Official Tobias Harris watch thread (The End)

[europa]

I would trade Mbah Moute for Tobias Harris straight up right now.

I love me some Moute but that's an easy one for me to make as well.

The only player I'd keep over Harris on this team is Sanders and even that would be debatable for me because I think Harris has a higher ceiling due to his offensive talent and potential. Again, though, if Henson turns out to be anything the Bucks were set in the frontcourt for the next several years. All they had to do then was fix the backcourt. But of course, it's the fact they chose this backcourt to build around which has this team in the mess it's in.

[Thunder Muscle]

I'm not going to lose my mind after 3 games. I was very high on Tobias and did not like him included in the trade, but we'll see how it plays out. From a Bucks standpoint I think the rationale was...

1. Redick fills a need this season and will help make a competitive playoff team (debatable)
2. Trading for Redick now gives us a better opportunity to re-sign him in the offseason. Basically a 3-4 month window to showcase the city, organization, etc.
3. Probably figure they can replace Tobias with the pick next season. I'm guessing the deal came down to the pick or Tobias.

I understand the rationale, don't necessarly like it. I mean like anything, most of these arguments can be twisted for your side. If you side with the Bucks you go with the above, say Tobias is getting garbage points, etc. If you hate the trade and/or Redick you site Tobias' numbers, age, and Redick going to leave.

[JimmyTheKid]

an efficient 15-8 sf that plays average to below average defense isn't going to make or break a team.

Overpaying a 29 yr old shooter will though. What will be the consensus if Tobias is averaging an efficient 15/8 w/ average to below average defense and we have either let Reddick walk for nothing or paid him 4/36 or 5/45?

Right again. And thats exactly where my brain went the minute I heard about the trade. Again, I could stomach the deal if we also landed Josh Smith. Now you're truly "going for it." But on its own, terrible.

[JimmyTheKid]

I'm not going to lose my mind after 3 games.

To me, his first 3 games in ORL mean nothing. I'd still feel the same way about the deal if his first 3 box scores read DNP-Coaches Decision, DNP-Coaches Decision, DNP-Coaches Decision.

[jute2003]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I like the trade or that I wouldn't want Harris on the team. I just don't think it'll matter all that much in the long run.

I'd be surprised if he got up to 20ppg on a team that's actually good. like I said though, if he proves me wrong...good for him. I hope he does

an efficient 15-8 sf that plays average to below average defense isn't going to make or break a team.

He'll be a better scorer than that in his prime. My guess is 18-20 efficient PPG, assuming he gets starters minutes. His defense is nowhere near finalized either, nor is it as bad as people have made it to be. He's a better defender than Dunleavy, just to name one example. You don't have to have great D at every spot. But if you'll notice, we sure as hell could use a guy who could score 16+ efficient PPG.

[europa]

say Tobias is getting garbage points

The problem with this idea (not attacking you but the idea itself) is it has no merit if you just look at Harris' production when given legitimate minutes. Again, look at his production when given 20+ minutes per game. He has been extremely productive both with the Bucks and now the Magic. What he's doing now isn't a fluke; it's what he's always done when given a legitimate opportunity to play and be involved in the offense. That's what has some of us so frustrated. This was a highly productive player offensively who Skiles and then Boylan buried on the end of the bench for no good reason except they're a couple of bumblef's who got something in their head about this kid and refused to look beyond that way of thinking.

There was never a single legitimate excuse for Harris not playing on this team. Not only could the Bucks have badly used his offensive ability but Moute (who I love) has not had a good season. Don't even get me started on Daniels playing ahead of Harris. It's not like this is a contending team with All Stars everywhere. This was a team that badly needed what Harris could provide offensively but instead of wisely playing him, buried him on the bench and then dumped him for a rental.

Be Milwaukee.

[jute2003]

an efficient 15-8 sf that plays average to below average defense isn't going to make or break a team.

Overpaying a 29 yr old shooter will though. What will be the consensus if Tobias is averaging an efficient 15/8 w/ average to below average defense and we have either let Reddick walk for nothing or paid him 4/36 or 5/45?

meh, I wouldn't pay him 9 a year but I'd pay him 7-8. He's worth that. He's more than just a shooter. He's consistent, a good creator, very intelligent and a passable defender. He should be a starter in this league and likely would remain productive for the duration of a 4 year contract.

[mlloyd10]

Just wondering, base on what you have seen from Harris and Otto Porter, who do you think will have a higher ceiling? I m a big fan of harris, but Porter has a better overall game. If the Bucks can some how get him in the draft, (moving up by trading out pick. plus someone), I think that would put the end to this thread.

nbadraft.net has him going # 7
DX has him coming to us

[fansinceforever]

an efficient 15-8 sf that plays average to below average defense isn't going to make or break a team.

Overpaying a 29 yr old shooter will though. What will be the consensus if Tobias is averaging an efficient 15/8 w/ average to below average defense and we have either let Reddick walk for nothing or paid him 4/36 or 5/45?

meh, I wouldn't pay him 9 a year but I'd pay him 7-8. He's worth that. He's more than just a shooter. He's consistent, a good creator, very intelligent and a passable defender. He should be a starter in this league and likely would remain productive for the duration of a 4 year contract.

Agreed. Unfortunately, that means we traded a potentially very fluid and young offensive prospect for whatever we get from Reddick in the next month and half to 2 months. He'll get more than 7 a yr. and if he takes 7 or 8 a yr, it'll be with a contender.

[fansinceforever]

Just wondering, base on what you have seen from Harris and Otto Porter, who do you think will have a higher ceiling? I m a big fan of harris, but Porter has a better overall game. If the Bucks can some how get him in the draft, (moving up by trading out pick. plus someone), I think that would put the end to this thread.

nbadraft.net has him going # 7
DX has him coming to us

DX hasn't updated their Draft boards recently and Otto I'm sure has really raised his draft stock over the last few weeks.

[jute2003]

I don't think 8 is that far off of what he'll get.

Agreed. Unfortunately, that means we traded a potentially very fluid and young offensive prospect for whatever we get from Reddick in the next month and half to 2 months. He'll get more than 7 a yr. and if he takes 7 or 8 a yr, it'll be with a contender.

[Wooderson]

an efficient 15-8 sf that plays average to below average defense isn't going to make or break a team.

He'd still be a very valuable asset and one that would definitely get us more than a 1/3 of a season of Redick. The key is we wasted another asset with lots of potential for 1/3 of a season towards an 8th seed push. The only way this team improves in the long-term is through internal player development from the middle of the draft and through asset maximization. This trade is just another example of management screwing both those things up.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

on aug 2, 2002 we made a similar trade.... one that lives in infamy

we traded big dog for a 33 year old kukoc, leon smith, and and the pick that became tj ford.

this trade reminds me of that one.... franchise sf goes out, and basically nothing but a bucket of junk and an aged white shooter coming back.

[EastSideBucksFan]

Tobias Harris is going to turn into Danny Granger.

A mid first round pick that outplays his draft position significantly.

These are the things that will pull the Bucks out of mediocrity.

But why would we want that?

[Nebula1]

Such a shame the Bucks never played him.

[SupremeHustle]

I still can't believe this happened.

I know guys laugh at me (Baddy Chuck) when I say Harris will be a 20 PPG scorer, but I honestly believe that. He just scores in so many ways, kind of like an Antawn Jamison (who had mulitple seasons over 20 per) and guys who can go for 20 and 6+ don't grow on trees.

But I'm willing to concede, at least in theory, that Hammond knows Harris' game better and wouldn't willing give up that kind of production for a rental of a poor man's Jeff Hornacek.

[trwi7]

If you side with the Bucks you go with the above, say Tobias is getting garbage points

Which is stupid because that's what Redick was doing in Orlando.

[tranjSAIC]

I must admit, when the Magic made the trade I was like wow, we got HOSED. How the hell can we trade JJ for this crap?!!! Then I read the Bucks board and thought, damn these guys are crazy, why do THEY think they lost the trade. I've been surprised by his game, he reminds me of a much rawer Melo.

For everyone complaining about the trade, yeah it does suck you guys traded him but if you think about it. The way the Bucks are run, it makes sense to trade him. He was never going to get any run while on the Bucks, at least trade him for a player that you can use.

If you want to keep players like Harris, you need management that is willing to build not just be happy with the status quo of 8th seed.

[JimmyTheKid]

The way the Bucks are run, it makes sense to trade him.

I assume you mean awfully, pathetically, or incompetently.

[fansinceforever]

I must admit, when the Magic made the trade I was like wow, we got HOSED. How the hell can we trade JJ for this crap?!!! Then I read the Bucks board and thought, damn these guys are crazy, why do THEY think they lost the trade. I've been surprised by his game, he reminds me of a much rawer Melo.

For everyone complaining about the trade, yeah it does suck you guys traded him but if you think about it. The way the Bucks are run, it makes sense to trade him. He was never going to get any run while on the Bucks, at least trade him for a player that you can use.

If you want to keep players like Harris, you need management that is willing to build not just be happy with the status quo of 8th seed.

A year or more ago you could have substituted Sanders' name for Harris and made the same statement. I'm thinkin holding onto Larry has worked out for a team run like the Bucks. The Bucks don't have to be ran "like the Bucks". Unfortunately our FO doesn't have a plan. I can only assume they haven't had one for some time now.