The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2)

[Ginobili]

Man I remember when Jerry Stackhouse would have nights like Lebron just had, except against far superior defenses and with worse teammates, and no one would care. But Lebron gets multiple threads made with people literally orgasming. Makes you wonder how much of it is ESPN hype, how much of it is ignorance of history, or how much of it is people being desperate to prop Lebron up. I wonder what would happen just for a day if Alonzo Gee got the social media hype James gets, prbly would get GOAT peak discussion as well

Stop trying so hard.

[SideshowBob]

SideshowBob, what do you think the Heat's ORtg will be at season's end?

If they keep up the pace we've seen in the last half of the season, about 114.5ish, coming close to the 04 Mavs record. If they keep up the pace we've seen in the month of February, they should break 115. Lebron might be able to match Nash's 05 ON court ORTG in that situation as well. We're talking about a +18ish offense with him on the floor for the last 21 games.

[Jordan23Forever]

If they keep up the pace we've seen in the last half of the season, about 114.5ish, coming close to the 04 Mavs record. If they keep up the pace we've seen in the month of February, they should break 115. Lebron might be able to match Nash's 05 ON court ORTG in that situation as well. We're talking about a +18ish offense with him on the floor for the last 21 games.

The '04 Mavs don't have the highest ORtg ever (112.1; several teams have had better), so I'm not sure what you're referring to here.

[colts18]

If they keep up the pace we've seen in the last half of the season, about 114.5ish, coming close to the 04 Mavs record. If they keep up the pace we've seen in the month of February, they should break 115. Lebron might be able to match Nash's 05 ON court ORTG in that situation as well. We're talking about a +18ish offense with him on the floor for the last 21 games.

The '04 Mavs don't have the highest ORtg ever (112.1; several teams have had better), so I'm not sure what you're referring to here.

They have the highest O rating ever relative to the league average (+9.4)

[GreenHat]

If they keep up the pace we've seen in the last half of the season, about 114.5ish, coming close to the 04 Mavs record. If they keep up the pace we've seen in the month of February, they should break 115. Lebron might be able to match Nash's 05 ON court ORTG in that situation as well. We're talking about a +18ish offense with him on the floor for the last 21 games.

The '04 Mavs don't have the highest ORtg ever (112.1; several teams have had better), so I'm not sure what you're referring to here.

In league's where it was much easier to score.

As the previous poster said I believe SideshowBob was referring to relative to league.

[GreenHat]

I was thinking on this yesterday, but how much of Lebron's improvement can we credit to Ray Allen? We hear about the two having shooting contests after practice, and it seems Lebron has become an elite shooter without really even being able to practice it in the offseason.

Also, Lebron is probably the best in the league right now at hitting open 3 point shooters. I mean, he looks like Nash the way he hits guys in the pocket with no defense around. It seems pretty obvious Ray had some input on where and how shooters like to catch the ball and L incorporated it.

Credit also the fact that he's such a deadly shooter, he opens up the floor for everyone else to do their thing. I know his play hasn't exactly been Impressive, but I really think he brings a lot to that team.

To be honest, now that I have this thought, I see Ray's fingerprints all over Lebron's game this year. Hopefully it will show up in his free throw percentage at some point.

To be honest I think it just has to do with getting better as a shooter. Lebron has had stretches where he shot the three well, he's just been able to sustain it now. If it is this easy to become a better shooter from being around Ray then he is going to make more money as a shooting coach than he did as a player.

I'm also skeptical of Ray teaching Lebron how to pass to three point shooters. He's been doing that for years.

[SideshowBob]

The '04 Mavs don't have the highest ORtg ever (112.1; several teams have had better), so I'm not sure what you're referring to here.

As other have stated, in the regular season, the best way to compare offenses across eras is by looking at them relative to the league average offense.

This is because the league average ORTG and DRTG are equal, and therefore, the best way to gauge the quality of an offense is to see how it performed relative to the defenses of that year. The same idea applies in comparing defenses.

For individual games, it therefore makes more sense to simply compare the ORTG that was put up to the seasonal DRTG of the opposing team, and the same applies in the playoffs. Using the league average works in the regular season, because if you were to take the average of every defense each team faced, there would be little to no deviation from the true league average.

[SideshowBob]

Didn't realize RealGM's player stats page broke down advanced stats by month.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/LeBron-James/NBA/250/2013/By_Split/Advanced_Stats/By_Month/Regular_Season

[colts18]

Didn't realize RealGM's player stats page broke down advanced stats by month.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/LeBron-James/NBA/250/2013/By_Split/Advanced_Stats/By_Month/Regular_Season

nba.com does too. It even has splits where you can't split it up by certain segments of the year too (like from jan 10 to Feb 25).

Since recovering from Ankle injury (21 G)

Code: Select all

MP    PTS    TRB    AST    STL    BLK    TOV   TS%    eFG%   GmSc   ORTG
38.3  29.3   7.7    7.8    2.0    0.7    2.9  .694   .655    27.2   136

Miami's offense in that stretch: +12.3 (117.8) ORtg

Miami's offense with Lebron on the floor (21 G): 122.6 ORTG.

In February (13 G): 127.8 ORTG

Which site are you getting the on floor stat from?

[SideshowBob]

nba.com does too. It even has splits where you can't split it up by certain segments of the year too (like from jan 10 to Feb 25).

Oh I know that, but RealGM lists monthly/serieswise PER as well. I should have mentioned that .

Which site are you getting the on floor stat from?

http://bkref.com/tiny/BPB7C

Also, I clearly made a math error last night for the number for the February number. It should have been 124.2

[JordansBulls]

Quick question?

Lebron's Game Scr in 2009 was a 24.3 and PER of 31.67 with MPG of 37.7
Lebron's Game Scr in 2010 was a 25.6 and PER of 31.11 with MPG of 39.0
Lebron's Game Scr in 2012 was a 22.9 and PER of 30.74 with MPG of 37.5
Lebron's Game Scr in 2013 is currently 24.7 and PER of 31.87 with MPG of 38.5


On the surface it would appear his 2010 he was more productive overall.

[SideshowBob]

Quick question?

Lebron's Game Scr in 2009 was a 24.3 and PER of 31.67 with MPG of 37.7
Lebron's Game Scr in 2010 was a 25.6 and PER of 31.11 with MPG of 39.0
Lebron's Game Scr in 2012 was a 22.9 and PER of 30.74 with MPG of 37.5
Lebron's Game Scr in 2013 is currently 24.7 and PER of 31.87 with MPG of 38.5


On the surface it would appear his 2010 he was more productive overall.

Based on Game Score? Yeah. But PER doesn't weight everything exactly in the same way game score does, their formulas are clearly different. PER also takes leaguewide factors into account, which a game score also does not do.

[Woodsanity]

Quick question?

Lebron's Game Scr in 2009 was a 24.3 and PER of 31.67 with MPG of 37.7
Lebron's Game Scr in 2010 was a 25.6 and PER of 31.11 with MPG of 39.0
Lebron's Game Scr in 2012 was a 22.9 and PER of 30.74 with MPG of 37.5
Lebron's Game Scr in 2013 is currently 24.7 and PER of 31.87 with MPG of 38.5


On the surface it would appear his 2010 he was more productive overall.

Looking at the seasons Lebron definitely had a better season in 2009 and 2013 over 2010.
Game score seems to disproportionately value raw scoring volume over everything else.

[JordansBulls]

Quick question?

Lebron's Game Scr in 2009 was a 24.3 and PER of 31.67 with MPG of 37.7
Lebron's Game Scr in 2010 was a 25.6 and PER of 31.11 with MPG of 39.0
Lebron's Game Scr in 2012 was a 22.9 and PER of 30.74 with MPG of 37.5
Lebron's Game Scr in 2013 is currently 24.7 and PER of 31.87 with MPG of 38.5


On the surface it would appear his 2010 he was more productive overall.

Based on Game Score? Yeah. But PER doesn't weight everything exactly in the same way game score does, their formulas are clearly different. PER also takes leaguewide factors into account, which a game score also does not do.

This was my understanding as well that the entire league comes into play. For instance planting him in 2010, what would his PER be for instance? Any idea?

[SideshowBob]

Lebron put up a WS/48 of .420 in the month of February.

[SideshowBob]

This was my understanding as well that the entire league comes into play. For instance planting him in 2010, what would his PER be for instance? Any idea?

It does but it's not as big as you think, the weighting is the bigger driving factor.

Take a look at his PER before the pace adjustments are made (uPER):

2009: .595
2010: .596
2011: .512
2012: .575
2013: .600

So, as you can see, without any adjustments, his 2013 season has been the most productive.

Now, let's take his current year and throw it into those previous seasons.


2009: 32.0
2010: 31.3
2011: 31.7
2012: 32.1
2013: 31.9


So, this mark is still tops in any of those years.

[colts18]

LeBron is on pace for +680 for this year. That's great. But LeBron 09 has the best year since1997. He had a +871 which is absurd. 09 LeBron might be the GOAT.

[colts18]

LeBron has had a 50% FG% in 47/55 games this year. He is on pace to have 72 50 FG% games which would break Shaq's record of 68 in 1994

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... der_by=pts

[SideshowBob]

Battier / Wade / James combo was comical in February. In 139.3 minutes, they put up a 141.8 ORTG and were a net +35.1. That 3-man group is up to an ORTG of 120.3 and a net +20.8 for the season.

[Dr Positivity]

Kudos to SideshowBob for calling how this was going to be LBJ's best year and he had a shot at the PER record at the start of the year before he got it rolling, just by picking up on his athleticism and nuances in his game!