Whos better Russell Wesbtook or Prime Jason Kidd

[RebelWithACause]

Actually, even Rose's MVP season was only +1% over league average, which is non-elite. But Westbrook is worse than Rose typically and his volume reinforces that. Also, 1% is, in fact, a significant difference in efficiency in a sport where marginal differences in offensive efficiency mean a great deal.

Yes Rose is not elite either, correct!
But both are respectively well above the league average for guards
This 1 percent would mean 0.4 ppg more for Westbrook this season, not that much of a difference..

[richboy]

Kidd was far better than Rondo. Rondo might be the most overrated NBA player of all time. Those Nets teams would not have gone ANYWHERE with Rondo running the show.

Kidd vs Westbrook depends on what type of player I need. If I need a primary scorer, then obviously go with Westbrook, who's capable of putting up Rose-like numbers as a first option.

If there's already pieces in place, then obviously I'd go with the guy who's much better at running an offense...... Kidd.

Those Nets teams were some of the worst Conference Champs in league history. Those teams would have been bottom 4 playoff teams at best in the West right now. It isn't like Kidd raised some team to unreal levels. It isn't like Rondo couldn't get a team to that level.

[richboy]

What? Westbrook's efficiency isn't far off of Rose's at all. And he's hardly a poor finisher at the rim, around league average last I checked (which is good for a guard).

Westbrook has managed 53.8, 53.8 and is currently at 53.5% TS. He is not a good scorer, particularly relative to his volume. He is, generally speaking, not a bright player.

Rose was at 55% TS in 2011, better than Westbrook's career-high by 1.2%.

You say that like 1% is going to change your mind.All while Westbrook is better than Rose at many other things. Also your taking Rose best and pretty much ignoring that his other years including last year he was under53.8. Based on this Kobe Bryant a horrible scorer compared to some others.

[dreamchaser]

Prime Jason Kidd, he was just a pure pg even tho he couldn't shoot worth s##t. Westbrook is more athletic (probably the most athletic pg we've ever seen) but Kidd's basketball IQ, passing, defense & leadership is what separates him from Westbrook in his prime. It also doesn't help that Westbrook is playing beside Kevin Durant...

[Colbinii]

Prime Jason Kidd, he was just a pure pg even tho he couldn't shoot worth s##t. Westbrook is more athletic (probably the most athletic pg we've ever seen) but Kidd's basketball IQ, passing, defense & leadership is what separates him from Westbrook in his prime. It also doesn't help that Westbrook is playing beside Kevin Durant...

Are you implying Westbrook is in his prime?
Anyways, I always take the pure PG if they are relatively close. I feel like they can have more of an affect on a game. It is also why I think Rubio is going to be considered a stud soon. Nearly Identical numbers at this age compared to Kidd.

[dreamchaser]

Prime Jason Kidd, he was just a pure pg even tho he couldn't shoot worth s##t. Westbrook is more athletic (probably the most athletic pg we've ever seen) but Kidd's basketball IQ, passing, defense & leadership is what separates him from Westbrook in his prime. It also doesn't help that Westbrook is playing beside Kevin Durant...

Are you implying Westbrook is in his prime?
Anyways, I always take the pure PG if they are relatively close. I feel like they can have more of an affect on a game. It is also why I think Rubio is going to be considered a stud soon. Nearly Identical numbers at this age compared to Kidd.

I was talking about Kidd, Westbrook is too young to already be in his prime lol...

[celtics543]

Kidd was far better than Rondo. Rondo might be the most overrated NBA player of all time. Those Nets teams would not have gone ANYWHERE with Rondo running the show.

Kidd vs Westbrook depends on what type of player I need. If I need a primary scorer, then obviously go with Westbrook, who's capable of putting up Rose-like numbers as a first option.

If there's already pieces in place, then obviously I'd go with the guy who's much better at running an offense...... Kidd.

Those Nets teams were some of the worst Conference Champs in league history. Those teams would have been bottom 4 playoff teams at best in the West right now. It isn't like Kidd raised some team to unreal levels. It isn't like Rondo couldn't get a team to that level.

Those Nets teams were some of the worst conference champs of all time, I agree with you but Kidd did raise them up. The Nets were a horrible team before he got there. I remember when he guaranteed they'd be in the playoffs and everyone laughed at him.

Not to mention that Kidd almost stole an MVP award from prime Tim Duncan. At what point are we ever going to say that about Russell Westbrook?

[JordansBulls]

One thing about Kidd is that his shooting has been horrible over the course of his career. He is a career 40% shooter and the highest he ever shot in a season was 44% FG.

[richboy]

Kidd was far better than Rondo. Rondo might be the most overrated NBA player of all time. Those Nets teams would not have gone ANYWHERE with Rondo running the show.

Kidd vs Westbrook depends on what type of player I need. If I need a primary scorer, then obviously go with Westbrook, who's capable of putting up Rose-like numbers as a first option.

If there's already pieces in place, then obviously I'd go with the guy who's much better at running an offense...... Kidd.

Those Nets teams were some of the worst Conference Champs in league history. Those teams would have been bottom 4 playoff teams at best in the West right now. It isn't like Kidd raised some team to unreal levels. It isn't like Rondo couldn't get a team to that level.

Those Nets teams were some of the worst conference champs of all time, I agree with you but Kidd did raise them up. The Nets were a horrible team before he got there. I remember when he guaranteed they'd be in the playoffs and everyone laughed at him.

Not to mention that Kidd almost stole an MVP award from prime Tim Duncan. At what point are we ever going to say that about Russell Westbrook?

Kidd winning MVP is based on the expectation that the team wasn't good. But they ignored the reality why they were good. It is the same simple minded approach that led Derrick Rose to win MVP. New Jersey had the number 1 defense in basketball. They were in the bottom half of the league on offense. Now if your giving Kidd the MVP because you think he is the reason for that defense then fine. But it is pretty tough to say a PG was the prime reason for that defense. Getting Todd MacCulloch was the most underrated aspect of that team. He was the most efficient and second most productive player on the roster. He was there most important player in the half court.

Steve Nash won a MVP over Shaq that doesn't mean Nash was better than Shaq. Derrick Rose won MVP doesn't mean he was the best player in the league. I'm not an advanced stat guy but I think it is fair to say if Kidd had won MVP it would have dwarfed the stats community dislike of Rose winning it. I would not hesitate to say that despite finishing second in the voting no way he was a better player than

Duncan
KG
Shaq
Kobe
Dirk
Chris Webber
Tracy Mcgrady

probably no doubt better players than Jkidd then.

Vince Carter
Allen Iverson

probably more debatable

Actually if an Alien came down from Mars they probably ask why exactly was Jason Kidd better than Gary Payton that year. Payton averaged 22 ppg 9 apg had a PER of 23 and a offensive rating of 114.Jason Kidd averaged 15 ppg and 10 apg on sub 40% shooting and almost gets the MVP. That would never happen now.

[richboy]

Prime Jason Kidd, he was just a pure pg even tho he couldn't shoot worth s##t. Westbrook is more athletic (probably the most athletic pg we've ever seen) but Kidd's basketball IQ, passing, defense & leadership is what separates him from Westbrook in his prime. It also doesn't help that Westbrook is playing beside Kevin Durant...

Are you implying Westbrook is in his prime?
Anyways, I always take the pure PG if they are relatively close. I feel like they can have more of an affect on a game. It is also why I think Rubio is going to be considered a stud soon. Nearly Identical numbers at this age compared to Kidd.

Pure PGs that can't score have more of an effect on the game? I made the Rondo comparison to Kidd before. A healthy Rubio is probably actually a better comparison. Mainly because Rondo can at least beat you off the dribble. Now Rubio isn't as good as Kidd but what scary is he probably not that far off. That said I can't buy into Rubio as an elite player when he such a bad offensive scorer.

[NyCeEvO]

Russell Westbrook is a good player, but I don't see how or why this is even a legitimate debate.

Maybe people look solely at advanced stats and think that because they put up comparable numbers they therefore have the same impact on their respective teams success. But with this comparison, the debate should be going far further than simply TS% and PPG.

A major part of the reason why Kidd is still able to contribute to the success of his team now (in spite of his athleticism being all but gone) is that his BBIQ is still markedly higher than most of the players in the league.

Kidd never played with a player on the caliber of KD. While I don't fault Westbrook for that, we have yet to see how Westbrook would perform as the best player on his team and whether he would make everyone around him better.

Kidd's greatest asset was how good he was at orchestrating an offense despite having subpar to average offensive units.

There have been plenty of times where Westbrook can have an off-night, shoot tons of bricks, and the team would still win because he's got a teammate who's a top 3 player in the league to shoulder the burden with. If Kidd had bad nights, there wasn't much of a chance of his team winning because even in his prime, he was the focal point of the team and his play was a major determining factor in whether the team won.