Issues arising when constructing deals as multiple trades

[ep1987]

Several ambiguities arise when larger deals are constructed as several non-simultaneous mini-trades.

1. Can a team exceed the 15 player limit as part of a sub-trade?

2. Within a deal can a team use cap room (exceeding cap by less than 100k) or exceptions (taking them above the cap) to acquire a player in a sub-trade and then trade away a player in another sub-trade and receive a trade exception?

Larry Coon says: "Teams that are under the cap when initiating a trade cannot receive a trade exception, even if they end up over the cap as a result of the trade."

3. How about the reverse, can a team trade away a player and receive a trade exception in a sub-trade and then use cap room to acquire a player in another sub-trade?

Here is a trade in which 1 and 2 were avoided, but 3 was used: http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=87543.0

4. Larry Coon says: "Also, if a team is over the cap when it acquires a player, it cannot include that player in an aggregated trade for two months."

Does this refer to cap status before the deal is initiated, before the sub-trade in which the player is acquired, after the sub-trade in which the player is acquired, after the entirety of the deal or more than one of the above. Also does this apply to receiving two aggregated players in return for said player before the two month period has elapsed?

Thanks for any help.

[ep1987]

5. Can two teams view non-simultaneous deals differently?

Team A's perspective

Team A (1.5m over cap) deals player A (3.7m) receiving trade exception

Team A receives Player B (1.9m) using cap room

Team B's perspective

Team B (1.75m under cap) deals Player B (1.9m)

Team B receives player A (3.7m) using cap room (exceed cap by less than 100k)

[DBoys]

There is no such thing as a sub-trade. A trade at all times is a singular transaction in which a certain number of teams swap assets according to CBA rules.

[ep1987]

I agree with you; when a deal is viewed differently by two teams in order to create maximum exceptions etc. all that is required is that the deal as constructed on your side is legal.

However there are still ambiguities.

Yes or No on the following:

1. Can a team present a deal in which (via the way it is constucted from their side) they are temporarily over the 15 player limit? (taking things literally; assume yes)

2. Can a team use cap room and receive a trade exception in the same trade? (taking things literally; assume yes but only if over cap at start of trade)

3. "Also, if a team is over the cap when it acquires a player, it cannot include that player in an aggregated trade for two months." (taking things literally; applies to cap status post trade)

How did i do?

[DBoys]

FWIW It never becomes more than one trade, no matter what angle you look from. And there is no such thing as "temporarily." If you do a trade, it is a single event. If you have 15 players on your roster, and you trade away 1 in a trade, you can't get back more than 1. If you trade away 2, you can't get back more than 2.

Assuming you mean a NS trade exception: No. However, the only teams that can "use cap room" are those below the cap. Those above the cap have no cap room to use, and must do transactions using exceptions. Correct that his salary cannot be aggregated within a trade for 2 months.

[ep1987]

So what happens when a team 1m above the cap deals a 10m player to a team with cap room?

They are eligible to recieve a NS trade exception but now have 9m in cap room to take back additional salary.

Do you claim that they are forced to use TPE even though "An exception is the mechanism that allows a team to make trades or sign players and finish over the salary cap."

[DBoys]

If a team with around $60M in Team Salary trades away a $10M player for a pick, they do not gain cap room to take salary. They get a $10M NS TE, and their Team Salary for cap purposes after such a transaction would still be $60M ($50M in salary plus $10M TE).

They can renounce their TE if they wish. But until and unless they do so, they have no cap room, as they remain over the cap..

[ep1987]

Thanks, of course that makes perfect sense.

I take it that Garfield has invited you to our fantasy league based on the cba?