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Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V

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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1181 » by sfam » Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:52 am

popper wrote:
sfam wrote:
popper wrote:
From Pelosi, Reid, and most D’s I’ve heard from – we don’t have a spending problem and therefore there is no need to reform entitlements.


A more accurate portrayal might be that D's don't think the big problem right now is entitlements. They think its a sagging economy and a historically high long term unemployment rate. They believe the entitlement problem is at least 10 years off, so they'd prefer to pump funding into the economy in ways that will lead to long term growth, such as fixing bridges, reducing education costs, increasing science and technology investment, and so forth. This will lead to greater short term deficits, but if the economy grows, this will lead to more revenue in the long term, enough that fixing entitlements without destroying growth becomes more viable.


Sfam .... We have been and are pumping massive amounts of funding into the economy and it's not working. The Fed is pumping 85 billion per month and our govt. Is borrowing 80 billion a month for a total of 165 billion a month in stimulus. The economy can't grow knowing that deficits and debt will need to be reduced and paid back. The only solution IMHO is to strike a bargain where spending will be drastically be reduced and taxes increased to achieve a balanced budget. Once the private sector has confidence that the govt. Can act responsibly then we will gradually start to see sustainable growth.


We had the biggest collapse since the 30s. People forget that. Revenues went through the floor, while spending went up (more unemployment claims, etc.). We needed to pump more money into the economy, not less in order to recover. Furthermore, the deficit as a percentage of GDP is going down substantially. Most economists believe this is not an immediate problem, while all economists believe the growth in the economy and unemployment is a critical problem. Bottom line, removing funding from the economy by reducing government spending, and laying off government workers does not help the economy. Austerity has failed in Europe, and its doing the same here.

That said, I'm all in favor of reducing spending and raising taxes to balance things out...once we get the economy working, and the unemployment rate down. Those should be the overwhelming priorities now, not the deficit.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1182 » by dobrojim » Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:24 pm

popper wrote:
dobrojim wrote: see http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/

[edit to add - had heard about the above link but just now reading it. Un-freaking-believable.
There needs to be a popular uprising to put a stop to what is described in this article]

video here http://www.time.com/time/video/player/0,32068,2178453595001_2136781,00.html


Depressing article indeed. Will Obamacare solve these problems?


I don't suppose it will but given what it took to implement even the modest reforms
of Obamacare against the drumbeat of 'we don't want a govt takeover of healthcare'
from the other side, I don't see how opponents (you?) of Obamacare can raise that
as a substantive criticism.

Until a popular uprising based on the understanding that health care is NOT a free
market situation happens, very little is likely to change. It's worth noting that
Medicare does a much better job than even the largest of private insurers of
fighting back against the abuses described in the article.

Seems to me that DoJ ought to be considering anti-trust prosecution against
HC providers who price gouge in the way described. It's a racket. (Fighting) This is
exactly the kind of thing that the govt ought to doing on behalf of citizens.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

Those who are convinced of absurdities, can be convinced to commit atrocities
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1183 » by dobrojim » Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:30 pm

sfam wrote:
We had the biggest collapse since the 30s. People forget that. Revenues went through the floor, while spending went up (more unemployment claims, etc.). We needed to pump more money into the economy, not less in order to recover. Furthermore, the deficit as a percentage of GDP is going down substantially. Most economists believe this is not an immediate problem, while all economists believe the growth in the economy and unemployment is a critical problem. Bottom line, removing funding from the economy by reducing government spending, and laying off government workers does not help the economy. Austerity has failed in Europe, and its doing the same here.

That said, I'm all in favor of reducing spending and raising taxes to balance things out...once we get the economy working, and the unemployment rate down. Those should be the overwhelming priorities now, not the deficit.

:clap: :clap:
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1184 » by popper » Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:44 pm

dobrojim wrote:
popper wrote:
dobrojim wrote: see http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/

[edit to add - had heard about the above link but just now reading it. Un-freaking-believable.
There needs to be a popular uprising to put a stop to what is described in this article]

video here http://www.time.com/time/video/player/0,32068,2178453595001_2136781,00.html


Depressing article indeed. Will Obamacare solve these problems?


I don't suppose it will but given what it took to implement even the modest reforms
of Obamacare against the drumbeat of 'we don't want a govt takeover of healthcare'
from the other side, I don't see how opponents (you?) of Obamacare can raise that
as a substantive criticism.

Until a popular uprising based on the understanding that health care is NOT a free
market situation happens, very little is likely to change. It's worth noting that
Medicare does a much better job than even the largest of private insurers of
fighting back against the abuses described in the article.

Seems to me that DoJ ought to be considering anti-trust prosecution against
HC providers who price gouge in the way described. It's a racket. (Fighting) This is
exactly the kind of thing that the govt ought to doing on behalf of citizens.


It is a racket. Are there any countries that you know of that handle the healthcare issue well? Who's system should we emulate?
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1185 » by dobrojim » Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:54 pm

What country does it best? Offhand, I don't know. I do know we
pay around 2x as much per capita as most other developed countries that
practice the dreaded 'socialized health care' while
not insuring everyone and having statistically worse outcomes.

That's not news. It's been known since long before Obamacare
came along. Didn't stop the onslaught of negative, misleading
if not outright false propaganda against the modest reforms it offered.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1186 » by popper » Thu Mar 7, 2013 5:14 pm

dobrojim wrote:What country does it best? Offhand, I don't know. I do know we
pay around 2x as much per capita as most other developed countries that
practice the dreaded 'socialized health care' while
not insuring everyone and having statistically worse outcomes.

That's not news. It's been known since long before Obamacare
came along. Didn't stop the onslaught of negative, misleading
if not outright false propaganda against the modest reforms it offered.


As a starting point, we should benchmark other systems to find out what works best. I've heard horror stories about the British system but some good things about the Swiss system. I don't know the answer but it seems there must be another country's system that's worth looking at.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1187 » by dobrojim » Thu Mar 7, 2013 5:16 pm

my understanding is the swiss PROHIBIT for profit private insurance.

re benchmarking - great idea. I'm guessing it's been done, and re-done and re-done.
And the people who's ox gets gored do everything in their power to make sure
no one pays any attention. They have a lot of money and they get talented
people to devise very effective ways of preventing real changes.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

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Those who are convinced of absurdities, can be convinced to commit atrocities
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1188 » by popper » Thu Mar 7, 2013 5:19 pm

Poll: Majority support overall spending cuts but oppose reductions in military spending

Caroline May
Political Reporter

While about 60 percent of Americans support across-the-board government spending cuts, the opposite is true when it comes to cuts to military spending, according to a Washington Post/ABC News poll released Wednesday.

The national poll of 1,017 adults conducted from Feb. 27 – March 3 found that 61 percent supported a 5 percent overall reduction in spending, while just 33 percent opposed it. An 8 percent reduction in military spending, on the other hand, was met with 60 percent opposition, compared to 34 percent that supported it. The reduction percentages polled mimic the cuts spurred by the sequester that took effect at the end of last week.

While majorities of Republicans, Democrats and independents gave a thumbs up to the 5 percent spending reduction — Republicans favored them the most with 76 percent supporting them compared to 60 percent of independents and 57 percent of Democrats.

Likewise, on the military spending side, majorities of in all three categories opposed an 8 percent spending reduction in spending. Democratic opposition to military spending cuts boasted the slimmest margin of opposition — with 48 percent opposing cuts compared to 47 percent that approved of them.

As the Washington Post noted, the findings stand in contrast to a recent Pew Research Center survey, which found that majorities of Americans either wanted to maintain or increase spending for specific programs, such as entitlements, education and environmental protection .
The Washington Post/ABC News results have a +/- 3.5 point margin of error.
Follow Caroline on Twitter


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/07/poll- ... z2MsKE23q6
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1189 » by montestewart » Thu Mar 7, 2013 6:15 pm

dobrojim wrote:my understanding is the swiss PROHIBIT for profit private insurance.

re benchmarking - great idea. I'm guessing it's been done, and re-done and re-done.
And the people who's ox gets gored do everything in their power to make sure
no one pays any attention. They have a lot of money and they get talented
people to devise very effective ways of preventing real changes.

Brief descriptions of Swiss healthcare (some compared to US system):
http://nation.time.com/2012/08/16/healt ... -loves-it/
http://healthcare-economist.com/2008/04 ... itzerland/
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/healt ... wanted=all
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1190 » by dobrojim » Thu Mar 7, 2013 6:34 pm

FYI
this just arrived in my inbox - a talk up in Rockville

POPULATION WELLBEING AND THE FUNDAMENTAL ROLE OF INEQUALITY

Date: March 8, 2013
Time: 2:00 ˆ 3:00 pm
Location: Neuroscience Building (6001 Executive Blvd Rockville, MD) - Conference Room A


SPEAKER:

Richard Wilkinson, Emeritus Professor of Social Epidemiology University of Nottingham Medical School,
Honorary Professor at University College London.


ABSTRACT:

Comparing life expectancy, mental health, levels of violence, teenage birth rates, drug abuse, child wellbeing, obesity rates, levels of trust, the educational performance of school children, or the strength of community life among rich countries, it is clear that societies which tend to do well on one of these measures tend to do well on all of them, and the ones which do badly, do badly on all of them. What accounts for the difference? As a poor performer on many of these outcomes, this question is particularly important for the USA. The key is the amount of inequality in each society. The picture is consistent whether we compare rich countries or the 50 states of the USA. The more unequal a society is, the more ill health and social problems it has.

Inequality has always been regarded as divisive and socially corrosive. The data show that even small differences in the amount of inequality matter. Material inequality serves as a determinant of the scale and importance of social stratification. It increases status insecurity and competition and the prevalence of all the problems associated with relative deprivation. Particularly important are effects mediated by social status, friendship and early childhood experience. However, although the amount of inequality has its greatest effect on rates of problems among the poor, its influence extends to almost all income groups: too much inequality reduces levels of well-being among the vast majority of the population.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

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Those who are convinced of absurdities, can be convinced to commit atrocities
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1191 » by popper » Thu Mar 7, 2013 7:30 pm

montestewart wrote:
dobrojim wrote:my understanding is the swiss PROHIBIT for profit private insurance.

re benchmarking - great idea. I'm guessing it's been done, and re-done and re-done.
And the people who's ox gets gored do everything in their power to make sure
no one pays any attention. They have a lot of money and they get talented
people to devise very effective ways of preventing real changes.

Brief descriptions of Swiss healthcare (some compared to US system):
http://nation.time.com/2012/08/16/healt ... -loves-it/
http://healthcare-economist.com/2008/04 ... itzerland/
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/healt ... wanted=all


Really good info Monte, thanks. From what I read, the Swiss system is more market oriented and the govt. pays less. They achieve a 99% participation rate. The comment section shows that a lot of Swiss are not happy with the system however. Some recommended looking at the Singapore system as one that functions well and one or two recommended looking at the Badger system, a state sponsored program in Wisconsin.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1192 » by dobrojim » Thu Mar 7, 2013 7:45 pm

private insurance but highly regulated

JMO, but I wouldn't put too much on whatever comments may have been attached
to these websites as we have no idea of how representative they are of the total
population.

FWIW, I was correct in saying that their profits are regulated.
In reading one of the 3 sites, I read that the basic plans do prohibit
profits. The insurers can make profit on supplemental plans.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1193 » by popper » Thu Mar 7, 2013 8:25 pm

dobrojim wrote:private insurance but highly regulated

JMO, but I wouldn't put too much on whatever comments may have been attached
to these websites as we have no idea of how representative they are of the total
population.

FWIW, I was correct in saying that their profits are regulated.
In reading one of the 3 sites, I read that the basic plans do prohibit
profits. The insurers can make profit on supplemental plans.


Yep, you were right.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1194 » by popper » Fri Mar 8, 2013 2:57 pm

More evidence that Obamacare has zero chance of ever working in the real world.

As reported by POLITICO's Rachael Bade:

..........You might already know about the twenty new or higher taxes in Obamacare. What you might not know is that the non-partisan Government Accountability Office (GAO) says that the IRS has 47 new taxes and regulations to administer in overseeing Obamacare. The IRS is not capable of doing all this...........

Here is the list:
1. Prohibits group health plans from discriminating in favor of highly compensated individuals.
2. Establishes a temporary reinsurance program to provide reimbursement for a portion of the cost of providing health insurance coverage to early retirees.
3. Imposes a penalty on health plans identified in an annual Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) penalty fee report, which is to be collected by the Financial Management Service after notice by the Department of the Treasury (Treasury).
4. Requires state exchanges to send to Treasury a list of the individuals exempt from having minimum essential coverage, those eligible for the premium assistance tax credit, and those who notified the exchange of change in employer or who ceased coverage of a qualified health plan.
5. Provides tax exemption for nonprofit health insurance companies receiving federal start-up grants or loans to provide insurance to individuals and small groups.
6. Provides tax exemption for entities providing reinsurance for individual policies during first 3 years of state exchanges.
7. Provides premium assistance refundable tax credits for applicable taxpayers who purchase insurance through a state exchange, paid directly to the insurance plans monthly or to individuals who pay out-of-pocket at the end of the taxable year.
8. Provides a cost-sharing subsidy for applicable taxpayers to reduce annual out-of-pocket deductibles.
9. Outlines the procedures for determining eligibility for exchange participation, premium tax credits and reduced cost-sharing, and individual responsibility exemptions.
10. Allows advance determinations and payment of premium tax credits and cost-sharing reductions.
11. Authorizes IRS to disclose certain taxpayer information to HHS for purposes of determining eligibility for premium tax credit, cost-sharing subsidy, or state programs including Medicaid, including (1) taxpayer identity; (2) the filing status of such taxpayer; (3) the modified adjusted gross income of taxpayer, spouse, or dependents; and (4) tax year of information.
12. Provides nonrefundable tax credits for qualified small employers (no more than 25 full-time equivalents (FTE) with annual wages averaging no more than $50,000) for contributions made on behalf of its employees for premiums for qualified health plans.
13. Requires all U.S. citizens and legal residents and their dependents to maintain minimum essential insurance coverage unless exempted starting in 2014 and imposes a fine on those failing to maintain such coverage.
14. Requires every person who provides minimum essential coverage to file an information return with the insured individuals and with IRS.
15. Imposes a penalty on large employers (50+ FTEs) who (1) do not offer coverage for all of their full-time employees, offer unaffordable minimum essential coverage, or offer plans with high out-of-pocket costs and (2) have at least one full-time employee certified as having purchased health insurance through a state exchange and was eligible for a tax credit or subsidy.
16. Requires information reporting of health insurance coverage information by large employers (subject to IRC 4980H) and certain other employers.
17. Offers tax exclusion for reimbursement of premiums for small-group exchange participating health plans offered by small employers to all full-time employees as part of a cafeteria plan.
18. Subjects new group health plans to certain Public Health Service Act requirements and imposes the excise tax on plans that fail to meet those requirements. (Conforming amendment)
19. Authorizes IRS to disclose certain taxpayer information to the Social Security Administration (SSA) regarding reduction in the subsidy for Medicare Part D for high-income beneficiaries. (Conforming amendment)
20. Requires the independent institute partnering with the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) to implement a key national indicator system to be a nonprofit entity under section 501(c)(3).
21. . Imposes a fee through 2019 on specified health insurance policies and applicable self-insured health plans to fund the Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Trust Fund to be used for comparative effectiveness research.
22. Imposes a 40 percent excise tax on high cost employer-sponsored health insurance coverage on the aggregate value of certain benefits that exceeds the threshold amount.
23. Requires employers to disclose the value of the employee’s health insurance coverage sponsored by the employer on the annual Form W-2.
24. Repeals the tax exclusion for over-the-counter medicines under a Health Flexible Spending Arrangement (FSA), Health Reimbursement Arrangement (HRA), Health Savings Account (HSA), or Archer Medical Savings Account (MSA), unless the medicine is prescribed by a physician.
25. Increases tax on distributions from HSAs and Archer MSAs not used for medical expenses.
26. Limits health FSAs under cafeteria plans to a maximum of $2,500 adjusted for inflation.
27. Imposes additional reporting requirements for charitable hospitals to qualify as tax-exempt under IRC 501(c)(3) and requires hospitals to conduct a community health needs assessment at least once every 3 years and to adopt a financial assistance policy and policy relating to emergency medical care.
28. Imposes a fee on each covered entity engaged in the business of manufacturing or importing branded prescription drugs.
29. Imposes an annual fee on any entity that provides health insurance for any U.S. health risk with net premiums written during the calendar year that exceed $25 million.
30. Allows the deduction for retiree prescription drug expenses only after the deduction amount is reduced by the amount of the excludable subsidy payments received.
31. Increases the threshold for the itemized deduction for unreimbursed medical expenses from 7.5 percent of Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) to 10 percent of AGA (unless taxpayer turns 65 during 2013-2016 and then threshold remains at 7.5 percent).
32. Denies the business expenses deductions for wage payments made to individuals for services performed for certain health insurance providers if the payment exceeds $500,000.
33. Imposes an additional Hospital Insurance (Medicare) Tax of 0.9 percent on wages over $200,000 for individuals and over $250,000 for couples filing jointly.
34. Limits eligibility for deductions under section 833 (treatment of Blue Cross and Blue Shield) unless the organizations meet a medical loss ratio standard of at least 85 percent for the taxable year.
35. Allows an exclusion from gross income for the value of specified Indian tribe health care benefits.
36. Allows small businesses to offer simple cafeteria plans—plans that increase employees’ health benefit options without the nondiscrimination requirements of regular cafeteria plans.
37. Establishes a 50 percent nonrefundable investment tax credit for qualified therapeutic discovery projects.
38. Requires employers to provide free choice vouchers to certain employees who contribute over 8 percent but less than 9.8 percent of their household income to the employer’s insurance plan to be used by employees to purchase health insurance though the exchange.
39. Imposes a tax on any indoor tanning service equal to 10 percent of amount paid for service.
40. Excludes from gross income amounts received by a taxpayer under any state loan repayment or loan forgiveness program that is intended to provide for the increased availability of health care services in underserved or health professional shortage areas.
41. Increases the maximum adoption tax credit and the maximum exclusion for employer-provided adoption assistance for 2010 and 2011 to $13,170 per eligible child.
42. Extends the exclusion from gross income for reimbursements for medical expenses under an employer-provided accident or health plan to employees’ children under 27 years.
43. Imposes an unearned income Medicare contribution tax of 3.8 percent on individuals, estates, and trusts on the lesser of net investment income or the excess of modified adjusted gross income (AGI + foreign earned income) over a threshold of $200,000 (individual) or $250,000 (joint).
44. Imposes a tax of 2.3 percent on the sale price of any taxable medical device on the manufacturer, producer, or importer
45. Amends the cellulosic biofuel producer credit (nonrefundable tax credit of about $1.01 for each gallon of qualified fuel production of the producer) to exclude fuels with significant water, sediment, or ash content (such as black liquor).
46. Clarifies and enhances the applications of the economic substance doctrine and imposes penalties for underpayments attributable to transactions lacking economic substance.
47. Increases the required payment of corporate estimated tax due in the third quarter of 2014 by 15.75 percent for corporations with more than $1 billion in assets, and reduces the next payment due by the same amount.

Posted by Ryan Ellis, John Kartch on Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:21 PM EST


Read more: http://atr.org/obamacare-taxes-irs-dete ... z2MxZvoaUz
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1195 » by pancakes3 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:03 pm

I'm interested in what Induveca thinks of the Cypriot haircut crisis. Hope you didn't change out ALL your dollars.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1196 » by fishercob » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:44 pm

Breaking News: Hillary comes out in support of gay marriage. How brave! Also, I want to let everyone know that I'm firmly anti identity theft!
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1197 » by hands11 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:00 am

So what lessons have been learned from the Iraq war ?

Who has been held accountable?

2.2 Trillion flushed down the toilet (so far) plus interest until we pay it back. 4? 5? 6? trillion ?
10 years of war footing.
A preemptive war that we were lied to about why we entered it. WMDs ? Al Qaeda
The wounded. The killed..

It was supposed to be quick.
It was supposed to cost 100 billion.
It was supposed to be paid for by oil
They were supposed to end up our friend, instead they are more friendly with Iran then before.

Who has been held accountable ?

What has changed such that this wouldn't happen again ?
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1198 » by hands11 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:43 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21768668

Republicans. Men named Dick and War. Not a good history.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21768668

So in summary. We were in negotiations to end the War.
Nixon undermines the talks and get the SKs to back out saying he would give them a better deal.
The FBI had the audio evidence but couldn't let it out because they were illegally tapping the Ambassadors phones.

Nixon wins a close election were the Dems vote was slip because George Wallace pealed away the Dixiecrats.
And War goes on. Dick had no better deal for them.

President Nixon authorizes Operation Menu, the bombing of North Vietnamese bases within Cambodia. Over the following four years, U.S. forces will drop more than a half million tons of bombs on Cambodia. He doesn't then end the war until January 27th 1973

Richard Dick Nixon. A trader to his country. Just like Dick Cheney.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1199 » by montestewart » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:12 am

hands11 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21768668

Republicans. Men named Dick and War. Not a good history.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21768668

So in summary. We were in negotiations to end the War.
Nixon undermines the talks and get the SKs to back out saying he would give them a better deal.
The FBI had the audio evidence but couldn't let it out because they were illegally tapping the Ambassadors phones.

Nixon wins a close election were the Dems vote was slip because George Wallace pealed away the Dixiecrats.
And War goes on. Dick had not better deal for them.

President Nixon authorizes Operation Menu, the bombing of North Vietnamese bases within Cambodia. Over the following four years, U.S. forces will drop more than a half million tons of bombs on Cambodia. He doesn't then end the war until January 27th 1973

Richard Dick Nixon. A trader to his country. Just like Dick Cheney.

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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#1200 » by hands11 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:02 am

Wait.

Is it true that Obama visited Israel sooner then GWB, Bush Sr and Reagan when they were president ?

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