Official Tobias Harris watch thread (The End)

[Thahandyman]

Paul, I'm just getting numb to it. The even bigger blunder last week could be that they didn't set themselves up for any summer moves by maximizing assets and trading one of those two guards.

Now you understand how I felt when we passed on Brook Lopez in order to draft Potsie. And then eight months later we botch the David Lee trade and let Ramon walk. On top of not trading Redd for Wally or Raef when offered in January 2009, a week before Redd blew out the ACL, because Hammonds thought he could get "more" at the trade deadline a month later.

I get it, but all of those things had at least some mitigating factors.

This didn't. You don't trade the talented kid for a 3 month rental of a solid vet unless it's going to get you a championship. Ever. End of discussion.

None of those other ones were like this, hell even the sheer stupidity involved in bringing in Monta wasn't like this.

Regardless of how Tobias Harris turns out, and I sincerely mean that 100% regardless of whether he never scores another point in his life or not, the thought process behind making this trade was idiotic to a level that until it was made I honestly didn't think we were capable of. I know I shouldn't be surprised, but I genuinely am. It's just killed me.

This is easily the stupidest thing any sporting franchise I've ever followed has done, and believe me given my thoughts on our last deadline that's really saying something.

Stupider than trading Dirk for Tractor Trailer?

[buckboy]

^^^

Notsureifserious

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

this deal reminds me of when orlando dumped corey maggette on the clips after his first year. its obvious that 1st year there that somebody saw that there was just this mental disconnect or something. tobias literally couldnt get on the floor for us. i just keep coming back to the idea that there just HAS to be something going on beyond what we can see with his obvious production. and even with it.... its like we really wanted to play him but just couldnt make ourselves do it for some reason.
the fact we play other dumb players complicates this i know..... but it just doesnt make sense. instead of just condemning it for another 57 pages i wish we could actually UNDERSTAND the philospohy of why we would rather keep a future unknown pick in this draft instead.

[Wooderson]

this deal reminds me of when orlando dumped corey maggette on the clips after his first year. its obvious that 1st year there that somebody saw that there was just this mental disconnect or something. tobias literally couldnt get on the floor for us. i just keep coming back to the idea that there just HAS to be something going on beyond what we can see with his obvious production. and even with it.... its like we really wanted to play him but just couldnt make ourselves do it for some reason.
the fact we play other dumb players complicates this i know..... but it just doesnt make sense. instead of just condemning it for another 57 pages i wish we could actually UNDERSTAND the philospohy of why we would rather keep a future unknown pick in this draft instead.

Larry Sanders gets ~ the same amount of time as Harris in his 2nd year ---> Stuck on bench behind



On a team that was desperate for defense. Larry still couldn't find the court last year.

There is zero reason to default to the coaching staff or management in regards to playing the young guys. That should be painfully obvious by now.

[Wooderson]

Stupider than trading Dirk for Tractor Trailer?

It's hard to compete with something that never actually happened.

[Sherman Douglas]

Stupider than trading Dirk for Tractor Trailer?

It's hard to compete with something that never actually happened.

Thank you.

[pogiro]

this deal reminds me of when orlando dumped corey maggette on the clips after his first year. its obvious that 1st year there that somebody saw that there was just this mental disconnect or something. tobias literally couldnt get on the floor for us. i just keep coming back to the idea that there just HAS to be something going on beyond what we can see with his obvious production. and even with it.... its like we really wanted to play him but just couldnt make ourselves do it for some reason.
the fact we play other dumb players complicates this i know..... but it just doesnt make sense. instead of just condemning it for another 57 pages i wish we could actually UNDERSTAND the philospohy of why we would rather keep a future unknown pick in this draft instead.

We traded Corey so that we had cap space to go after Tmac, Grant Hill, and Tim Duncan that summer. A closer analogy would be Marcin Gortat. We had him as our 3rd string behind Dwight and Tony Battie. There was a point early in his career, it was obvious to me that Gortat should be getting minutes over Battie, to develop. He may not have been as good as Battie at the moment, but we were a young team, we could have put more focus on developing Gortat to either figure a way to play beside Dwight, or so we could trade him for a high return. But SVG was so focused on winning and putting our team in as best a position to win every game, that he wasted Gortat on the bench, to play Battie in Dwight's limited backups minutes. As big of a fan as I am of Stan's, it's the one move that I will never agree with.

[AussieBuck]

Paul, I'm just getting numb to it. The even bigger blunder last week could be that they didn't set themselves up for any summer moves by maximizing assets and trading one of those two guards.

Now you understand how I felt when we passed on Brook Lopez in order to draft Potsie. And then eight months later we botch the David Lee trade and let Ramon walk. On top of not trading Redd for Wally or Raef when offered in January 2009, a week before Redd blew out the ACL, because Hammonds thought he could get "more" at the trade deadline a month later.

I'm there most of the time just taking it all in stride knowing I'll outlive Herb then I see Luc used to iso at SF and travel/offensive foul/get stripped and my eye starts to twitch like I'm going to have a stroke knowing that we had one of the youngest guys in the league who could score on any of Houston's forwards in his sleep. Hell in one of his last acts as a Buck he sized up all 7 feet of D Mo and posted him up and pulled his pants down twice.

[mojosodope]

After reading a bunch of the Magic Posts about Harris and even watching the games, I think it is important to credit Skilles development of Harris' defense. Granted the Magic as a team play NO defense whatsoever, I have no doubt that this coaching staff has instilled some quality defensive traits to his game

[emunney]

Steve von Horn from BH did the dirty work on Garbage Time Theory.

http://www.brewhoop.com/2013/3/1/404193 ... -bucks-nba

Harris has played 86 minutes for the Magic. Here's the breakdown: 39 of those minutes have come with Orlando down by double digits -- including 24 with Orlando down by 20 points or more.

As it turns out, Harris has propped up his production during garbage time. He's 11-13 from the field with Orlando down 20+ points, which means he's 10-18 in more high-leverage situations.

I'd have liked it if he had a breakdown of Tobias on the Bucks as well, but I guess I can only expect so much analysis from a Bucks blog on a Magic player.

[mojosodope]

I don't think its even a question as to if his production is coming in less significant minutes. Every one of the magic's minutes are less significant (and unlike our management they are aware of this) because they are not fighting for the privilege to get mollywopped by Miami.

The stats should be taken with a grain of salt, even the defensive stats as that article cites because he was often playing with the 3 players listed who have a worst defensive team rating.

When you watch him play there is something there. He has obvious solid offensive skills and should be on the floor in to develop. We didn't give him that opportunity because we have a different definition of what garbage minutes are.

If you think about last year when we DIDN'T get that 8th seed it could be argued that in hindsight a lot of those minutes we had him on the bench were actually garbage minutes and we should have been developing him...and Sanders

[tranjSAIC]

Steve von Horn from BH did the dirty work on Garbage Time Theory.

http://www.brewhoop.com/2013/3/1/404193 ... -bucks-nba

Talk about a bunch of sour grapes, sounds like the guy is just trying to justify a bad trade. So yes the Bucks are making a playoff push and trying to bring the Fear the Deer back, but what's the point. Is a 1st round thumping by the Heat really worth it?

[emunney]

Steve von Horn from BH did the dirty work on Garbage Time Theory.

http://www.brewhoop.com/2013/3/1/404193 ... -bucks-nba

Talk about a bunch of sour grapes, sounds like the guy is just trying to justify a bad trade. So yes the Bucks are making a playoff push and trying to bring the Fear the Deer back, but what's the point. Is a 1st round thumping by the Heat really worth it?

No? But try to stay focused. What did he say that was inaccurate? Just be glad that he IS producing in garbage time.

[InsideOut]

Regardless of how Tobias Harris turns out, and I sincerely mean that 100% regardless of whether he never scores another point in his life or not, the thought process behind making this trade was idiotic to a level that until it was made I honestly didn't think we were capable of. I know I shouldn't be surprised, but I genuinely am. It's just killed me.

This is easily the stupidest thing any sporting franchise I've ever followed has done, and believe me given my thoughts on our last deadline that's really saying something.

No, you shouldn't be surprised. When you trade for guys like Maggette, Jackson and Gooden and even us idiots on the message boards realize how stupid it is then nothing Hammond does should surprise you. However, it was refreshing Hammond finally made a trade where he wasn’t trying to clean up another one of his obvious mistakes. Well unless he saw Harris as a mistake which I doubt as it was to soon to tell.

Also, when was the last time the Bucks were the team to unload the vet on the downside of his career for the 20yr old 1st round pick that still has upside? This is what you get when you combine a poor GM with the poor plan of trying to win now when you don't have the players to pull it off. Sacrificing the future for the here and now 8th seed will always lead to more mediocrity.

[unklchuk]

Steve von Horn of BH has a new article on Harris:

http://www.brewhoop.com/2013/3/1/404193 ... -bucks-nba

[Kerb Hohl]

Well it looks like Brewhoop has just downgraded itself to "rag" status to most of the posters on this thread.

[Sigra]

Steve von Horn of BH has a new article on Harris:

http://www.brewhoop.com/2013/3/1/404193 ... -bucks-nba

Very good article.

BTW, people who say "then what JJ Redick did in Orlando was also in garbage time" are way off. First of all in first part of season Orlando was way more competitive. They had Nelson, Big Baby and JJ offcourse and they started season very well. Now they are in tank mode and it is complete diferent. Also, even if that was in garbage time there is big diference between how Harris score in garbage time (mostly very close to basket/layups and dunks) and how Redick did that (mostly jumpers including a lot of 3 pointers). And finally, we saw Redick before this season as well including playoffs and we know that he is quality player in this league even when games matters.

[JustDwight]

Steve von Horn,

[unklchuk]

Well it looks like Brewhoop has just downgraded itself to "rag" status to most of the posters on this thread.

Is it really "most"?

Are you measuring by volume, by unity in delivering a single message, or by number of fans?

If you're right, I'll just go on being an occasional voice that wants a balanced view. Middle paths are not what the hardliners or purists think they are. They are not the source of corruption (though they can reflect corruption from the world around them). They are not cowardice nor abject weakness. They are half a loaf measures that actually can survive in the real world. (Not dreams that live in fantasy.) Put a few halves of loafs together, with some intelligence, and the organism will survive and gradually grow.

It's hard for that to happen with our owner and our front office's behaviors. But change can come (and will eventually) and make a significant difference. Change doesn't touch the hardliners' dreams because those dreams can't exist in the real world. They glow like rubies in the mind, unchanging.

[emunney]

Steve von Horn,

This guy only posts in garbage time.