A massive, gigantic gulf in talent, impact and dominance.
Ok, ease up a bit Ardee. I am asking a serious question here with all good intentions.
Look, you know myself and others rank Wilt outside of the 'traditional' of what is classified to as the immortal 6. I have flip flopping #10-11. I also have KG right below him, so I hope you can see I am not trying to start a ridiculous comparison of Wilt vs Sheed or something here.
In your very own thread 'reasonable ranking of KG, you had posters placing him top 10, 11-13 range, so I hope we can loose all the animosity here. Cool?
1) Wilt is arguably THE greatest scorer in NBA history. You open the record books, it's not Jordan, it's not Kobe, it's all Wilt. His footwork was incredible, he was 7'1 and could power his way to the rim like Shaq yet at the same time he possessed a fade away jumper much like Dirk.
This is not my feeling on him at all. The greatest center stage act ever, but not scorer, and not close. No other player in the history of this league had his teammates feed him the ball some much so where he could average 50 points a game or do you not remember it took 69 FGA's for him to score 100. Hence why his own offense only propelled his teams so far.
Sure, he could power to the rim but his game was nothing like Shaq's. Only that he was of similar height and largest athlete during his tenure. I won't even get into the Dirk comment. Did you not notice in the highlight video you posted you rarely saw the ball actually go into the basket? But enough about that.
It's funny that the fadeaway was KG's main scoring weapon, and for Wilt it was just one in a vast arsenal. The scoring gap is so massive it's not worth discussing.
But not in his later years, not once his scoring impact was recognized. I get that Wilt was a better inside presence then KG but look at Wilt's second half of his career, 67+, his scoring had to take a backseat to perform the way he did in other area's. Especially after rule changes and such.
2) Wilt is one of the three best rebounders ever, along with Russell and Rodman. I understand the pace factor but earlier in his career he was averaging close to 30 rebounds per game. They had to widen the lane just so that he couldn't catch every offensive rebound and stuff it down the opposing centers throat. It's not just numbers. Wilt attacked the boards like they were food, and he was a starving man.
I appreciate KG was a great rebounder, but Wilt has 11 rebounding titles while KG has 2.
Yes but to understand the pace factor, you also have to understand the inefficiency league factor and difference in finishing at the rim factor. You also had Baylor, Petit, Lucas averaging 19+/game some years but Wilt was still leaps and bounds bigger and more athletic then almost anyone he played against, so he did exactly what he was supposed to do. I do not think rebounding titles is a fair way to look at things here given difference in position, game played and most importantly era. The same way that I don't think because KAJ has the most points scored that he was the greatest scorer.
3) Shot-blocking. KG was probably a better PnR and team defender, but no one except Russell was a better shot blocker than the Dipper. KG was not known for his shot blocking in any case. Wilt probably blocked 6-8 shots a night. In today's slower environment, with less run and gun play which doesn't allow the defense to get settled, it would probably be more.
We both know shot blocking has little value in terms of overall defense. Now because that game was played much more traditional positional back then, maybe shot blocking held more zest back in his days. Players wouldn't be scared of Wilt today and stop to pull up a 17 foot inefficient jump shot. he would be called for more often for 3 in the key, have to deal with the 3 point line and players wanting to make him a poster.
This is where KG, to me, makes up the difference. Able to guard to effect all 5 positions on the court even if the flash of say 'the shot block' isn't there. Agile, much like Russell but was still required to be the teams offensive anchor as well when we know he isn't a true anchor on O.
1960 G3 vs. Nationals: 53 points, ? rebounds (playoff record at the time for pts)
1962 G5 vs. Nationals: 56 pts, 35 rebs (breaks his own playoff record)
1962 G7 vs Celtics : 22 pts, 21 rebs (7/14 shooting - Warriors were on the verge of pulling off this upset but Sam James hit a clutch shot. Wilt was undoubtedly fronted by the entire Celtics frontline, as was the case for most of his games vs. Celtics in mid-60s, a defensive strategy which would have been illegal in 80s/90s mind you)
1964 G7 vs. Hawks: 39 pts, 26 rebs, 12 blocks (many of which led to 14-0 run…and scored 50 pts a couple of days earlier in the pivotal game 5)
1965 G7 vs. Celtics: 30 pts, 32 rebs (famous game where Havlichek stole the ball, had 30/26 to save team from elimination the game before)
1968 G7 vs Celtics: 14 pts, 34 rebs, (wilt’s role different, but he definitely could have stepped up offensively in the second half)
1969 G7 vs. Celtics: 18 pts, 27 rebs (injured in final 6 minutes of game, attempted to come back, coach held him back...and Lakers end up losing close game on a lucky shot by Don Nelson)
1970 G7 vs. Suns: 30 pts, 27 rebs, 11 blocks (Lakers come back from down 3-1, and Wilt was 34 at the time)
1970 G7 vs. Knicks: 21 pts, 24 rebs (45 pts 27 rebs in the game before this to save Lakers from elimination, and AGAIN, he is 34 years old)
1966 Game 5 vs. Celtics: 46 points, 34 rebounds in an 8 point loss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgEmNgfscIg#t=3m34s1968 Game 6 vs. Knicks: 25 points, 27 rebounds in an 18 point win. Little known fact is that Chamberlain led BOTH TEAM in points, rebounds, and assists for the entire series, whilst nursing an assortment of injuries, including his annual shin splints. This against two Hall Of Fame bigs Walt Bellamy & Willis Reed.
1970 Game 5 vs. Suns: 36 points, 14 rebounds in a 17 point win
1971 Game 7 vs. Bulls: 25 points, 18 rebounds in an 11 point win
1973 Game 7 vs. Bulls: 21 points, 28 rebounds in a 3 point win (Bulls had the ball and a one point lead with 30 or so seconds left in the 4th. Norm Van Lier goes up for the shot only to have it rejected by Wilt down court right to Gail Goodrich for the go ahead basket.
7 finals and only 2 titles, both coming after he transformed his game from your first point made in this thread (scoring).
Look, the fancy box score stats are nice but the context around them take away from Wilt's impact with me. If we are saying teammates and coaches are the catalyst here then look no further to the 08 Celtic's, when KG like Wilt could concentrate on the main part of his game and see the result.
KG gave you almost 10 years of 20/10+ while never taking more then 19.6 FGA/game but affecting the floor much more defensively in total court covered, much like Russell. So what do you credit (x) amount of lesser rebounds, once translated in era, but with much more court defensive impact? Especially when Wilt isn't going to shot block any better then what we have already seen.
If we are talking era differences, what about KG would not excel in Wilt's era? I don't think individual accolades should be the difference maker here given the difference in competition faced.
Wilt couldn't cover court like Russell did so I know he couldn't match KG. While Wilt was the more prolific scorer, and some by team design much earlier in his career, this doesn't mean to me that he was far and away the better scorer (although more efficient but context by position here) or that it is the difference maker on who was the better player. Wilt had a lot of luck on era played and timing that to me, overvalue his accomplishments listed.
So really, there's no debate. The only aspect of basketball that KG was better at than Wilt was team defense, nothing else. Wilt was a better scorer, rebounder, shot-blocker, passer, big game player, and had far tougher competition (going up against the GOAT defensive player in Russell). No contest.
Well KG had a tough conference as well (no need to rehash that) and I disagree about passing. Another stat which Wilt was given full reign of the ball to work with while his players scored. KG has always been a non-selfish player averaging around 5 assists a game for nearly 10 years.
To me, while Wilt may have done certain aspects of the game at a higher level during certain points of his career, KG looks to have done all things more consistently, even if some were at a lower level individually then Wilt throughout his prime.
So again, I am not sold here but just wanted to spark some interesting conversation with no disrespect intended.
). IIRC KG's game doesn't draw as many fouls as other greats either FWIW
