Official Tobias Harris watch thread (The End)

[Sherman Douglas]

Over/under 400 pages on this thread?

September 2034: Tobias Harris enshrined in Hall of Fame, Tobias Harris watch thread crosses 4000 pages.

[humanrefutation]

It doesn't matter how good Harris ends up being. That isn't the point to any of this. If he ends up good or bad is irrelevant in why this trade was so stupid.

What matters is that if you are a team stuck in decades of mediocrity, when you are a team that isn't winning anything soon anyway, when you are a team in dire need of great young talents...why do you trade a 20yr old guy with any potential for a a 28yr old career 9/2/2 guy that can walk in 30 games?

What is the upside of the JJ trade? You know he isn't going to be an all-star. You know he isn't this great core piece that can break out. The odds are he's going to be what has been which is a below average starting SG or a 6th man off the bench guy. He isn't going to win you a title this year or the next. I mean how many of these guys does Hammond need to bring in to see they don't move the needle over the long haul.

With that being the case why would you trade a 20yr old that has shown flashes for JJ? Harris could break out and end up being an above average starter. He has the potential to be better than JJ ever will be. And if he isn't then what did you lose by not getting JJ? It's all about risk vs. reward.

When you are a mediocre team that is drafting 15ish, can't sign a great FA and don't have the assets to trade for a star then why are you giving up potential for another mediocre player? How does adding another mediocre player to a mediocre team at the expense of potential lead to anything other than more mediocrity?

Anyone that is a fan of trading 20yr old potential for 28yr old mediocrity deserves Hammond as your GM. Anyone, please explain why the reward of getting JJ is worth the risk of Harris getting good and JJ leaving after 30 games? If we’re a finals contender needing a veteran off the bench then okay I get it but we’re a mediocre team devoid of talent that just traded for more mediocrity.

This.

[Wooderson]

You guys speak of the dude as if we gave away Kevin Durant for Drew Gooden.

No, we gave up atleast a 20 year old rotation player to solidify an 8th seed we already had. It was an awful trade.

It probably was a bad trade but what do you want to do about it? We have an meddling owner. It is what it is.

And we're on a message board that's main reason for existence is analyzing transactions. Makes sense that a lot of posts are negative given the meddling owner's inability to show any sort of competence. Especially when the collective reactions of posters here has been a more accurate prediction of success than the moves themselves.

Since FTD year...

Drew Gooden/Maggette/SJax/Ellis experiment.

All were looked at as crappy moves that wouldn't do anything for the team. And look, here we are coming off back to back 9th seeds.

[Baddy Chuck]

It probably was a bad trade but what do you want to do about it? We have an meddling owner. It is what it is.

If you were fed **** for the next 10 years you still would hate the taste of **** every time you put it in your mouth and you would complain every time.

[ReddWing]

Geez, get over it already guys. I'm not happy that they gave him up but there will always be more Tobias Harrises. You guys speak of the dude as if we gave away Kevin Durant for Drew Gooden. You guys kill Hambone but you love all of his drafts aside from Alexander/Tines. We will get another guy to play SF.

With Harris gone, we love one of his drafts. I'm sure a lot people are high on Henson too, but I'm still not sold he has the awareness to be an above average starter in the frontcourt.

At this point here's Hammond's draft results:

2008: Alexander - a bust of epic magnitude in a deep draft
2009: Inconsistent player with an ego much bigger than his game. The JR Smith of PGs. Also had Holiday/Lawson go fairly soon after him, further diminishing what was once thought to be a very good pick.
2010: Sanders - Jackpot. Awesome, awesome results so far. Huge credit to Hammy.
2011: Harris - pretty much no court time the first 1.5 years, traded for Redick rental
2012: Henson - TBD

So if you don't include Henson, he's 1/4 in my book. And that's if you don't consider the fact that the Bucks actually had the 10th draft pick in 2011 traded down. The Salmons + Bulls pick swap which turned into Sanders has prevented Hammond from looking like full on clown.

Jennings was a solid pick. Its not Hammond's fault he hasn't ever matured. Harris is made out to be Scottie Pippen. People here love Henson. LRMAM is a great pick. Meeks was a solid pick. Leuer will be in league for awhile.

He has done a good job in my opinion.

[whatthe_buck!?]

It doesn't matter how good Harris ends up being.

Well it does when that's what's being argued.

EVERYONE knows that from a big picture perspective that this trade was awful.

EVERYONE knows that the front office is incompetent.

EVERYONE knows that playing for the 8th seed sucks.

Let's keep making these points though!

So what is it that youre posting about? The people who are sick to their stomachs about this trade are pretty openly letting off steam by b*tching like crazy about the awfulness of this trade, are u saying that the reason you're in here is to let off steam caused by having to read all the b*tching by b*tching about us b*tching? If u don't like reading about us b*tching about this completely depressing and disgustingly awful trade that not only doesn't move the needle closer to a championship but in fact actually moves the needle in the OPPOSITE direction then a bit of advice, stop reading! Honestly, if u and Grendon are getting more worked up and annoyed by us b*tching about the awfulness of the trade than u are by the awfulness of the trade itself then there's something wrong with u guy's ability to grasp how terrible the trade was...

[Wooderson]

Bucks play the Magic twice more this year. Tobes will knock the Bucks out of the playoffs all by himself, this thread will push the 1000 page mark and crash RealGM for good.

[ReddWing]

And we're on a message board that's main reason for existence is analyzing transactions. Makes sense that a lot of posts are negative given the meddling owner's inability to show any sort of competence. Especially when the collective reactions of posters here has been a more accurate prediction of success than the moves themselves.

Since FTD year...

Drew Gooden/Maggette/SJax/Ellis experiment.

All were looked at as crappy moves that wouldn't do anything for the team. And look, here we are coming off back to back 9th seeds.

Why aren't any of you REAL GMs then? Everybody here could build a championship roster apparently. Hammond is working for a guy that is forcing his hand. All those trades and acquisitions have Herb all over them.

[paul]

How many times do the "Bucks fan optimists" have to be horribly wrong about everything the team does before they just go away forever?

It's funny how they can defend a "Drew Gooden is awesome" thread for 100 pages but we can't discuss Tobes.

BUT THE OUTLET PASSES!!!@!@!#!!!!!OHAND1!!!!!!!!!!

[Wooderson]

Geez, get over it already guys. I'm not happy that they gave him up but there will always be more Tobias Harrises. You guys speak of the dude as if we gave away Kevin Durant for Drew Gooden. You guys kill Hambone but you love all of his drafts aside from Alexander/Tines. We will get another guy to play SF.

With Harris gone, we love one of his drafts. I'm sure a lot people are high on Henson too, but I'm still not sold he has the awareness to be an above average starter in the frontcourt.

At this point here's Hammond's draft results:

2008: Alexander - a bust of epic magnitude in a deep draft
2009: Inconsistent player with an ego much bigger than his game. The JR Smith of PGs. Also had Holiday/Lawson go fairly soon after him, further diminishing what was once thought to be a very good pick.
2010: Sanders - Jackpot. Awesome, awesome results so far. Huge credit to Hammy.
2011: Harris - pretty much no court time the first 1.5 years, traded for Redick rental
2012: Henson - TBD

So if you don't include Henson, he's 1/4 in my book. And that's if you don't consider the fact that the Bucks actually had the 10th draft pick in 2011 traded down. The Salmons + Bulls pick swap which turned into Sanders has prevented Hammond from looking like full on clown.

Jennings was a solid pick. Its not Hammond's fault he hasn't ever matured. Harris is made out to be Scottie Pippen. People here love Henson. LRMAM is a great pick. Meeks was a solid pick. Leuer will be in league for awhile.

He has done a good job in my opinion.

Jennings immaturity is a huge reason why he fell so far. So that would be Hammonds fault. Also doesn't help bringing in another me first player like Ellis to pair him with. Or putting him with a coach like Skiles who isn't known for his player development.

Prince is a good pick, but doesn't really fit anywhere and the team was trying to unload him for an 8th seed push just one week ago. The other 2nd round picks are immaterial.

Sanders/Dunleavy the only worth acquisitions in Hammonds tenure - while also wasting the 10th pick in the 2010 draft/Sessions/CV for nothing. He's hit huge on one draft pick and been terrible at everything else in 5 years here.

[paul]

And we're on a message board that's main reason for existence is analyzing transactions. Makes sense that a lot of posts are negative given the meddling owner's inability to show any sort of competence. Especially when the collective reactions of posters here has been a more accurate prediction of success than the moves themselves.

Since FTD year...

Drew Gooden/Maggette/SJax/Ellis experiment.

All were looked at as crappy moves that wouldn't do anything for the team. And look, here we are coming off back to back 9th seeds.

Why aren't any of you REAL GMs then? Everybody here could build a championship roster apparently. Hammond is working for a guy that is forcing his hand. All those trades and acquisitions have Herb all over them.

Which would be an excuse for Hammond if he hadn't just negotiated a 3 year extension.

He's either

a) Made two of the most hideously awful trades imaginable the last two deadlines by himself or
b) Happy to get paid to be the scapegoat for said trades.

Either way that excuse ended the day he signed the extension.

[ReddWing]

It probably was a bad trade but what do you want to do about it? We have an meddling owner. It is what it is.

If you were fed **** for the next 10 years you still would hate the taste of **** every time you put it in your mouth and you would complain every time.

I'm not happy with it but its Kohl that dictates the direction of the team. You all know this. There is only so mad I can get about something that cannot be changed. Herb wants the playoffs. He is old and doesn't want to watch what you want.

[Wooderson]

And we're on a message board that's main reason for existence is analyzing transactions. Makes sense that a lot of posts are negative given the meddling owner's inability to show any sort of competence. Especially when the collective reactions of posters here has been a more accurate prediction of success than the moves themselves.

Since FTD year...

Drew Gooden/Maggette/SJax/Ellis experiment.

All were looked at as crappy moves that wouldn't do anything for the team. And look, here we are coming off back to back 9th seeds.

Why aren't any of you REAL GMs then? Everybody here could build a championship roster apparently. Hammond is working for a guy that is forcing his hand. All those trades and acquisitions have Herb all over them.

I've been stating over and over again in this thread that these are probably Kohl's moves. But the Harris one is just impossible to wrap my mind around. Hammond was just given a 3 year extension! There was no need to panic into a trade like this. They still had a comfortable lead in the 8th spot to boot.

I also have no sympathy for Hammond when it comes to Gooden/SJax. Those were moves that 99% of people here knew to be atrocious. And guess what, everyone was right. If Hammond isn't smart enough or articulate enough to convince Kohl that Gooden/SJax/Monta are not the answer, than he deserves zero sympathy from anyone here.

Also, I'm pretty sure Hammond said he only took the job because he was assured he would be given full control. My how times have changed.

[paulpressey25]

I can retire. Wooderson has taken over for me.

Interesting take on the John Salmons trade. Forgot that we also got that pick swap from 17 to 15. Not sure if Larry is still there at 17 or not.

Either way, you are right. That trade is the only thing Hammond has to show for five full years of being our GM.

[EastSideBucksFan]

The only game Tobias got 30+ minutes this season he put up 18 pts/6 rebs/1blk/2 threes on 8-11 FG vs Boston on the road when he did a solid job on defense vs Paul Pierce and he only scored 11 points.

The next game he got 13 minutes for his good game.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

How many times do the "Bucks fan optimists" have to be horribly wrong about everything the team does before they just go away forever?

It's funny how they can defend a "Drew Gooden is awesome" thread for 100 pages but we can't discuss Tobes.

this is a serious question. now that he doesnt play for the milwaukee bucks whats left to discuss about tobias harris if all your going to do is bitch about why he doesnt play for the milwaukee bucks?

this is a serious question. i think we all know hes gonna be a player. why subject yourself to it?

[El Pooch Grande]

Bucks play the Magic twice more this year. Tobes will knock the Bucks out of the playoffs all by himself, this thread will push the 1000 page mark and crash RealGM for good.

My gosh I think I just woke up my roommate from LOLing so hard...great post

[blazza18]

The only game Tobias got 30+ minutes this season he put up 18 pts/6 rebs/1blk/2 threes on 8-11 FG vs Boston on the road when he did a solid job on defense vs Paul Pierce and he only scored 11 points.

The next game he got 13 minutes for his good game.

Scott Skilesd

[WEFFPIM]

How many times do the "Bucks fan optimists" have to be horribly wrong about everything the team does before they just go away forever?

It's funny how they can defend a "Drew Gooden is awesome" thread for 100 pages but we can't discuss Tobes.

this is a serious question. now that he doesnt play for the milwaukee bucks whats left to discuss about tobias harris if all your going to do is bitch about why he doesnt play for the milwaukee bucks?

this is a serious question. i think we all know hes gonna be a player. why subject yourself to it?

It's not just for us. It's to keep it on the mind of those with the team who we know read this board.

[Mad Guru]

Hey, Orlando fan here, I had never heard of Tobias Harris before he got traded to us, how did he play on your team, should I expect him to keep up this great run he has had since he got here?