JA Happ not happy with starting the season in AAA

[Hendrix]

Calling RR an "Ace" is the equivalent to calling Bargs the Raps "best player" it may have been true, but is extremely relative. RR is maybe the 5th best starter on this team now. Who cares if he used to be the "ace"?

How good he was is relevant because it shows that his upside is better than JA Happ. He is 1 year removed from being a pretty good pitcher.

You are correct that it is relative. However, we are talking about him beating out JA Happ. We're not talking about comparing him to Dickey. Yes he was a mediocre #1 starter, but that is still better than what Happ has shown through his career.

It is also not the same as calling Bargs the Raptors best player. Romero was legitimately a very good/solid pitcher. He may never have been a true #1 pitcher, but the guy was pretty good for a couple years.. Bargs otoh has always sucked balls.

[CrookedJ]

Just heard Jerry Howarth on the Jeff Blair show....

* J.A. Happ could very well break camp with the team. Sounds like a decent chance Janssen isn't ready to start the season and that's the extra roster sport rather than Brett Cecil's.

* Romero is "on a very short leash" with Gibbons. Sounds like they expect to go to Happ quickly if need be.

[Skin Blues]

It's been proven for small sample sizes. Not for a multiple seasons worth of data, which is what you were using to compare Happ and Romero. Trust me, I'm as big a proponent of SIERA as anybody, but I also recognize it's limitations.

I'm sorry what? A 140 something innings isn't multiple seasons of data, that's how many innings Happ threw with a 3.79 SIERA which ranks him about 35th out of a 100 pitchers. That is exactly what SIERA was designed for.

Happ is just not that good. He's never been that good. He's got a career 4.19 ERA in the NL. Yeah, it's decent, and on almost any team in the majors he'd deserve to be in the rotation. But it's not near what Romero has done in the AL East. Of course, last season was terrible for Romero, nobody is denying that. We don't need to look at SIERA, we can see Romero's enormous ERA as well. But the two seasons prior to that were more than good enough to warrant giving the 5th spot to him rather than Happ. Even without taking into consideration the minor league options.

oh now we're going back to career ERA, great, Romero's career ERA is exactly a tenth of a run lower, a tenth of a run and you're acting like we're comparing two completely different pitchers. The AL East thing is mostly bull BTW, its an excuse we've(its something i've been guilty of) been using to overrate our own pitchers, it only makes a really small difference in the end.

A tenth of a run better in ERA and then the league difference is what, twice that much? And all of Romero's crappiness is from one season; he was very good for 2 seasons before that. I'd rather gamble on big upside rather than guaranteed mediocrity. And it's not like Happ is gone forever if we send him to Buffalo. We can have the benefits of both Romero and Happ. If Romero craps the bed again then we can get deal with that and call Happ up to the majors to take his place in the rotation. It makes no sense to not even see what Romero can do after elbow surgery before we dump him. Yeah, he'll probably suck again, but there's a chance that it was the elbow that caused his decline last season.

[LittleOzzy]

Ricky Romero vs J.A. Happ

Everyone knows that Ricky Romero is supposed to be the Toronto Blue Jays 5th starter at least to start the season. Everyone also knows there’s a slight possibility that J.A. Happ could potentially steal the Blue Jays 5th starter spot out of spring training or during the regular season. It’s something Blue Jays fans talk about yet don’t talk about.

It doesn’t seem possible that there could ever be an “elephant in a room” that gets talked about a lot but here we are.

Ricky Romero was awful last year although he did manage a good start every now and then. He hasn’t been much better in spring training even though it’s almost impossible to judge a player from spring training. If you’ve been watching the Blue Jays before the 2012 season then you know Ricky is more than capable of being a 5th starter.

J.A. Happ seemed to be great during his time with the Blue Jays last season. I say seemed because it’s hard to say if he really looked great or if it just looked that way because the rest of the rotation was bad practically every game. Either way Happ can handle the role of 5th starter. He’s also looked much better than Ricky this spring training, again for whatever that’s worth.

The reason Happ’s not the Blue Jays 5th starter is that to most people, most importantly Blue Jays management Happ’s spring training performance and his 2 months with the Blue Jays don’t overshadow Ricky Romero’s career before 2012. If you’re a believer in the “what have you done for me lately” argument then it’s understandable that Happ would be your choice.

http://jaysjournal.com/2013/03/11/ricky ... -j-a-happ/

[Lateral Quicks]

Schad, have you seen anything in particular from Romero (aside from his general suckiness) that leads you to believe he won't find his old form? He certainly seems to be lost in the wilderness at the moment, but I'd find it odd if a guy with three good years in the majors simply loses it in the prime of his career. If it happens, I've got to think it's injury-related.

The problem is that the injury he is suffering -- bilateral knee tendinitis -- is generally chronic, and can be treated and mitigated to some extent but doesn't tend to just go away. He has admitted that they're bothering him this spring, which is particularly not good...usually it's something you'd expect to worsen over the course of a season with repetitive stress.

If he can pitch through it, which is what the Jays are likely hoping for, then he's the better option of the two, by far. I just doubt that he's going to regain form if he's feeling pain on both the push-off and landing; bloody difficult to maintain consistently good mechanics if that's the case.

I wonder if cutting some weight would help out his knee problems. Romero is a big guy, especially through he upper body. I'm not sure that bulk is necessary for him to maintain his velocity or stamina.

[Santoki]

Romero is going to be given the 5th spot no matter how poorly he pitches or great Happ pitches. That's just the politics of baseball and within the organization. There's really no sense in Happ or anyone else arguing. But, Ricky is two bad starts from being sent down. There's no way they waste a month on him with someone better in the wings. The pressure was supposed to be off Romero this season, but it's right back on him and I'm not confident he'll be able to deal with it.

[Randle McMurphy]

He'll be given more than 2 starts, I'm sure. He's not Brett Cecil or Joel Carreno.

[Santoki]

He'll be given more than two if he lasts 5 innings and doesn't get completely lit up. If he has two 5-walk performances and can't get out of the 2nd inning, I don't think they'll be very patient.

[LBJSeizedMyID]

Unfortunately money talks, and Romero's salary + Happ's option gives the Jays an opportunity to juggle the roster so they don't lose anyone. Given Romero's effectiveness in the AL he deserves another shot, but his 2011 numbers really weren't all that great besides the ERA. The news of the knee tendinitis doesn't help at all, and think if we're in the "what have you done for me lately" kind of attitude, then most definitely Happ deserves a shot at the rotation - and I'd be fine with it.

I'm a Happ fan

[The_Hater]

He'll be given more than 2 starts, I'm sure. He's not Brett Cecil or Joel Carreno.

Josh Towers was given 12 of the most excruciating starts ever in 2006 by... John Gibbons.

[Schad]

He'll be given more than 2 starts, I'm sure. He's not Brett Cecil or Joel Carreno.

Josh Towers was given 12 of the most excruciating starts ever in 2006 by... John Gibbons.

Not totally his fault...we had sweet **** all for starting pitcher depth that year. For a couple months we were running with a rotation that involved three of Towers, Gustavo Chacin (who had long since ceased smelling like victory), Janssen (who just wasn't good as a starter) and Ty Taubenheim. And yet it was still the second-best season we've had since '93.

[Kinger95]

Ya happ has to relax, it's baseball there's a really good chance he will pitch 3/4 of the season with all the injuries that happen nowadays/Romero sucking again

[Mehar]

Unfortunately money talks, and Romero's salary + Happ's option gives the Jays an opportunity to juggle the roster so they don't lose anyone. Given Romero's effectiveness in the AL he deserves another shot, but his 2011 numbers really weren't all that great besides the ERA. The news of the knee tendinitis doesn't help at all, and think if we're in the "what have you done for me lately" kind of attitude, then most definitely Happ deserves a shot at the rotation - and I'd be fine with it.

I'm a Happ fan

I agree, however if Romero struggles for the first month, i would ship him to Buffalo and have Happ up. Wins in April are the same as wins in August/September. If Ricky struggles out of the gate, enough is enough and Happ should be the guy in the rotation.

[szwatzy]

If he has outings like his last, then he isn't going anywhere.

[akakalakin]

They just can't throw games, not the 5th or the 10th game of the year - they all count and may need those at the end. Happ will give them a better chance to win and should ask for a trade if he starts in Buffalo. Then we'd be really screwed.

Yes money talks so Romero will likely start as the Jays have more invested in him, but it is Happs money year too. Arbitration won't go as well if he's in Buffalo. Pissing off our 5th best pitcher is not the answer.

[Lateral Quicks]

As much as I hated the trade and am not a big fan of Happ, at this point he's the obvious choice to take north. Give Romero some time to figure things out in the minors and if all goes well he can provide a big boost to the team in June or thereabouts.