players.

If that was their plan all along, how can you explain the signing of Scola and O'Neal? Not to mention burying Marshall on the bench for half a season, and not moving Gortat when his value was high?

Like I said earlier, signing of Scola is more than likely an investment. He still has a lot of trade value especially on such a generous contract that he's currently on.

Both those guys were signed because they are older experienced vets...a team with no vets and all guys under the age of 30 means a lot of drama and tension in the lockerroom.

As for Marshall, I think that's partially why Gentry was fired. He wasn't developing Marshall through real game minutes. Plus we had an over abundance of PGs with Telfair already on the roster.

I think the Suns FO may believe in Gortat as their future center (even though he will be old then) OR they intend to ship him off on draft day to move up spots. I can envision seeing the Suns trade the LAL pick + Gortat to move into the top 10 or top 8.

[Revived]

So your basis for the hating on the Suns FO is that they got "lucky" in not making any bad moves?

That makes sense.

I would rather be lucky than bad. I think when HOU traded for Harden, they lucked out that he turned out the way he did. When Miami got LeBron, they lucked out that LeBron choose them. When the Bulls got MJ, they lucked out he became that good.

Wanna talk more about luck?

Every team has its fair share of good and bad luck.

lol, we ARE bad. We are really really bad. We got lucky in that New Orleans didnt match Gordon. That was one aspect of "luck", as for the rest of whats happened... our team with roughly 2 guys of starting quality, one player on our entire roster that can be called "above average". That certainly isnt luck, and it isnt good. And its inexcusable that in 3 years this 18-39 team, without even young players to attach future hopes on, is the best they could do.

Listen man, EVERY team with the exception of the Lakers have been through bad years. VERY bad years. The Celtics who are the best franchise in NBA history has had to go through some awful, disastrous times. The Sonics, the Heat, the Clippers all went through hard times. And now their sitting atop.

So surely a franchise like the Phoenix Suns will do it too. No team (except for LAL) will never be bad for a few seasons. No team.

[phrazbit]

Listen man, EVERY team with the exception of the Lakers have been through bad years. VERY bad years. The Celtics who are the best franchise in NBA history has had to go through some awful, disastrous times. The Sonics, the Heat, the Clippers all went through hard times. And now their sitting atop.

So surely a franchise like the Phoenix Suns will do it too. No team (except for LAL) will never be bad for a few seasons. No team.

Okay... great. I dont think anyone is claiming we are not going through some bad years. There is a reason we are going through bad years. We have a front office who has no plan, do direction, really poor scouting, and awful free agent priorities.

How about we get rid of them... because I dont like bad years.

[Revived]

How about we get rid of them... because I dont like bad years.

Then maybe sports shouldn't be one of your best interests.

In sports, teams will go through bad years. Even the great Sam Presti will go through bad years.

May I suggest you get into reading?

[phrazbit]

Then maybe sports shouldn't be one of your best interests.

In sports, teams will go through bad years. Even the great Sam Presti will go through bad years.

May I suggest you get into reading?

GREAT point. Seriously, hats off. That was a grandiose display of logic there.

This is a debate you started (and you requested people keep it civil... hypocrite), but now you're taking the stance that it does not matter if our front office sucks because at some point EVERYONE sucks? Thats fantastic.

Most front offices that over the span of 3 years see their team get progressively worse both on the court and on paper lose their jobs. But I guess everyone who ever fired those front offices should instead "take up reading".

By the way... is "reading" something you look down upon? That would explain a lot.

[GrantHill]

Babby is solid but Blanks is just flat out terrible. Look at the aquisitions of Marshall, Morris, Johnson, Zeller Beasley, players that were supposed to have potential. You really can't give credit to Blanks on the Scola claim or O'Neal signing. Every damn GM would look good making those moves, these guys were finished products and you knew what you would get out of them. I'd rather not mention Blanks absolutely stupid press conferences and statements about players (best shooter in the world / Luke Zeller).

[asudevil]

IMO the moves the front office has made over the past few seasons were with the idea of making the team better. and many of those moves have just made us worse, and put us in a position to be in cellar of the west.

We signed Scola because we THOUGHT we had the talent to compete for a playoff slot. now that we arent, its easy to twist it into a "we signed him to trade him for assets."

i'm going to agree with phrazbit, and say that we've gotten LUCKY. we got lucky that Gordon got matched by NO, and we got lucky that LA has had a disastrous season.

this same front office signed Childress/Warrick and traded Barbosa for Turk.

and this is the same front office that is for some reason trading for pieces you build with around a star player.....which we do not have.

[Revived]

Babby/Blanks did NOT sign Childress or Warrick. Babby/Blanks did NOT trade for Turkoglu.

Those were all moves made by Sarver after firing Kerr and before hiring Babby/Blanks.

[Saberestar]

This FO is not that bad, it is worse.They are blind about recognize talent in the league or in the draft. They tried to be competitive and....FAIL. They have no identity, and they are making horrible signings and decisions all the time. Shannon Brown?? Sebastian telfair??Wesley Jhonson?Beasley?Markieff??Marshall??Zeller-Garret?? Lindsey Hunter?? !Oh my god, his better adquisition is P.J. Tuker....is embarrassing.
Sarver is the problem too, because he has signed this FO and let Kerr go for money.

[GrantHill]

Those were all moves made by Sarver after firing Kerr and before hiring Babby/Blanks.

Fine you don't put the blame on Babby/Blanks but on the other hand praise them for their Scola/Dragic signing? Do you know who the driving force behind those aquisitions was? Right, Sarver. Blanks wanted Raymond Felton.

[bigfoot]

Here's another way to look at it and right now it doesn't look like the front office has done too badly. We'll know better within a year or two.

Pluses
Dragic
Gortat
Scola (great trade potential)
Dudley
Tucker
O'Neal
Lakers 1st round pick 2013
Lakers 1st round pick 2015
Minny's 1st round pick 2013-2015

Zero (too soon to tell)
Morris Kief
Morris Marcus
Marshall
Garrett
Johnson
Replaced Gentry with Hunter
Denver's 2nd round pick
Toronto's 2nd round pick

Minuses
Brown
Beasley
Frye (only because contract is too big ... but this was Sarvers's fault)



Edit: and by front office I mean Blanks, Babby, and Sarver because they all play a role.