Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - 4/1/13)

[popper]

Would it make sense to trade our 2014 first for an additional 2013 first if the transaction would fetch Burke or another high quality difference-maker? In 2014 shouldn't we have enough cap space to sign a FA equivalent of a mid-first round pick to mitigated the lost pick in 2014?

[nate33]

Would it make sense to trade our 2014 first for an additional 2013 first if the transaction would fetch Burke or another high quality difference-maker? In 2014 shouldn't we have enough cap space to sign a FA equivalent of a mid-first round pick to mitigated the lost pick in 2014?

On paper, we should be a playoff team next year but we can't count on that because Wizards. The last thing I want to do is give up a lottery pick in a deep draft.

[queridiculo]

The Kings seem hell bent on making things work with DMC. If I'm Washington I'd listen if Sacramento was offering their first in a move that would send Wall to Sacramento.

I like Wall's potential, but I haven't seen enough improvement from him to make him one of the highest paid point guards in the league.

I think Wall be a good player for years to come, I just don't think he'll be that elite PG that can lead a team to the promised land.

I'd rather pay Bledsoe $8-9 million a year and fill some of the holes on this roster. If we came away from this draft with Porter/Oladipo and Bennett I'd be ecstatic.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Here's a daring trade with Charlotte:

John Wall and Kevin Seraphin to the Bobcats for Micheal Kidd Gilchrist and Bismack Biyombo

I think MKG is going to become a great player.

Isn't MKG effectively the small forward version of Wall? Are there any good teams that have a 3 who's no threat to shoot from outside?

I think MKG is going to be really good, but I wouldn't take him over Wall. I do think there is some meat to your statement of him being the SF version of Wall. I think Wall/Seraphin for MKG/Bismack is a downgrade at both spots.

-- Wall is three years older and he thinks he is a max-contract player.
-- Grant Hill made 2 three pointers his first season and 4 his second season. He is one of the greatest SFs ever.
-- Tracy McGrady posted very similar per-36 numbers than MKG (but did shoot threes).
--MKG before all is said and done can be a HOF player, just like Hill and perhaps McGrady. You guys are letting one season in Charlotte make you forget what Gilchrist can do.
-- MKG is 19 years old. He's months younger than Beal. Just like with Beal, the light is going to come on with MKG and he will start to dominate games.

I looked at MKG's splits. He's essentially been two different players from the first 30 games to the next 30.

I think Wall is a player the Wizards WILL NOT WIN WITH, but MKG is a player much more likely to fulfill his potential.

The smartest thing the Wizards could do would be to trade a guy who is definitely not going to be a superstar to a guy who probably will become a star. MKG is a much better prospect than Wall. I disagree this is a downgrade.

On top of that, Biyombo is two years younger than Seraphin.

I'm surprised people don't like this deal and I feel very strongly it's a good deal for the Wizards. This draft they could select someone like Marcus Smart and have Smart, Beal, and MKG all 19 years old on the wing with years to improve.

[nate33]

The Kings seem hell bent on making things work with DMC. If I'm Washington I'd listen if Sacramento was offering their first in a move that would send Wall to Sacramento.

I like Wall's potential, but I haven't seen enough improvement from him to make him one of the highest paid point guards in the league.

I think Wall be a good player for years to come, I just don't think he'll be that elite PG that can lead a team to the promised land.

I'd rather pay Bledsoe $8-9 million a year and fill some of the holes on this roster. If we came away from this draft with Porter/Oladipo and Bennett I'd be ecstatic.

I'd be open to trading Wall for the lotto pick, but we'd need a PG. Either they send us Isiah Thomas, or we draft Burke with their pick. (Indeed, I'd probably draft Burke anyhow, assuming that pick is in the 7-8 range and Noel and Porter are already off the table.)

[nate33]

I looked at MKG's splits. He's essentially been two different players from the first 30 games to the next 30.

Yes. He's become much worse. Since January 1st, his eFG% is 39% and his TS% is .446. It looks to me like the scouting report has come out and he has been completely unable to adjust.

It's certainly a possibility that he can figure things out and become a good NBA player, but it is FAR from a sure thing. It's a huge gamble. It's easy to make that gamble when you're just a guy on an internet message board. It's another thing entirely to do so when you're a GM trading a franchise player.

I'd feel much more comfortable gambling on a top 6 pick in this draft. At least these guys haven't already demonstrated that they're abysmal on offense at the NBA level. They're also a gamble, but at least they're a gamble of the unknown, rather than gambling on a known poor performer.

[deneem4]

Wall still havent had a full yr wit mature vets(and or a good coach) through his whole nba career...dnt want to giv him excuses but...what you expect?

[LyricalRico]

The Kings seem hell bent on making things work with DMC. If I'm Washington I'd listen if Sacramento was offering their first in a move that would send Wall to Sacramento.

I like Wall's potential, but I haven't seen enough improvement from him to make him one of the highest paid point guards in the league.

I think Wall be a good player for years to come, I just don't think he'll be that elite PG that can lead a team to the promised land.

I'd rather pay Bledsoe $8-9 million a year and fill some of the holes on this roster. If we came away from this draft with Porter/Oladipo and Bennett I'd be ecstatic.

I'd be open to trading Wall for the lotto pick, but we'd need a PG. Either they send us Isiah Thomas, or we draft Burke with their pick. (Indeed, I'd probably draft Burke anyhow, assuming that pick is in the 7-8 range and Noel and Porter are already off the table.)

It would be kind of anti-climactic to trade Wall for a pick, and then that pick turn out to be a PG. I understand that it still would be worth it if the player we draft was better than Wall, I'm just saying it would feel weird for that to be the outcome.

All things being equal, I'd rather get a competent PG out of the deal and also get a pick that we can use elsewhere. For example, if Minny didn't already have Rubio, I wouldn't mind Wall for Ridnour+lotto pick. Maybe we can still do that if we can involve a third team?

Does Sacto have anything that the Wolves would want (besides Cousins, who they would presumably want to keep in a scenario where they trade for Wall)?

[AFM]

No way I would take MKG. I don't even see him as that good of a player and was strongly in the dont draft camp on him. Maybe his PER 36 numbers are similar to McGrady's but they are wildly different players.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Remember saying MKG isn't any good and there is no way you would trade Wall for him.

Kidd Gilchrist is younger than Beal. John Wall was a freshman at UK when he was 19. MKG won't be 20 until September, when Wall turns 23 and expects to soon be signing a max deal.

This idea is not risky. It is proactive and smart.

[nate33]

It would be kind of anti-climactic to trade Wall for a pick, and then that pick turn out to be a PG. I understand that it still would be worth it if the player we draft was better than Wall, I'm just saying it would feel weird for that to be the outcome.

All things being equal, I'd rather get a competent PG out of the deal and also get a pick that we can use elsewhere. For example, if Minny didn't already have Rubio, I wouldn't mind Wall for Ridnour+lotto pick. Maybe we can still do that if we can involve a third team?

Does Sacto have anything that the Wolves would want (besides Cousins, who they would presumably want to keep in a scenario where they trade for Wall)?

It's a fair point. My main problem is that I truly think that Burke would be BPA at #7 (or wherever Sacramento picks, assuming it's not top 3). It would be nice to add a veteran PG like Ridnoir as well. Heck, that would be ideal. Draft Noel with our pick. Draft Burke with the Minny pick. Acquire Ridnoir as salary filler to balance Wall's salary. We would have quality veterans (Okafor and Ridnoir) to help the two rookies adjust. Then we let the vets go in 2014 and use our max salary cap room (since Wall wouldn't be due for a max contract) to acquire more talent via free agency.

That would be so perfect if Minnesota didn't have Rubio.

[AFM]

For the record, I didn't say he isn't any good. I said I don't see him as THAT good. I don't see him as a future all star to be honest.

Maybe in a few years you'll be able to say "I told you so" but I doubt it. The hitch in his jump shot is way worse than John's. It's terrible.

[popper]

As expected, Wall thinks he deserves max money. How much would that be? If more than 10m per I would trade him at seasons end. He is routinely outplayed by opposing pg's and not only because of his poor shooting.

[AFM]

Yes it's more than 10M. If I'm reading the CBA right, for players between 0 and 6 years in the league, the max contract is slightly over 13M.

[nate33]

As expected, Wall thinks he deserves max money. How much would that be? If more than 10m per I would trade him at seasons end. He is routinely outplayed by opposing pg's and not only because of his poor shooting.

Max money starts at about $13.7M a year.

It's not really that big of an issue, yet. There's no need to panic. Wall is locked into another year at his current deal. He may want a max extension, but EG doesn't have to give it to him. At the end of next season when his contract is up, he will be a restricted free agent. That means that when anybody offers him a contract and Wall accepts, we have the right to match it. If we match it, Wall stays here for the length of the contract.

So basically, the only way Wall get's a max contract is if someone else offers it (or we bid against ourselves and offer one). I suspect that Wall would have to show considerable improvement next year to convince someone to come along and offer an max contract. And if Wall does show that improvement, it would be worthwhile to match it.

[popper]

As expected, Wall thinks he deserves max money. How much would that be? If more than 10m per I would trade him at seasons end. He is routinely outplayed by opposing pg's and not only because of his poor shooting.

Max money starts at about $13.7M a year.

It's not really that big of an issue, yet. There's no need to panic. Wall is locked into another year at his current deal. He may want a max extension, but EG doesn't have to give it to him. At the end of next season when his contract is up, he will be a restricted free agent. That means that when anybody offers him a contract and Wall accepts, we have the right to match it. If we match it, Wall stays here for the length of the contract.

So basically, the only way Wall get's a max contract is if someone else offers it (or we bid against ourselves and offer one). I suspect that Wall would have to show considerable improvement next year to convince someone to come along and offer an max contract. And if Wall does show that improvement, it would be worthwhile to match it.

Got it. Thanks for explanation Nate. I do feel a bit more comfortable now with the situation. We can be patient for another year and see how he develops.

[gesa2]

It would be kind of anti-climactic to trade Wall for a pick, and then that pick turn out to be a PG. I understand that it still would be worth it if the player we draft was better than Wall, I'm just saying it would feel weird for that to be the outcome.

All things being equal, I'd rather get a competent PG out of the deal and also get a pick that we can use elsewhere. For example, if Minny didn't already have Rubio, I wouldn't mind Wall for Ridnour+lotto pick. Maybe we can still do that if we can involve a third team?

Does Sacto have anything that the Wolves would want (besides Cousins, who they would presumably want to keep in a scenario where they trade for Wall)?

It's a fair point. My main problem is that I truly think that Burke would be BPA at #7 (or wherever Sacramento picks, assuming it's not top 3). It would be nice to add a veteran PG like Ridnoir as well. Heck, that would be ideal. Draft Noel with our pick. Draft Burke with the Minny pick. Acquire Ridnoir as salary filler to balance Wall's salary. We would have quality veterans (Okafor and Ridnoir) to help the two rookies adjust. Then we let the vets go in 2014 and use our max salary cap room (since Wall wouldn't be due for a max contract) to acquire more talent via free agency.

That would be so perfect if Minnesota didn't have Rubio.

Why can't we just do this trade?

Wall and our #2 to Sacramento

Isiah Thomas, Jason Thompson and Sacramento's #1 to Washington

Thomas isn't exactly a veteran, but he could be a good backup point guard that can show Burke the ropes. Sacramento/Seattle gets a name player who plays an exciting game to sell to their fans, and can argue that they get the best player in the deal. We get point guards that can shoot and financial flexibility, and build around Beal, Noel/Porter, Burke and a max free agent in 2014.

[nate33]

It would be kind of anti-climactic to trade Wall for a pick, and then that pick turn out to be a PG. I understand that it still would be worth it if the player we draft was better than Wall, I'm just saying it would feel weird for that to be the outcome.

All things being equal, I'd rather get a competent PG out of the deal and also get a pick that we can use elsewhere. For example, if Minny didn't already have Rubio, I wouldn't mind Wall for Ridnour+lotto pick. Maybe we can still do that if we can involve a third team?

Does Sacto have anything that the Wolves would want (besides Cousins, who they would presumably want to keep in a scenario where they trade for Wall)?

It's a fair point. My main problem is that I truly think that Burke would be BPA at #7 (or wherever Sacramento picks, assuming it's not top 3). It would be nice to add a veteran PG like Ridnoir as well. Heck, that would be ideal. Draft Noel with our pick. Draft Burke with the Minny pick. Acquire Ridnoir as salary filler to balance Wall's salary. We would have quality veterans (Okafor and Ridnoir) to help the two rookies adjust. Then we let the vets go in 2014 and use our max salary cap room (since Wall wouldn't be due for a max contract) to acquire more talent via free agency.

That would be so perfect if Minnesota didn't have Rubio.

Why can't we just do this trade?

Wall and our #2 to Sacramento

Isiah Thomas, Jason Thompson and Sacramento's #1 to Washington

Thomas isn't exactly a veteran, but he could be a good backup point guard that can show Burke the ropes. Sacramento/Seattle gets a name player who plays an exciting game to sell to their fans, and can argue that they get the best player in the deal. We get point guards that can shoot and financial flexibility, and build around Beal, Noel/Porter, Burke and a max free agent in 2014.

I'd definitely consider that, gesa. I'd probably try and flip Isiah Thomas someplace else (maybe packaging Vesely or Singleton as cap filler) to get a veteran PG. I don't really like the idea of two young PG's with similar style of play competing for the starting role. It could lead to strife in the locker room. I like a clear cut hierarchy with a veteran mentor and a young talent, with the youngster having to earn minutes from the veteran.

[LyricalRico]

^I wouldn't mind that at all. Thompson would be an upgrade as a third big, and would allow us to see if we could move guys like Seraphin and Booker. Maybe for Ridnour?

Okafor/Nene
Nene/Thompson
Porter/Webster
Beal/Webster
Burke/Ridnour

That's a darn solid 8-man rotation with lots of room for growth.

[gambitx777]

Well i think that wall, 1 of singleton, jan, booker, kevin,
for
Thompson, Thomas, and their pick,
thats fair to me, but i do not see the need for thomas, let them keep him. im ok with the pick and thompson. that would net use porter and burke.

a core of porter burke beal, and our latter picks, with thompson and webster gives us a nice future. Ariza and okafur might leave and we should move NENE if we can, but i say that move with the kings could pay off big time.

Porter, Burke and Beal could be a new big 3!