2000-2004: Tracy Mcgrady or Kobe Bryant?

[LakerLegend]

I'd probably give a slight edge to T-Mac because what Kobe did in 04 was simply inexcusable.

The only thing he did that really bothered me that year was when he publicly attacked Shaq using JG.
It was just extremely stupid, disrespectful and inappropriate.

I mean where did he get off criticizing Shaq as a leader when he had just led the team to 3 Championships.

Where did he get off questioning Shaq's work ethic when he (O'neal) had vastly outperformed him the year before in the playoffs against the Spurs and was far less responsible for their teams failure to advance.

And Shaq's personal financial issues (contract extension) was frankly none of his business even if he truly did feel lobbying for an extension at that point was inappropriate (debatable).
They were obviously both at fault but that is the one thing Kobe did back then that had me shaking my head.

Are you serious with this crap.........

[RayBan-Sematra]

Are you serious

Yeah I am serious.

Shaq was the best player on the team, the veteran leader and the guy who was the most responsible for their relatively recent 3peat.

Shaq's contract issues are strictly between him and his employer (the Lakers franchise).
Kobe had absolutely no right to stick his head in and give his personal opinion on the matter.

He was just pissed off and decided to be an immature, disrespectful d**k and attack Shaq by ranting about nonsensical things using his media connection.

Basically he got on TV and said : Shaq's a big fat greedy doo doo head. I hate him!

Obviously revisionist history is aplenty now that Kobe won more titles and became super popular while a much older Shaq has retired and slowly faded into the background but back then most people were criticizing Kobe harshly for the interview and echoing my sentiments.

[EArl]

Shaq was being a pussy as well. If you actually took a look he literally said pay me during a preseason game. Shaq was a kid as much as kobe was and was far from the veteran leader during those championships.
You can credit the veteran leadership to players like Shaw, Fox and Horry.

[RayBan-Sematra]

Shaq was being a pussy as well.

They both made mistakes.
Shaq made his own immature and stupid comments there is no doubt about that.

Still two wrongs never make a right. They both deserve blame for their immature actions.

If you actually took a look he literally said pay me during a preseason game.

That was immature but Buss actually spoke out about that incident and said it wasn't said in a serious manner and he hadn't been offended at all by it.
So if the man himself wasn't bothered by it and said it wasn't said in a disrespectful manner then for us fans to be offended by it seems pretty nonsensical.

Shaq was a kid as much as kobe was and was far from the veteran leader during those championships.

Shaq was definitely immature and childish at times (moreso as his relationship to Kobe broke down) but he was definitely the clear accepted leader of those Lakers teams.
He was the one speaking in huddles, setting the tone for the team with his play and rallying his teammates in key moments and throughout their playoff runs.

He was respected deeply and taken very seriously by most of the Lakers and players around the league.

You can credit the veteran leadership to players like Shaw, Fox and Horry.

Shaw definitely provided some real leadership and tried his best to improve Shaq as a leader and guide him in the right direction.
Not so sure about the other two.

[discord]

These Kobe Vs Tmac threads still exist? 10 + years of making the same threads. Go play Nba Live 2k4 and live in la la land yall.

[Asianiac_24]

Outside of Kobe, Shaq has burned bridges everywhere he went. From Orlando to Miami to Phoenix, with the exception of Boston, he pretty much pissed off every franchise he went. Outside of Shaq, Kobe feuded with....Smush Parker. That's it. Shaq is as childish and immature as they come.

[PandGneverfold]

Outside of Kobe, Shaq has burned bridges everywhere he went. From Orlando to Miami to Phoenix, with the exception of Boston, he pretty much pissed off every franchise he went. Outside of Shaq, Kobe feuded with....Smush Parker. That's it. Shaq is as childish and immature as they come.

Exactly but the shaq cult will blame everyone but shaq. Dr.Buss even said he made the decision to trade shaq independent of Kobe,shaq says he knows that's true cause other people told him,but you still have shaq homers clinging to this fantasy that Kobe got their idol traded.

[RayBan-Sematra]

Outside of Kobe, Shaq has burned bridges everywhere he went. From Orlando to Miami to Phoenix, with the exception of Boston, he pretty much pissed off every franchise he went. Outside of Shaq, Kobe feuded with....Smush Parker. That's it. Shaq is as childish and immature as they come.

Complete nonsense from a Kobe apologist.

Shaq didn't burn any bridges in Orlando or Phoenix and Pat Riley is a known hot head who has gotten into "feuds" with many other "former" Heat players who weren't named Shaq.

The only player Shaq ever feuded with was Kobe.

Kobe feuded with and or got into public fights with Shaq, Phil Jackson, Bynum, Lamar Odom, Karl Malone, Smush Parker, Gasol and most recently Dwight Howard.
He has also gotten coaches fired & threatened to leave the Laker franchise multiple times while meeting with opposing teams.

[nunemouse]

The only player Shaq ever feuded with was Kobe.

Kobe feuded with and or got into public fights with Shaq, Phil Jackson, Bynum, Lamar Odom, Karl Malone, Smush Parker, Gasol and most recently Dwight Howard.
He has also gotten coaches fired & threatened to leave the Laker franchise multiple times while meeting with opposing teams.

The majority of this is not true. Both on the front that "Shaq never had problems with anyone else (see: Wade)" and "Kobe is feudcentral".

[RayBan-Sematra]

The majority of this is not true. Both on the front that "Shaq never had problems with anyone else (see: Wade)" and "Kobe is feudcentral".

Shaq didn't feud with Wade.

Not sure if I would say Kobe is "feudcentral" but his at times arrogant, controlling and imposing personality has caused him to feud & fight with many different players over his career.

Pretty much every star player he has been paired with has disliked him at some point from Shaq to Bynum to Howard.

Even his relationship with Gasol who is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet has had multiple rough patches.
Phil Jackson called him uncoachable.

Doesn't take away from his talent as a player or his legendary career but he has never been the ideal leader or teammate.

[Gregoire]

Kobe was better in 00,01,02 and 04. He was 1b option in Lakers.

[RayBan-Sematra]

He was 2nd option in Lakers.

Fixed.

[Gregoire]

He was 2nd option in Lakers.

Fixed.

1b its not same 2nd.

[RayBan-Sematra]

1b its not same 2nd.

A players value or importance to his team has to be almost equal to the teams best player in order to be considered a 1b.

Someone like 2010 Gasol was arguably a 1b.

Kobe was a never close to being a 1b in the early 00's.
No need for revisionist history.

[Gregoire]

1b its not same 2nd.

A players value or importance to his team has to be almost equal to the teams best player in order to be considered a 1b.

Someone like 2010 Gasol was arguably a 1b.

Kobe was a never close to being a 1b in the early 00's.
No need for revisionist history.

Kobe always was 1b, and Gasol was 2nd. No need for Shaqs fanboiysm.

[RayBan-Sematra]

Kobe always was 1b, and Gasol was 2nd.

Playoff PER

2002 Shaq : 28.5
2002 Kobe : 20.5
_____________________

2010 Kobe : 24.7
2010 Gasol : 24.0

Clown.

[Coaster80]

'00 - Kobe
'01 - Kobe
'02 - T-Mac
'03 - T-Mac
'04 - Kobe

[Kobeskillz]

The majority of this is not true. Both on the front that "Shaq never had problems with anyone else (see: Wade)" and "Kobe is feudcentral".

Shaq didn't feud with Wade.

Not sure if I would say Kobe is "feudcentral" but his at times arrogant, controlling and imposing personality has caused him to feud & fight with many different players over his career.

Pretty much every star player he has been paired with has disliked him at some point from Shaq to Bynum to Howard.

Even his relationship with Gasol who is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet has had multiple rough patches.
Phil Jackson called him uncoachable.

Doesn't take away from his talent as a player or his legendary career but he has never been the ideal leader or teammate.

Ummm Bynum doesn't dislike Kobe. They like ea. other and respect ea. other. Bynum just wanted to be the man and couldn't do that with Kobe.

Howard and Kobe are the same but they had to learn how to play with ea. other. You can look at tons of interviews of them clearly clearly saying they get along is just they had to find that on court chemistry which its now coming together.

Oh and did you forget that Gasol and Kobe got along and are good friends and won two titles together? You left him out because it didn't support your argument of course. He was a star player. How about Kobe and Nash building a strong bond this year and that's considering their games are so different. Nope you didn't mention that either.

You clearly fell for the media spin instead of researching yourself.

[JordansBulls]

'00 - Kobe
'01 - Kobe
'02 - T-Mac
'03 - T-Mac
'04 - Kobe

What made Tmac better in 2002 over Kobe?

[Gregoire]

Playoff PER

2002 Shaq : 28.5
2002 Kobe : 20.5
_____________________

2010 Kobe : 24.7
2010 Gasol : 24.0

Clown.

Shaqs fanboy. Gasol didnt even compare to KObe.