Do you WANT us to tank?

[Snakebites]

I rarely start topics on this board, but this is a quesiton (and poll) I'd like as many members of our little community to respond to as possible.

I really want to get the pulse of this group of posters we have at the moment. Rather than simple Yes/No binary, I've included two justifications for the "NO" to give people the chance to justify their position.

If you feel your views don't match any of those three, thats fine too.

I feel like 2 and 3 years ago, and to a lesser extent now, this board was decidedly pro-tank. We have people who have tanks and lottery balls in their sigs and avatars, but I want to get the sense of where the average poster stands on this particular issue.

We've already got threads on what we think WILL happen, this thread is entirely dedicated to discussion of what we would LIKE to see from the team from here on out.

[Piston Pete]

Depends on what your definition of "tanking" is, I suppose.

I don't want to play crap players and rotations for the mere purpose to lose.....if that's what your definition of "tanking" is.

I DO want us to stop playing all of the vets and go strictly with the youth. Is that tanking? If I had it my way, I'd roll with this as our rotation thru the rest of the season:

Knight / Calderon
English / Stuckey
Singler / Middleton
Monroe / Jerebko
Drummond / K-slov

Straight up 10-man rotation featuring our young guys. The way I see it -- regardless of who we play big minutes, we're gonna be a lottery team who is going to lose most of our remaining games. All things being equal...let the kids gain some experience, play the youth!

Is that "tanking?"

[Snakebites]

^That is a great point.

I think I'll need to add some more options to cover some of the nuances.

[theBigLip]

Absolutely play youth. Don't intentionally lose. We'll make the playoffs next year so we better make this lottery pick as significant as possible. Can you say Shabazz or McLemore?

[Piston Pete]

Voted.

Not sure who voted "No. I think a winning mentality is critical to instill into the group we have." I think us winning went out the window a long time ago in relation to this season.

Us finishing the season with 5 win versus 6-7 is no biggie at this point. Not sure how many more games we have, but if we go 5-20 or 7-18 (examples) -- either way, it wouldn't be instilling a winning mentality.

[Snakebites]

^You don't understand the difference between a "winning mentality" and actually winning games?

We don't want to send a message to the team that anything is secondary to trying to win games.

[Piston Pete]

I guess we disagree on what "tanking" means. IMO, playing the youth is not "tanking."

And yes, I'm not sure how an NBA team that will lose most their games can have a winning mentality. I can understand them having a drive/want/need/desire to win - but at the end of the day, we're just not good enough to do so.

[Snakebites]

I'm not sure whats so hard to understand about it. The fact that you aren't winning isn't a reason to not try your hardest as an organization to be competitive every night, and if you send the messgae that it is that's a problem, especially in terms of the message it sends to younger players.

If you don't try your hardest to win as an organization it sends the message that there are things that are more important than being competitive and winning everyday. I don't think thats a message that should be sent to younger players, and I don't see why that's such a difficult point for you to understand.

[Piston Pete]

I don't want to lose intentionally -- but I'm a realist. I liken hoping our losing basketball team miraculously takes on a winning mentality to crapping in one hand and wishing in the other.

[rmfc]

Play the youth. Forget about the expiring vets(Will Bynum, Maxiell, Maggette) and vets with no future(CV, Stuckey and may be even Calderon) on this team. Lets see what the rest can do.

The young players will improve while giving their all. We don't have to worry about tanking because Frank's "coaching" will automatically do it for us.

[Snakebites]

I don't want to lose intentionally -- but I'm a realist. I liken hoping our losing basketball team miraculously takes on a winning mentality to crapping in one hand and wishing in the other.

You're still not understanding, so maybe I shouldn't be using the phrase "winning mentality".

You don't think its worse for the mentality of a team that they know the organization isn't trying to put them into a position to win games than a situation where they KNOW the organization values competitiveness but just hasn't gotten there yet?

If you can't see the difference then I don't think there's much less to discuss.

[Drwho17]

I don't think it matters, I have 8 possible wins in the final 20, and of those 8 that are possible, 5 are on the road. The Pistons are going to lose a lot of games down the stretch for sure, I think it is quite likely they end up in the bottom 5 records this year, I think 5-15 to finish out at 28-54 is possible.

[Piston Pete]

I don't want to lose intentionally -- but I'm a realist. I liken hoping our losing basketball team miraculously takes on a winning mentality to crapping in one hand and wishing in the other.

You're still not understanding, so maybe I shouldn't be using the phrase "winning mentality".

You don't think its worse for the mentality of a team that they know the organization isn't trying to put them into a position to win games than a situation where they KNOW the organization values competitiveness but just hasn't gotten there yet?

If you can't see the difference then I don't think there's much less to discuss.

The only way our players will KNOW we're deliberately trying to lose if if we shut down Dre, Monroe, and Knight for the season -- which we won't do and I wouldn't advocate. Again, I don't want to lose games intentionally.

[joseph mamah]

I dont think winning a few games at the end of the season is really going to do much to instill a winning mentality into the team, and I dont think the organization is doing anything to blatantly tank so I dont think any messages are really being sent. if we were blatantly tanking Dre would be shut down.

whats going to help instill a winning culture on this team is getting rid of career losers like Stuckey, Maggette, Max, Bynum and Charlie V and bringing in a few vets who have been a part of winning cultures.

[Goldtop]

At this point, now that we are certain to not make the playoffs, I would say yes we should tank. However, I have some stipulations as to my reasoning thats different than the options in the poll, so I didn't vote.

Mainly, I just believe the higher the pick, the better the asset. So if we aren't going to make the playoffs, might as well get the greatest asset we can get, if all we have to do is lose meaningless games to get it. I don't however believe we need more young talent. I think what we actually need is the opposite. We need to start adding veterans around the young talent we already have, which I think is enough young players. The reason we cant win games now is because our best players are too young, and are veterans are too mediocre. (aside from JC).

But 1 more young player isn't going to really affect that, as long as we add a lot of good veterans as well this summer with our capspace. So again if we are going to add 1 more final young piece, it might as well be the best young piece we can get in the draft, so tank away.

Although, I'm still somewhat conflicted regarding the Drummond situation, because as much as you could use another great asset like a top 5 pick, we really need to see Drummond/Monroe/Knight starting together for at least 10 games if possible. And if that ends up happening, of course I'm going to root for them to win those games.

So I guess if Drummond came back and just stayed coming of the bench the rest of the year as before, then we should just tank. But if they are going to be starting him, I'm going to be rooting for the Drummond/Moose pairing to succeed together, as that is more important to our future than anything happening with this upcoming draft.

[Kilo]

If Drummond comes back an starts the next 20 games and we go 10-10 and getting the 11th, that's better for our future than him coming back going 4-16 and getting the 7th pick. To get into the bottom 5 we'd basically have to go winless the rest of the way out.

[dVs33]

I'm never a fan of tanking. Give minutes to who earned them. Always try to win.
I enjoy watching the young guys out there and it's important for them to get minutes to develop, but if they aren't doing what it takes to earn them, then they shouldn't get minutes.
We're getting a lottery pick anyways, me might as well make sure the talent we have is playing the right way with the right intent.

[Snakebites]

The ONLY thing that makes me hesistate on this issue is the fact that other teams do it, thus artificially making our ping pong total lower than perhaps by rights it should be.

For me that isn't enough anymore though.

Good poll though, clearly this is an issue about which this board is split right down the middle.

[ajaX82]

Good topic.

I'm all for making the rest of the season a glorified try-out. Doesn't mean we aren't winning or trying, but it means that guys like English and Middleton get some minutes to see what they can do. I'd take my time with Andre to make sure he is 100%. And, as has been the case, guys like Mags would never see the court.

[Blkbrd671]

play the youth, this is their try out.