The OFFICIAL rookie impressions thread pt.III

Dame Lizard · Post #641 » by **Dame Lizard** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 3:54 am

Beal vs Waiters for ROTM was a tough one, no doubt.

Maybe it simply came to the fact that it was almost an even ball game and Beal had already won it before.

(I forget whether Waiters has won it before, so correct me if I'm wrong).

T-Blazin1995 · Post #642 » by **T-Blazin1995** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 4:19 am

kidleader wrote:lillards most glaring weakness is his awful defence.

lillard > beal

Actually lillard's defense isn't awful anymore... I mean it sure isn't good but has gotten wayyy better.

And to those who think he won't improve later on in his career, I have to strongly disagree with you because Lillard works incredibly hard to improve every part of his of his game. I just can't see him panning out to be "average".

dlts20 · Post #643 » by **dlts20** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 4:59 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqWq4DiD-QI[/youtube]

Dupp · Post #644 » by **Dupp** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 5:03 am

dangermouse wrote:Beal got robbed for ROTM honors. Better stats than Waiters across the board, he did sit a couple of games, but the Wiz were winning and he was a big part of that.

What were his stats that were so much better? Pretty sure they were very similar and cavs have been winning as well.

Shem · Post #645 » by **Shem** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 5:21 am

nate33 wrote:Lillard hit the ground running as a rookie. His was remarkable from his first month onward. But his scoring rate plateaued after his second month and has actually declined a bit since. Meanwhile, Beal and Waiters are both coming on strong lately (particularly Beal). If you ignore the first 2 months and focus on January and onward, a case can be made that Beal is outplaying Lillard.

Here are the numbers.

Lillard's scoring by month:

Oct/Nov: 18.4 PPG

December: 18.2 PPG

January: 17.6 PPG

February: 19.8 PPG

Season total: 18.4 PPG

I don't see this decline you're speaking of and you specifically stated that after the 2nd month Lillard's scoring has declined since, but that isn't the case. It's actually gone up as after two months, it was 18.3 PPG. He's at 18.4 PPG now. It's slightly up, but it's not a decline like you said.

Dame Lizard · Post #646 » by **Dame Lizard** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 5:26 am

dlts20 wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqWq4DiD-QI[/youtube]

That 2 defender split at the 50 ish second mark was great. Reminds me of one of Waiter's dunks in the first few games of the NBA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5iK-bJXSvU

TheKingOfVa360 · Post #647 » by **TheKingOfVa360** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 5:31 am

dangermouse wrote:Beal got robbed for ROTM honors. Better stats than Waiters across the board, he did sit a couple of games, but the Wiz were winning and he was a big part of that.

Beal is one of my favorite players but Waiters deserved it just as much as him. It was pretty much a toss up between the two this month but Beal missed a few games. If Beal didn't miss any games, he would have won it again.

Shem · Post #648 » by **Shem** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 5:37 am

Dame Lizard wrote:
nate33 wrote: Lillard hit the ground running as a rookie. His was remarkable from his first month onward. But his scoring rate plateaued after his second month and has actually declined a bit since.

Nov - 18.1 PPG
Dec - 18.2 PPG
Jan - 17.7 PPG
Feb - 19.8 PPG

Not being pedantic, but his scoring hasn't declined and his FG% has basically been constant all season, ever since he initially established that 42% range after a dozen games or so. All the mean while defenses have been adjusting. Lillard has been receiving far more defensive attention than all other rookies this season, that cannot be understated.

Ha, I just say this post as I hadn't gotten through the posts when I originally responded to it, but Lillard did play one game in October, so I put October and November together.

King d · Post #649 » by **King d** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 6:23 am

dlts20 wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqWq4DiD-QI[/youtube]

Thanks for posting this, anyone knows if there is any reason why he keeps pointing the finger to the sky every basket he makes?

KazuoOda · Post #650 » by **KazuoOda** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 6:28 am

dangermouse wrote:Beal got robbed for ROTM honors. Better stats than Waiters across the board, he did sit a couple of games, but the Wiz were winning and he was a big part of that.

The Cavs were 7-5 in the month of February and 10-6 in their last 16 games.
The Wiz were 7-5 as well so your argument is invalid.
Both have been playing great but don't make it out like Beal has been clear cut better.

I think it came down to what Dion has been doing without Kyrie these last 2 games.

JungleCat022 · Post #651 » by **JungleCat022** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 6:35 am

Waiters: 17 points, 6 assists, 6-11 shooting

TheBigThree · Post #652 » by **TheBigThree** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 7:02 am

Waiters without a doubt deserved it, especially for stepping up his game with Kyrie out. Very impressive month from him.

B-easy · Post #653 » by **B-easy** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 8:38 am

If cavs had a coach who was willing to give waiters more minutes and if he played on the ball more, then he would be #1 rookie this season.

He is basically a poor mans d-wade right now. I could see him reaching d wade level eventually. This is not hyperbole.

I like Beal but he cannot create for himself or others. Good thing Beal has a pass first PG in wall, mean while waiters has to share the ball with Irving (which isn't a bad thing for the team).

oikosnomos · Post #654 » by **oikosnomos** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 1:13 pm

It's funny how everyone went crazy at the beginning of the season when Beal and Waiters were slow out of the gate, and no matter how many times reasonable posters said "we need to give them more time", the less informed fan kept calling for the bust title. It will happen again next year too, I'm sure.

Anyway, it's amazing how the scouts compared Beal to a Ray Allen and Waiters to a Dwayne Wade. I couldn't see it earlier, but now you look at them being comfortable and playing their games and I can totally see it. Beal is a silky-smooth, killer jumpshooter. Waiter is a crash-and-bang, aggressive driver. It's fun to see them come along.

Post #655 » by **nate33** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 1:59 pm

Dame Lizard wrote:
nate33 wrote: Lillard hit the ground running as a rookie. His was remarkable from his first month onward. But his scoring rate plateaued after his second month and has actually declined a bit since.

Nov - 18.1 PPG
Dec - 18.2 PPG
Jan - 17.7 PPG
Feb - 19.8 PPG

Not being pedantic, but his scoring hasn't declined and his FG% has basically been constant all season, ever since he initially established that 42% range after a dozen games or so.

Yeah but his minutes have increased without a commensurate increase in scoring. He averaged 36.9 minutes in November, 39.2 in December, and 39.5 minutes in January. So he boosted his minutes by 10% with a modest decline in scoring until February. That's why I said is scoring rate declined. (He has picked it up in February though.)

Post #656 » by **nate33** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 2:08 pm

KazuoOda wrote:
dangermouse wrote:Beal got robbed for ROTM honors. Better stats than Waiters across the board, he did sit a couple of games, but the Wiz were winning and he was a big part of that.

The Cavs were 7-5 in the month of February and 10-6 in their last 16 games.
The Wiz were 7-5 as well so your argument is invalid.
Both have been playing great but don't make it out like Beal has been clear cut better.

I think it came down to what Dion has been doing without Kyrie these last 2 games.

I can buy that argument. Stepping up without Kyrie was pretty impressive. But dangermouse has a point too. Beal's numbers were better across the board. He scored more points with better efficiency while grabbing a lot more rebounds.

Beal averaged 17.5 points, 5.1 boards, 2.3 assists and 1.6 turnovers with a .547 eFG%.
Waiters averaged 15.8 points, 2.7 boards, 3.1 assists and 2.3 turnovers with a .534 eFG%

I don't have a problem with Waiters winning it because Beal only played 8 games in February to Waiters' 12, but the numbers show that Beal still has the edge over Waiters.

DCsOwn · Post #657 » by **DCsOwn** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 2:09 pm

King d wrote:
dlts20 wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqWq4DiD-QI[/youtube]

Thanks for posting this, anyone knows if there is any reason why he keeps pointing the finger to the sky every basket he makes?

I haven't read about it being to honor a specific person (although we've all lost people so the possibility remains), but one thing I do know is that he's very devout. I follow him on twitter and he begins and ends every day with a "To God be the Glory" tweet, and he references his relationship with God fairly frequently in interviews. I think the pointing is just an extension of that.

oikosnomos · Post #658 » by **oikosnomos** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 2:25 pm

nate33 wrote:Beal's numbers were better across the board. He scored more points with better efficiency while grabbing a lot more rebounds.

Beal averaged 17.5 points, 5.1 boards, 2.3 assists and 1.6 turnovers with a .547 eFG%.
Waiters averaged 15.8 points, 2.7 boards, 3.1 assists and 2.3 turnovers with a .534 eFG%

I don't have a problem with Waiters winning it because Beal only played 8 games in February to Waiters' 12, but the numbers show that Beal still has the edge over Waiters.

Beal played 35 mpg to Waiters 28. That's a lot of time to pick up extra points and boards. Plus the extra games, it's not undeserved for Waiters to get it.

Post #659 » by **nate33** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 2:31 pm

oikosnomos wrote:
nate33 wrote:Beal's numbers were better across the board. He scored more points with better efficiency while grabbing a lot more rebounds.

Beal averaged 17.5 points, 5.1 boards, 2.3 assists and 1.6 turnovers with a .547 eFG%.
Waiters averaged 15.8 points, 2.7 boards, 3.1 assists and 2.3 turnovers with a .534 eFG%

I don't have a problem with Waiters winning it because Beal only played 8 games in February to Waiters' 12, but the numbers show that Beal still has the edge over Waiters.

Beal played 35 mpg to Waiters 28. That's a lot of time to pick up extra points and boards. Plus the extra games, it's not undeserved for Waiters to get it.

I agree with you that that the per minute numbers suggest that they were much closer in production per minute (except for Waiters significantly higher turnover rate), but usually, minutes played isn't a consideration when discussing ROM. They look at total numbers, not per minute numbers.

DCsOwn · Post #660 » by **DCsOwn** » Sat Mar 2, 2013 2:36 pm

B-easy wrote:If cavs had a coach who was willing to give waiters more minutes and if he played on the ball more, then he would be #1 rookie this season.

He is basically a poor mans d-wade right now. I could see him reaching d wade level eventually. This is not hyperbole.

I like Beal but he cannot create for himself or others. Good thing Beal has a pass first PG in wall, mean while waiters has to share the ball with Irving (which isn't a bad thing for the team).

Beal's already improved markedly at creating for himself this season (as demonstrated by him splitting the double team last night and going around multiple Knicks last night throughout the game to score buckets) and he's only going to get better. Remember, he's 19 freaking years old. He, and all of these high-end rookies, are far from finished products. Beal's going to get better and better at virtually every aspect of his game, and I expect him to at minimum be a proficient pick and roll-player in a season or two and a player crafty enough to find space for his shot off the bounce.

I'm only bringing this up because Beal has drawn these comparisons, but do people remember how crude of an off the dribble player Ray Allen was early in his tenure at UConn? I watched him play quite a bit at Connecticut, a few times live because of the amount of Gtown games I went to in my younger days, and let me tell you, it wasn't very pretty watching Ray Allen attempt to create for himself at 19 or so (questions persisted even as he entered the league, so even after his age 20 year in college people questioned that part of his game*). He improved appreciably in that dept, and given Beal's rapid development across the board and in that area, I don't think it's much of a stretch to think that he'll burnish that aspect of his game as well. I don't think he'll be the elite driver that Waiters WILL become, but given his myriad other strengths, he doesn't need to in order to provide comparable value IMO.

*
[youtube]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PzhJRTtWS6I[/youtube]

Struggling with the embed, so I'll just post the link as well in case it never shows in-post.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PzhJRTtWS6I