Official Tobias Harris watch thread (The End)

JayMKE · Post #741 » by **JayMKE** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:15 pm

there is some real mental gymnastics going on in here

to say Tobias has peaked at 20 really have no basis in reality, more wishful thinking.

I guess you gotta do what you gotta do to avoid insanity or crippling depression when it comes to the Bucks.

at BEST, this is simply a bad trade and it's looking more and more like it could be a FRANCHISE ALTERING mistake. It was stupid to trade a 20 year old prospect to rent a 28 year old slightly above average 6th man SG to chase the 8th seed with the potential is overpaying him in the offseason.(which we could of done anyways) There is no upside in this trade for the Bucks at all, this is as good as it gets.

Wooderson · Post #742 » by **Wooderson** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:17 pm

El Duderino wrote:I think you're being way to harsh when judging Hammond's ability to evaluate talent in the draft. Yea, he's made moves which has forced him to pick later in drafts than should have been the case, but when you look at where he's actually picked, i think he's shown a good eye for talent.

Clearly Alexander was an epic bust.

While Lawson and Holiday would surely have been better than picking Jennings, when picking at 10 in a draft, picking a guy like Brandon is far from being terrible talent evaluation. Plenty busts or fringe players get picked outside the top 3-5 picks.

Sanders at 15 in what was mostly a wasteland of talent surrounding that pick, picking Larry has ended up being a grand slam.

It was dumb to trade Harris for Redick, but going forward i see the odds being very strong that Tobias will end up becoming a much better player than what typically is found at the 19th pick in drafts.

I liked the Henson pick when it was made and have seen nothing so far to make me wish Hammond had taken someone else at 14 instead.

Moute and Meeks were good talent evaluations for 2nd round picks. Lamb we'll find out about.

Sadly IMO, if Hammond was only on the payroll as say a designated drafter to just handle picking the players at whatever draft spot the Bucks are at, i think he'd be an asset. It's everywhere else as a GM that he sucks.

Sure Hammond and has a solid eye for draft talent. And you're right, if he was just a scout for the draft would probably be a good hire. But I'm going to judge him based off the results, in which case I'm going to include getting basically 1/3 of a season of Redick for the 10th pick in 2011 draft. He made a great pick with Harris, especially after moving down in the draft, but his inability to recognize his own talent should be held against him.

Just like many some here don't believe in Harris, I reserved judgement on Jennings until he could he could do something other than shoot a 3. The fact that BJ is an average PG doesn't say much to much me. Most people don't want him here long term and very few think he'll ever be a difference maker. Same goes for Henson for me (although I realize I'm in the minority here, hope I'm wrong though).

Sanders is the reason Hammond got a 3 year extension. Period. Kohl probably isn't even aware that he's the reason this team is .500, but it's definitely the case. And I've given Hammy immense credit for the pick. Without that pick though, his draft results look like a steaming pile of dung.

mojosodope · Post #743 » by **mojosodope** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:17 pm

Sigra wrote:Using "20 years old" as a argument make sense when that 20 years old has body of 20 years old players. Then you can say that with time he will get more strength or more confidence. Harris already has perfect body and unlimited confidence. With age his body may become slower actually (if he get some fat) and when other teams see how he play there will be book on him. Right now people don't know what to expect and don't prepare for him (altough those teams would not prepare anyway). In short, this is best Harris we will ever see IMO.

Again this is a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) assessment because if you look at Harris development in the 2 short years he's been here he his body has transformed significantly. He may have even grown an inch. And unlimited confidence? seriously? after being buried on our bench for the majority of this season? Keep reaching...whats next guarenteeing injury? Oh wait you already did that in your next post

jtrinaldi · Post #744 » by **jtrinaldi** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:18 pm

Does this trade have the potential to be as bad as the Ray Allen trade?

Ill-yasova · Post #745 » by **Ill-yasova** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:21 pm

Am I the only one who will laugh when Tobes drops 30 on us on March 17. I can hardly wait.

fansinceforever · Post #746 » by **fansinceforever** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:23 pm

Godgers wrote:Tobias Harris Career High 23 Points Full Highlights (2/27/2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhsJFgIwEWg

Nice to watch him play and see what we drafted years ago.

So far so good. We're gonna regret it. Guarantee it.

Sigra · Post #747 » by **Sigra** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:24 pm

Ill-yasova wrote:Am I the only one who will laugh when Tobes drops 30 on us on March 17. I can hardly wait.

With us leading 30 points in the 3rd quarter? I will laugh for sure.

fansinceforever · Post #748 » by **fansinceforever** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:30 pm

Sigra wrote:
Ill-yasova wrote:Am I the only one who will laugh when Tobes drops 30 on us on March 17. I can hardly wait.

With us leading 30 points in the 3rd quarter? I will laugh for sure.

To improve to a game under .500... Yeh that'll be a knee slapper

LUKE23 · Post #749 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:39 pm

"Streetball" is literally the last word I'd use to describe Harris. He has a great feel for the game. I don't know what his defensive potential is, but he'll be a good scorer at either SF or PF. He has a mismatch at both positions.

Octopus Jonny · Post #750 » by **Octopus Jonny** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:43 pm

Tobias is going to be pretty damn good. He is really crafty with his moves any time he gets within 12 feet of the hoop. He uses the glass really effectively as well. I hated that we gave him up for the Redick rental...

jute2003 · Post #751 » by **jute2003** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:48 pm

I like Harris. I think he seems like a good kid and I hope he has a long productive career. These 3 games don't really mean **** in the grand scheme of things though. I'm disappointed that the Redick/Tobias swap was all that came out of this deadline but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it or do an inordinate amount of hand wringing....at least until Harris turns into a 20-10 allstar. If I'm right that won't happen. If I'm wrong, good for him.

Steve210 · Post #752 » by **Steve210** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:49 pm

Tobias producing? Not a real shocker, all he needed was a real opportunity, it's unfortunate that he didn't get it in Milwaukee, especially on those nights when Luc plays like 28 mins and goes 0-6 from the field. This trade will continue to piss me off, especially this summer when JJ walks.

fansinceforever · Post #753 » by **fansinceforever** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:52 pm

jute2003 wrote:I like Harris. I think he seems like a good kid and I hope he has a long productive career. These 3 games don't really mean **** in the grand scheme of things though. I'm disappointed that the Redick/Tobias swap was all that came out of this deadline but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it or do an inordinate amount of hand wringing....at least until Harris turns into a 20-10 allstar. If I'm right that won't happen. If I'm wrong, good for him.

Why does he have to be a 20/10 Allstar for us to regret this? What if he turns into an efficient 15+/8 at 21-23 yrs old? Could we not use that?

LUKE23 · Post #754 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:55 pm

Yeah, I don't understand that either. If he's a productive young player at all it's a bad trade. We got nothing relevant long-term out of the deal, unless people think that Redick being here for 30 games will make him want to take less to stay here than go elsewhere, which I'd bet strongly against.

jute2003 · Post #755 » by **jute2003** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:57 pm

an efficient 15-8 sf that plays average to below average defense isn't going to make or break a team.

LUKE23 · Post #756 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:59 pm

jute2003 wrote:an efficient 15-8 sf that plays average to below average defense isn't going to make or break a team.

He'll be a better scorer than that in his prime. My guess is 18-20 efficient PPG, assuming he gets starters minutes. His defense is nowhere near finalized either, nor is it as bad as people have made it to be. He's a better defender than Dunleavy, just to name one example. You don't have to have great D at every spot. But if you'll notice, we sure as hell could use a guy who could score 16+ efficient PPG.

The notion that a team that is currently 23rd in offense can afford to lose young prospects with offensive potential is pretty crazy to me.

EastSideBucksFan · Post #757 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:02 pm

Moute's game has fallen off a cliff.

I would love to be starting Tobias Harris at SF right now.

Ugh.

JimmyTheKid · Post #758 » by **JimmyTheKid** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:04 pm

fansinceforever wrote:
jute2003 wrote:I like Harris. I think he seems like a good kid and I hope he has a long productive career. These 3 games don't really mean **** in the grand scheme of things though. I'm disappointed that the Redick/Tobias swap was all that came out of this deadline but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it or do an inordinate amount of hand wringing....at least until Harris turns into a 20-10 allstar. If I'm right that won't happen. If I'm wrong, good for him.

Why does he have to be a 20/10 Allstar for us to regret this? What if he turns into an efficient 15+/8 at 21-23 yrs old? Could we not use that?

Exactly. And even if he doesn't become the 15/8 efficient guy it was still a terrible trade. Say, at the absolute worst, he becomes an 8th or 9th man, 12-15 minute a game, "instant offense," "rotational" combo forward off the bench. I say "at the absolute worst" because thats the player he is right now, at 20 years old. (the age of a college sophomore) We gave him up to land Redick, who I like, but he's a rental backup shooting guard for yet another run at the 8th seed. Your Milwaukee Bucks ladies and gents.

Newz · Post #759 » by **Newz** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:06 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
jute2003 wrote:an efficient 15-8 sf that plays average to below average defense isn't going to make or break a team.

He'll be a better scorer than that in his prime. My guess is 18-20 efficient PPG, assuming he gets starters minutes. His defense is nowhere near finalized either, nor is it as bad as people have made it to be. He's a better defender than Dunleavy, just to name one example. You don't have to have great D at every spot. But if you'll notice, we sure as hell could use a guy who could score 16+ efficient PPG.

The notion that a team that is currently 23rd in offense can afford to lose young prospects with offensive potential is pretty crazy to me.

I personally think Tobes projects to be a really good 6th man. Guy who comes off of the bench against other forwards at the 3 or 4 who lack offensive talent so they can't expose him defensively. I think he'd really thrive in that role (kind of like he is in Orlando so far).

I agree that in the grand scheme of things the trade was terrible. Even if Tobes and Lamb aren't great prospects I think the idea that "Cheap Youth" > "Expiring Veteran" should win out just about every time in the Bucks situation.

If we are just trying to win 50 games though I think Redick might make more sense. I think Redick, Ersan and Sanders give you three legit starters. If you can put a defender at the 3 and a creator at the 1 then I think you have a pretty solid team.

fansinceforever · Post #760 » by **fansinceforever** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:07 pm

jute2003 wrote:an efficient 15-8 sf that plays average to below average defense isn't going to make or break a team.

Overpaying a 29 yr old shooter will though. What will be the consensus if Tobias is averaging an efficient 15/8 w/ average to below average defense and we have either let Reddick walk for nothing or paid him 4/36 or 5/45?