Official Tobias Harris watch thread (The End)

[blazza18]

Literally lol'd

[AussieBuck]

The think that pisses me off most is that I've come to except that we aren't going to swing for the fences so I had come to peace with the idea of a hard working smart players team lacking a superstar. Given that the Tobes/Ersan/Sanders with Henson and Luc/Udoh group works together so well in theory. Tobes is the inside/outside SF that makes that group work into the future. Add a Reddick in free agency and a young PG and you have a team. Instead the **** in charge cling to the $wag dickheads and a **** 8th seed locking up rental. **** **** tards.

[JayMKE]

The issues with Tobes' D have been always overblown. He was never out on the court long enough, if he made one mistake he'd be in Skiles doghouse and out of the next couple games. He certainly isn't worse than Gooden or Monta yet they continued to play, that's no way for a young player to learn. He'd get lost sometimes but he's a good enough athlete and hard enough worker that I don't think defense will be an issue for him in the long term. Kid is still only 20, only play one season in college before getting next to no time here. He's still learning the game and needs playing time to develop, looks like he'll get that in Orlando.

[blazza18]

Tobes D was just an excuse for the coaching staff not to play him. No way they wanted to take the lime light away from the back court. Let them chuck and keep them happy.

[AussieBuck]

Ersan had to fight for game time behind Warrick and Gooden, two of the bottom 10 players to get regular minutes in the league. He had to start shooting like Dirk to get more than half a game. You're either a Skiles guy or you're not. Oh and for the guys who say Boylan is a Skiles clone, he isn't he's a copy of a copy special Michael Keaton Multiplicity style.

[Frank Nova]

Tobes D was just an excuse for the coaching staff not to play him. No way they wanted to take the lime light away from the back court. Let them chuck and keep them happy.

+1. Well said.

Tobes was a liability because u can't ever use a young players growing pains as ur scapegoat. Skiles intentionally played himself out of Milwaukee but wasn't gonna risk his future as a head coach somewhere else "intentionally tanking" by letting the young guys play. Then Boylan comes and is auditioning for a promotion and like I said before, u can't use a player like Tobes as a scapegoat if ur giving him significant playing time and we are not winning games, that still falls directly on the head coach (Boylan). So u make an excuse like "he hasn't earned PT because his defense hasn't caught up yet" and he becomes a habitual benchwarmer.

I personally think someone in the FO felt bad for him and did him a favor sending him somewhere he could properly develop. I wish Tobes the best, he was/is someone I had high hopes for. But it's still hard to determine what he really is, Josh Selby or Jimmy Butler? Or in lamen terms, Summer league hero or NBA contributor? Although at such a young age and mature demeanor, I could see him winning a MIP award or something savvy like that 1 of these days.

Ill still take Redick over Tobes without question. SG is such a weak position and Redick has already developed. We can draft a freshman wing player like Archie Goodwin or Glenn Robinson III and be right back in the same position with a replacement for Tobias. Shooters and hard workers like Redick don't come around very often. Athletic raw wings are a dime a dozen.

[gbmb34]

It would be truly amazing if Hammond somehow turned Bogut + the 10th spot in the 2011 draft into 1.3 seasons of Monta Ellis/Udoh/ one-third of a season of Redick. Looks like that will happen. And securing an extension in the process. Snagging the 9th seed for the 3rd year in a row would be the cherry. Astonishing stuff really.

Good summary. But this shouldn't be anything new. We've lit assets on fire for five years now under Hammond.

How many of those "assets" have done anything of substance in the league after the Bucks traded them?

I'll wait.

[AussieBuck]

It would be truly amazing if Hammond somehow turned Bogut + the 10th spot in the 2011 draft into 1.3 seasons of Monta Ellis/Udoh/ one-third of a season of Redick. Looks like that will happen. And securing an extension in the process. Snagging the 9th seed for the 3rd year in a row would be the cherry. Astonishing stuff really.

Good summary. But this shouldn't be anything new. We've lit assets on fire for five years now under Hammond.

How many of those "assets" have done anything of substance in the league after the Bucks traded them?

I'll wait.

We'll wait for you to regroup and get the point.

[Sigra]

All Harris has done in his career so far is be a productive offensive player whenever he's gotten a legitimate opportunity to play. Check out the #s when he gets 20+ minutes per game. Harris producing for the Magic was the easiest thing in the world to see coming because he has always produced when given a legit opportunity. it.

He is producing on offense. And yes it was the easiest thing in the world to see. I took him in our fantasy leauge as soon as I heard about trade so I expected his good numbers indeed. Still that doesn't mean that we shouldn't trade him for Redick. Offense is just part of game. We knew that he can score and be productive stat wise. We traded him because he couldn't remember basic defensive sets that we run. Orlando clearly doesn't care about defense right now and that is good for him but him scoring on bad team is really no suprise and should not be a reason to criticise Hammond and this trade. If you asked Hammond before trade hapen even he would say to you that he expect Harris to produce good numbers in bad Orlando team. Kind of same as Sessions situation. Or Gooden. Players who can produce stats in bad teams but are not inteligent enough to be part of good teams. Move on. Nothing to see here.

[Sigra]

But this doesn't change their future so I simply can't muster the anger you guys have.

If Harris becomes the player some of us think he can become it absolutely will have an impact on the Bucks' future or what could have been their future.

But you felt same about Sessions. Who cares what some of you think.

[Sigra]

That's where I am. Maybe he's only a 15 PPG guy, but that's what Redick is. Why trade a 20 year old 15 PPG guy for a 28 year old one?

If 20 year old is Drew Gooden and 28 years old is Toni Kukoc I will tell you why.

[Sigra]

Plenty of mediocre to bad players have been putting up solid numbers for the Magic this year. The team's points have to come from somewhere

Say it again:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/360 ... e=Fielding

(see his stats in February and March when he got 30 minutes per game)

[Baddy Chuck]

Plenty of mediocre to bad players have been putting up solid numbers for the Magic this year. The team's points have to come from somewhere

Say it again:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/360 ... e=Fielding

(see his stats in February and March when he got 30 minutes per game)

And if Tobes' efficiency drops dramatically then you have a case, but as of now he's an extremely efficient scorer, unlike Gooden.

You've hugged Hammond's nuts on every move he's made, really didn't expect much different.

[Baddy Chuck]

That's where I am. Maybe he's only a 15 PPG guy, but that's what Redick is. Why trade a 20 year old 15 PPG guy for a 28 year old one?

If 20 year old is Drew Gooden and 28 years old is Toni Kukoc I will tell you why.

Except Redick is not a 28 year old Kukoc. He's been putting up career numbers, in a contract year on the same **** team you are dismissing Tobes for being on.

[SOUL]

Tobias isn't intelligent enough to run with Jennings and Monta?

Just kidding. We're happy with him so far, the Magic were actually rated a top 10 defensive team for the first 1/3 of the season before we were hit with injuries, so I don't think our coach has dropped every single philosophy as far as our defense goes. We're not the Rockets on offense. Also, Tobias hasn't really shown a lack of defensive skills, he's been quick to recover and quick off of his feet and hasn't really been burned too badly as of yet. At the very least, he shows decent defensive instinct, he's not a doormat, and frankly, if he continues to produce on offense and get even better, then I'll gladly take that defense. I don't think it's fair assessment to say we don't care about defense, but we're pretty much throwing all of our young guys to the fire.

[paul]

Plenty of mediocre to bad players have been putting up solid numbers for the Magic this year. The team's points have to come from somewhere

Say it again:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/360 ... e=Fielding

(see his stats in February and March when he got 30 minutes per game)

And if Tobes' efficiency drops dramatically then you have a case, but as of now he's an extremely efficient scorer, unlike Gooden.

You've hugged Hammond's nuts on every move he's made, really didn't expect much different.

Given how much Sigra defended Gooden I can only assume comparing someone to him is in fact a compliment.

[Sigra]

Plenty of mediocre to bad players have been putting up solid numbers for the Magic this year. The team's points have to come from somewhere

Say it again:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/360 ... e=Fielding

(see his stats in February and March when he got 30 minutes per game)

And if Tobes' efficiency drops dramatically then you have a case, but as of now he's an extremely efficient scorer, unlike Gooden.

You've hugged Hammond's nuts on every move he's made, really didn't expect much different.

Gooden was apsolutly great at offense and stat wise last year in February and March (when he got 30 MPG). He even won player of the week award. And when he was young in Cleveland he looked just as good as Harris look now. Stats are not everything.

[Sigra]

Also, Tobias hasn't really shown a lack of defensive skills, he's been quick to recover and quick off of his feet and hasn't really been burned too badly as of yet. At the very least, he shows decent defensive instinct, he's not a doormat, and frankly, if he continues to produce on offense and get even better, then I'll gladly take that defense. I don't think it's fair assessment to say we don't care about defense, but we're pretty much throwing all of our young guys to the fire.

Who he defended so far playing in Orlando? Hawes and some garbage players in first game? Wait until you play some real team with good wing players.

[Sigra]

Except Redick is not a 28 year old Kukoc.

Only 2 guys in last 20 years who fit this criteria:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =ast_per_g

[Badgerlander]

Edit: I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact, and was in no way fair comment, and was motivated purely by malice. And I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you, or your family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.