Official Tobias Harris watch thread (The End)

[Sigra]

I'm not saying he will be an all-star, but we will without question regret trading Harris.

I guarantee we will not miss Harris. I made same guarantee for Sessions if you remember. I was right and you were wrong then. And it will be same again. Who don't learn from past is sure to make same mistake in future. You are great example of that.

[jgosche]

If it makes you guys feel better, I think you're funny in a manly, intimidating, lumberjack kind of way.

But really, I think my fellow Magic fan meant to compliment your fans as humorous people. Nothing more than that.

[Baddy Chuck]

I'm not saying he will be an all-star, but we will without question regret trading Harris.

I guarantee we will not miss Harris. I made same guarantee for Sessions if you remember. I was right and you were wrong then. And it will be same again. Who don't learn from past is sure to make same mistake in future. You are great example of that.

You've literally been a fan of every Hammond addition besides bringing back Ersan this season, and you were wrong about that. Maggette, Salmons, Jackson, Jefferson, Skiles etc etc. I wouldn't act like you are batting 1.000.

[Baddy Chuck]

If it makes you guys feel better, I think you're funny in a manly, intimidating, lumberjack kind of way.

But really, I think my fellow Magic fan meant to compliment your fans as humorous people. Nothing more than that.

Sigra's a Bulls fan, turned Kukoc fan, turned Bucks fan, turned Bulls fan, turned Hammond fan who loves to bash our fan base, hardcore and casual, at any chance he can get. Don't mind him. Any fan that isn't here to push an agenda or troll is welcome.

[AussieBuck]

I'm not saying he will be an all-star, but we will without question regret trading Harris.

I guarantee we will not miss Harris. I made same guarantee for Sessions if you remember. I was right and you were wrong then. And it will be same again. Who don't learn from past is sure to make same mistake in future. You are great example of that.

You've literally been a fan of every Hammond addition besides bringing back Ersan this season, and you were wrong about that. Maggette, Salmons, Jackson, Jefferson, Skiles etc etc. I wouldn't act like you are batting 1.000.

I'm sure that was a Croatian joke and he's making fun of himself for being wrong 98% of the time.

[Sigra]

23/6/2/2.

9/12 from the field.

B.

U.

M.

I'm shocked. Who could have predicted he could play like this?

We all did. I took him in our fantasy league as soon as I heard about trade. I also have Sessions in my team and I don't want him in Bucks eather.

[jgosche]

If it makes you guys feel better, I think you're funny in a manly, intimidating, lumberjack kind of way.

But really, I think my fellow Magic fan meant to compliment your fans as humorous people. Nothing more than that.

Sigra's a Bulls fan, turned Kukoc fan, turned Bucks fan, turned Bulls fan, turned Hammond fan who loves to bash our fan base, hardcore and casual, at any chance he can get. Don't mind him. Any fan that isn't here to push an agenda or troll is welcome.

Haha thanks.

And even if we wanted to make fun of another team, our team has 16 wins...so there isn't really much you can say.

[whatthe_buck!?]

If it makes you guys feel better, I think you're funny in a manly, intimidating, lumberjack kind of way.

But really, I think my fellow Magic fan meant to compliment your fans as humorous people. Nothing more than that.

The clarification is appreciated, but dont worry, everyone whose first language isnt Croatian correctly interpreted the post...

[whatthe_buck!?]

I guarantee we will not miss Harris. I made same guarantee for Sessions if you remember. I was right and you were wrong then. And it will be same again. Who don't learn from past is sure to make same mistake in future. You are great example of that.

You've literally been a fan of every Hammond addition besides bringing back Ersan this season, and you were wrong about that. Maggette, Salmons, Jackson, Jefferson, Skiles etc etc. I wouldn't act like you are batting 1.000.

I'm sure that was a Croatian joke and he's making fun of himself for being wrong 98% of the time.

[Sigra]

Remember when Ramon Sessions put up great numbers on our crap team and everyone wanted to pay him 10 million a year and then he got an offer for 4 million and everyone was like HOLY **** and then we let him walk and everyone was on suicide watch and then we followed him closely until he bounced around and is now putting up ho-hum numbers on the mighty Bobcats?

This will be like that.

Can't wait to bump this in 6 years. I should start saving all the ridiculous posts now.

Nobody ever wanted to pay Ramon 10 mil a season and he would of been a great guy to have on that contract.

We did though.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=907244&start=15

Thank you

[Sigra]

By the way, that Sessions thread is being casually ignored here by quite a few.

I'd still rather him be our starting point guard now, and the past 3 seasons.

That just show how much you know. Shame on you.

But that Sessions thread is classic on so many levels. People wanted to give him 9M per year. People saying that he may or may not be all-star but he will be top 10 PG for sure. This Harris thing is like deja vu I swear

[Sigra]

By the way, that Sessions thread is being casually ignored here by quite a few.

If you take that single occurrence into consideration then you should also heavily weight the fact that Sanders could barely find the court last year with Drew freaking Gooden in front of him. Makes sense to think that Harris barely getting minutes this year should be no indication of how good he was actually was (in practice or in games).

The point is not "who got minutes". The point is "who Hammond gave up on". Hammond gave up on CV, Sessions, Alexander and so on. And he never make mistake in that regard. That's all you need to know.

[Baddy Chuck]

He "gave up" on Alexander when his value and potential worth to the team was already nothing, really wouldn't call that a win. Charlie V he "gave up on" when his contract expired and he got a ridiculous deal nobody in their right mind wanted matched. Sessions I'll give you he let go at a very fair deal, but let's not act like he didn't have more then one opportunity to "give up" on Sessions before he let him walk. He sat on, and burned, that asset just like the other two.

Funny how the guys he "gives up on" like Jefferson, Ridnour, Salmons, Jackson, Delfino, etc that he brought in himself you completely omit.

He does have a record of "giving up" on players, you're right. Thing is, he gives up on players he once believed in and paid heavily for it.

[El Duderino]

Geez, get over it already guys. I'm not happy that they gave him up but there will always be more Tobias Harrises. You guys speak of the dude as if we gave away Kevin Durant for Drew Gooden. You guys kill Hambone but you love all of his drafts aside from Alexander/Tines. We will get another guy to play SF.

With Harris gone, we love one of his drafts. I'm sure a lot people are high on Henson too, but I'm still not sold he has the awareness to be an above average starter in the frontcourt.

At this point here's Hammond's draft results:

2008: Alexander - a bust of epic magnitude in a deep draft
2009: Inconsistent player with an ego much bigger than his game. The JR Smith of PGs. Also had Holiday/Lawson go fairly soon after him, further diminishing what was once thought to be a very good pick.
2010: Sanders - Jackpot. Awesome, awesome results so far. Huge credit to Hammy.
2011: Harris - pretty much no court time the first 1.5 years, traded for Redick rental
2012: Henson - TBD

So if you don't include Henson, he's 1/4 in my book. And that's if you don't consider the fact that the Bucks actually had the 10th draft pick in 2011 traded down. The Salmons + Bulls pick swap which turned into Sanders has prevented Hammond from looking like full on clown.

I think you're being way to harsh when judging Hammond's ability to evaluate talent in the draft. Yea, he's made moves which has forced him to pick later in drafts than should have been the case, but when you look at where he's actually picked, i think he's shown a good eye for talent.

Clearly Alexander was an epic bust.

While Lawson and Holiday would surely have been better than picking Jennings, when picking at 10 in a draft, picking a guy like Brandon is far from being terrible talent evaluation. Plenty busts or fringe players get picked outside the top 3-5 picks.

Sanders at 15 in what was mostly a wasteland of talent surrounding that pick, picking Larry has ended up being a grand slam.

It was dumb to trade Harris for Redick, but going forward i see the odds being very strong that Tobias will end up becoming a much better player than what typically is found at the 19th pick in drafts.

I liked the Henson pick when it was made and have seen nothing so far to make me wish Hammond had taken someone else at 14 instead.

Moute and Meeks were good talent evaluations for 2nd round picks. Lamb we'll find out about.

Sadly IMO, if Hammond was only on the payroll as say a designated drafter to just handle picking the players at whatever draft spot the Bucks are at, i think he'd be an asset. It's everywhere else as a GM that he sucks.

[Sigra]

There's some serious anger in this thread.

[Godgers]

Came across this tonight and at the 6 min mark they guy talked about Harris and potential.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... -potential

[blazza18]

His potential doesn't win us the coveted 8th spot this season.

[Sigra]

I'm not saying he will be an all-star, but we will without question regret trading Harris.

I guarantee we will not miss Harris. I made same guarantee for Sessions if you remember. I was right and you were wrong then. And it will be same again. Who don't learn from past is sure to make same mistake in future. You are great example of that.

You've literally been a fan of every Hammond addition besides bringing back Ersan this season, and you were wrong about that. Maggette, Salmons, Jackson, Jefferson, Skiles etc etc. I wouldn't act like you are batting 1.000.

I am batting as close to 1.000 as anybody. I just don't have desire to go point by point for all those moves again. As explained many times Maggette, Jackson and so on are our desparate attamts to find our Rasheed/Randolph because MILWAUKEE Bucks doesn't have many ways to add elite talent unless it comes with baggage. Skiles was good for this franchise. Before Skiles we were mess and in dictionary "playing no defense" had "see Milwaukee Bucks" next to it. He is drafting well, he is not overpaying our own free agents (Salmons had to be re-signed) like Harris did (see Mo, Redd vs Bogut, Ersan). He let them go rather then overpay (CV, Sessions) and trade them before other teams see they are done (Bogut, Rj etc).

[Sigra]

He "gave up" on Alexander when his value and potential worth to the team was already nothing, really wouldn't call that a win. Charlie V he "gave up on" when his contract expired and he got a ridiculous deal nobody in their right mind wanted matched. Sessions I'll give you he let go at a very fair deal, but let's not act like he didn't have more then one opportunity to "give up" on Sessions before he let him walk. He sat on, and burned, that asset just like the other two.

I will never undertand why peope think that leting someone go is burning asset. For example Sessions. When we didn't match his offer we got cap space insteed. If we traded him for some equaly not important player that player's salary would ocupy our cap space again. Sometimes the best value you get is to just let him go and use that money for something else.

Funny how the guys he "gives up on" like Jefferson, Ridnour, Salmons, Jackson, Delfino, etc that he brought in himself you completely omit.

I said that I wish we kept Ridnour and Delfino. Not a huge thing but I wish we kept them.

H

e does have a record of "giving up" on players, you're right. Thing is, he gives up on players he once believed in and paid heavily for it.

He believed in them more than he beleived in players he traded for them but not as much as in player he traded them for. You would have a point if he traded Jefferson for Yi and Simmons again for example. But he traded him for diferent players.

The point is, once he had oportunity to see them in close (in Bucks) and then decided to trade them we didn't regret that (except Ridnour and Delfino for me).

[whatthe_buck!?]

There's some serious anger in this thread.

We are never so defenseless against suffering as when we love *the Bucks*
-Sigmund Freud

To live *as a Bucks fan* is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering
-Friedrich Nietzsche

We shall draw from the heart of suffering itself the means of inspiration and survival *and use it to carry on and one day triumph over the Bucks' front office*
-Winston Churchill

*the* Life *of a Bucks fan* is full of misery, loneliness and suffering; and its all over much too soon
-Woody Allen

**As far as I know not part of actual quote...