Official Tobias Harris watch thread (The End)

[whatthe_buck!?]

This trade is going from obviously-bad-from-the-outset to absolute nightmAre at lighning speed. I'm not even concerned with Bucks fans who were like "it's just Tobias Harris, it's not the end of the world" nor do I blame them even a little for holding that opinion because with the way Tobes was used it was easy to be able to say that if he was better we would've played him more and therefore how worried should we be really about losing him.

Also, throw out the fact that we traded him for a win now player when we werent in a position to "win now". the only thing Im actually concerned about is the fact that the GM WHO DRAFTED HIM AND SAW HIM PLAY IN PRACTICE ALL THE TIME traded a 20 year old without really knowing what he had. This kind of thing shouldn't really be possible when someone who gets paid to watch and scout NBA players is calling the shots should it? I feel totally defeated.

[Kerb Hohl]

I'm not mad. I just think you have no idea what you are talking about.

I am not sure how hard I am making it to understand.

My question is how you are not understanding my point. I think Scoops summed it up though I actually think Harris could be good.

[paul]

Ad hominem? You don't know what you are talking about because you've never seen Tobias play. That isn't an ad hominem attack. This is me telling you that you don't know what the **** you are talking about because you have no frame of reference. You freely admit that you don't watch any games. "Donnie, you are out of your element."

Please to be explaining the ad hominem argument in what I posted.

Re-reading what I posted, I think it is completely on point. You have to be a **** imbecile to not be able to recognize the natural scoring ability that Tobias has in his game. If you disagree, yes, you are a **** imbecile. If you are an imbecile who also doesn't even watch games, you can also **** off if you are questioning my take on things.

Wow. I never said he wasn't going to potentially be a good player.

Calm down and step away from the computer, though. Just saying that it's sometimes easier to score when Awvee Storey is guarding you down 30 points.

It's incredibly easy just to dismiss it as him playing junk time against junk players though. He's not, tonight he's played with the starters against starters and first reserves, when I was watching he was being guarded by Salmons, Patterson and Evans. Now none of them are great defenders but aside from Hayes they are as good as the Kings trot out.

The Magic are going to lose some games HUGE the rest of the way by design, but the players on the court are still going to play against roughly who they'd be playing against if it was a tie game until midway through the fourth.

Your point on guys putting up points on bad teams should definitely never be ignored and it happens a lot, but Harris has shown this offensive potential from the moment he became a Buck. He has the kind of offensive game you rarely ever see in a 19-20 year old which is why those of us who recognized it were furious with Skiles for playing Marquis F'ing Daniels over him. You mocked us mercilessly for it btw with all your 'how many extra wins', 'oh it was all Skiles fault' etc talk, but in the end you're going to look stupid for it. Which is blunt, sorry.

[Kerb Hohl]

I'm not mad. I just think you have no idea what you are talking about. I think you are as wrong about this as I would be if I proclaimed that Sanders is a great three point shooter off the dribble.

Matt LaPorta is going to be a perennial All Star! He had a .920 OPS facing Claudio Vargas every other at bat in AAA!

[Wooderson]

There are lots of guys that have similarities to him that have failed.

Here is the point. Never have I said Harris was a bad player. I defer to a lot of opinions on him. I would have not have made the rental trade.

However, when we did trade him...people that really liked him used a garbage game against Cleveland with 8 points in the last 3 minutes of the game as their OH MA GAW WORSS TRADE EVER HAMMONDZ. The point is, if you think he's good...great. That's a feather in your cap. If you want to use that as a selling point of what's to come, you'd better wait for a good sample against better players if you want to definitively say that.

John Salmons is an extreme example. I don't have time to go in and dig through players (hell, I could find a list of just Bucks) that looked good in garbage minutes and got overpaid. CV/Gadz/etc. I'm sure some of that was just bad contract signing, but there are guys there.

Pointing to garbage-time stats for a guy (that very well may) have potential in your mind is great if you think he's a good player and not a bad thing but if you get mad at somebody for saying "let's see what he can do in a game where players are actually trying" I am really curious. Calling them dense fools or whatever for not jumping on board is brutal.

Again, I think he has a smooth offensive game from what I've watched and his defense was a work in progress but I'll wait until he draws the other team's stopper over the course of a season to judge him fully. He's proven that he's going to be an NBA player and has some very nice potential. However, if you want to trumpet that he's officially arrived, let's wait on that one.

I think it's pretty clear what is going on here. If I remember correctly you are the one of the guys that downplays the importance of Skiles coaching rotations, and how poor of a talent evaluator many here believe him to be. It would make sense then to downplay how good Tobias is, since it fits in with that initial narrative.

Flash forward to now, where Tobes finally gets consistent minutes and shows up with consistent production and the same skills being used that we saw in a limited time in Milwaukee. I guess it make sense at that time to point to the fact that other guys have put up production at the end of the year when teams are in tank mode.

I guess I just don't understand downplaying the skills he's shown on the court though. It's pretty obvious what he has if you're watching. Either that or it's just another case of someone playing the contrarian card simply because this trade / the loss of Tobias is the only thing a lot of people are showing a passion about.

[DanoMac]

Harris finished with 23 and 6 tonight.

[Kerb Hohl]

There are lots of guys that have similarities to him that have failed.

Here is the point. Never have I said Harris was a bad player. I defer to a lot of opinions on him. I would have not have made the rental trade.

However, when we did trade him...people that really liked him used a garbage game against Cleveland with 8 points in the last 3 minutes of the game as their OH MA GAW WORSS TRADE EVER HAMMONDZ. The point is, if you think he's good...great. That's a feather in your cap. If you want to use that as a selling point of what's to come, you'd better wait for a good sample against better players if you want to definitively say that.

John Salmons is an extreme example. I don't have time to go in and dig through players (hell, I could find a list of just Bucks) that looked good in garbage minutes and got overpaid. CV/Gadz/etc. I'm sure some of that was just bad contract signing, but there are guys there.

Pointing to garbage-time stats for a guy (that very well may) have potential in your mind is great if you think he's a good player and not a bad thing but if you get mad at somebody for saying "let's see what he can do in a game where players are actually trying" I am really curious. Calling them dense fools or whatever for not jumping on board is brutal.

Again, I think he has a smooth offensive game from what I've watched and his defense was a work in progress but I'll wait until he draws the other team's stopper over the course of a season to judge him fully. He's proven that he's going to be an NBA player and has some very nice potential. However, if you want to trumpet that he's officially arrived, let's wait on that one.

I think it's pretty clear what is going on here. If I remember correctly you are the one of the guys that downplays the importance of Skiles coaching rotations, and how poor of a talent evaluator many here believe him to be. It would make sense then to downplay how good Tobias is, since it fits in with that initial narrative.

Flash forward to now, where Tobes finally gets consistent minutes and shows up with consistent production and the same skills being used that we saw in a limited time in Milwaukee. I guess it make sense at that time to point to the fact that other guys have put up production at the end of the year when teams are in tank mode.

I guess I just don't understand downplaying the skills he's shown on the court though. It's pretty obvious what he has if you're watching. Either that or it's just another case of someone playing the contrarian card simply because this trade / the loss of Tobias is the only thing a lot of people are showing a passion about.

The reason I downplay this stuff is because everyone overreacts to these things so much.

The one thing you are right about is that I am playing contrarian to an extent.

I play that role with the Skiles thing (don't even like him) and downplaying Harris (don't DISLIKE him).

This happens the other way. Those who thought Skiles was the bane of existence now are pointing to the fact that Boylan is a clone. Next year if they hire Adelman, it will be that Adelman got short-stacked with young talent or something.

[BUCKnation]

As said, this is sickening. This trade is like if the Brewers were slightly under .500 at the deadline and traded their top prospect for a 4th starter who might be a rental.

Orlando fans must be bluing themselves.

[Ayt]

How long will it be before Tobes has his first 20 point game? I'd guess it happens in the next 5 games.

I wouldn't normally quote myself, but LOL at the Bucks and the idiot fans who didn't see how talented Tobias was offensively over the last year and a half. He's the most naturally gifted scorer we've had since Ray Allen, and we gave him away for 30 games of an average SG who will be a UFA.

What a monumentally stupid trade.

[paul]

23/6/2/2.

9/12 from the field.

B.

U.

M.

[JayMKE]

Remember when Ramon Sessions put up great numbers on our crap team and everyone wanted to pay him 10 million a year and then he got an offer for 4 million and everyone was like HOLY **** and then we let him walk and everyone was on suicide watch and then we followed him closely until he bounced around and is now putting up ho-hum numbers on the mighty Bobcats?

This will be like that.

Can't wait to bump this in 6 years. I should start saving all the ridiculous posts now.

Nobody ever wanted to pay Ramon 10 mil a season and he would of been a great guy to have on that contract.

[LUKE23]

Through 3 for Tobias:

28.3 minutes, 17.7 points, 6.3 rebounds, 1.0 steals, 1.3 blocks, 21/31 FG.

[Badgerlander]

[Ayt]

23/6/2/2.

9/12 from the field.

B.

U.

M.

I'm shocked. Who could have predicted he could play like this?

[europa]

This would be f'n hilarious if it wasn't so f'n pathetic.

I hate this f'n team.

[blazza18]

Good for Tobes.

But I'm upset.

Good for Tobes though.

[Kerb Hohl]

What a monumentally stupid trade.

Agreed.

[bullox]

9 in the 4th quarter, including a 3 pointer at the start of the quarter to close the game to 100-71.

Salt. Grains of it.

[WRau1]

We gave up the youngest and best player in the trade for 20+ games of Redick.

[JayMKE]

Maybe this will convince Herb to fire Hammond and change the direction of this team...

naw...