Must-read Zach Lowe piece on Jazz

[StocktonShorts]

2) The flex seems to be designed to get good mid-range shots.

Lay-ups and open jumpers at the free throw line. If run correctly it's a nice offense. I'm ole school i'll take those easy layups and and elbow jumpers all day long.

Even if you discount the current basketball CW that the three-point shot is a better value than a mid-range jumper, the Jazz just don't execute the flex very well.

I've watched nearly every minute of every Jazz game this season and I can still probably count on two hands the number of times we've gotten a layup from an Al Jefferson or Paul Millsap pass to a cutter. Compare to how often we saw Boozer or Karl make that pass.

And how many times has Gordon Hayward hit a jumper off the famous Harpring/Korver curl this season? Fewer than 20?

The flex the Jazz run this year is a poor imitation of how it used to be run.

[pickIBL]

That's a personnel/coaching/execution issue. Jefferson/Millsap could both be gone next year. And based on some of the names (Wolters) I keep hearing what are you wanting to run?

[StocktonShorts]

That's a personnel/coaching/execution issue. Jefferson/Millsap could both be gone next year. And based on some of the names (Wolters) I keep hearing what are you wanting to run?

I agree it's a personnel/coaching issue which is why I'm in favor of changing both.

I think Favors and Kanter could each be great pick and roll players in their own way. I think both Hayward and Burks have shown some ability to be PnR ball handlers. Strangely it seems like Foye is also a decent pick and roll ball handler.

I'd love to see numbers from somewhere on which Jazz players are involved in the most pick and roll plays and how they far in those instances.

[Inigo Montoya]

That's a personnel/coaching/execution issue. Jefferson/Millsap could both be gone next year. And based on some of the names (Wolters) I keep hearing what are you wanting to run?

i'm assuming\guessing based on previous quotes from our FO and randy rigby (don't have a link right now) that the jazz will continue to stick with the flex offense, regardless of the coach. i could be wrong, but that is also why i'm pushing for wolters, among other reasons. but regardless, i would love to see this offense run the right way again. i'm very much in your opinion - i'll take layups and elbow jumpers all day long.

and yes, that it indeed a personnel/coaching/execution issue.

[Inigo Montoya]

I think Favors and Kanter could each be great pick and roll players in their own way. I think both Hayward and Burks have shown some ability to be PnR ball handlers. Strangely it seems like Foye is also a decent pick and roll ball handler..

favors for P&Rs, kanter for P&Ps. burks+hayward+yet to be determined PG to initiate both. i'd be down with that. the C4 seems to be a good base for running a flex offense.

[reapaman]

Well with a flex offense you need guys who are suited for and willing to being part of the offense instead of being the offense themselves if that makes any sense. I can't blame the flex not working on corbin because we just don't have the personell. AL hurts the flex since he's an iso player and this is amplified since he's the team's primarily offensive weapon. Our pg's though kill the flex because they are not pushing the tempo (we are playing too slow of a pace) and not facillitating the ball properly.

As for the future I think Favors, Carroll and mabey murphy (if he ever gets a chance) are really good flex options. Don't know much about leslie. Its kinda depends with Hayward and burks because they both are most effective with the ball in their hands and if you stick on of them with a ball dominating pg then that may throw them off like hayward seems to be negitively effected when playing with Mo who dribbles too much but wasn't effected that much with devin who kinda got out of the way. Enes can pick and pop but most of his offense right now is going iso so I don't think he fits the flex.

[Inigo Montoya]

mo is pushing up the tempo. he just a bad decision maker and facilitator.

[reapaman]

mo is pushing up the tempo. he just a bad decision maker and facilitator.

Yea if you call pushing the tempo running around and dribbling until your arm gets tired then sure. I'm talking about making the offense as a whole play faster; not Mo running around fast without creating anything for anyone and making stupid decisions while the other guys just stand there and watch him do it.

[StocktonShorts]

Well with a flex offense you need guys who are suited for and willing to being part of the offense instead of being the offense themselves if that makes any sense. I can't blame the flex not working on corbin because we just don't have the personell. AL hurts the flex since he's an iso player and this is amplified since he's the team's primarily offensive weapon. Our pg's though kill the flex because they are not pushing the tempo (we are playing too slow of a pace) and not facillitating the ball properly.

As for the future I think Favors, Carroll and mabey murphy (if he ever gets a chance) are really good flex options. Don't know much about leslie. Its kinda depends with Hayward and burks because they both are most effective with the ball in their hands and if you stick on of them with a ball dominating pg then that may throw them off like hayward seems to be negitively effected when playing with Mo who dribbles too much but wasn't effected that much with devin who kinda got out of the way. Enes can pick and pop but most of his offense right now is going iso so I don't think he fits the flex.

I was with you until you started talking about Murphy and Leslie as if they matter to the future of this franchise.

[Inigo Montoya]

mo is pushing up the tempo. he just a bad decision maker and facilitator.

Yea if you call pushing the tempo running around and dribbling until your arm gets tired then sure.

that's not what i call pushing up the tempo. that's what mo calls it, and maybe corbin too. he's allowing this nonsense at the very least, and pushing up the tempo and run was his idea from the beginning of the season.


btw:

Enes can pick and pop but most of his offense right now is going iso so I don't think he fits the flex.

didn't you write not long ago that his shots are trending outside the paint and that it is disturbing?
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1237076
at the very least it means he can pick and pop, which means he'll fit in the flex just fine like boozer did. we just need to find someone to run it.

[reapaman]

didn't you write not long ago that his shots are tending outside the paint and that it is disturbing? at the very least it means he can pick and pop, which means he'll fit in the flex just fine like boozer did. we just need to find someone to run it.

That was in reference to him avoiding being blocked alot inside, not that he's gonna resort to being boozer (not that its a bad thing). Also just because you are trending outside the paint do not mean your gonna be like boozer. Could mean more like Okur which Sloan used to run different options in a motion offense usually starting with 4 out 1 with him in the lineup not the flex. He switched to the flex when we had injuries, mainly to okur.

[Inigo Montoya]

true. my point being - one of kanter's main strengths is his mid range shooting. he was a good shooter even as a 16 year old. he was a good shooter before the jazz drafted him. as good of a job as the jazz have done developing him - shooting was always a strength of his and not something that needed developing. he can be a good pick and pop guy. only my opinion, but to me it's fairly obvious. i think he'll fit in a flex offense just fine, and the fact that he gets a lot of baskets in iso situations is an excellent sign regardless.

[StocktonShorts]

Here's an interesting (and hilariously dated) read from SLC Dunk from 2010 that talks about the Jazz offense, specifically the pick and roll and the flex. The author rightly points out that the Jazz have run less and less pick and roll with each passing year since Stockton and Malone.

http://www.slcdunk.com/2010/8/20/163291 ... d-the-flex

There are a few things that were funny to look back on:

Al Jefferson, on the other hand, does have that back to the basket game. The current question is can he pass well enough out of single/double coverage to find the player making the Flex cuts or allow a guard to hit the open option on a swing pass? Perhaps not straight away, as he hasn't been in an offence like this, and he hasn't had the calibre of player around him that he now has. However I'm confident that in perhaps six months or so, maybe just before the Playoffs, we may see a lot more of DWill and Al on a left side clearout once the team has had a chance to gel and get used to the changes.

Or maybe instead we'll just see the team completely dissolve around their inability to mesh together on offense.

Raja Bell: one of the reasons I was almost as excited as Moni about Raja coming back is that he knows the system already and plays well within it. I'm certain that Jazz players learn the whole Flex package but only use the sets that match their on-court skillsets (like football teams learning the whole playbook but only running 45% of their plays) so Raja will know his role already in the system no matter what changes Coach Sloan makes.

Those were the days. When Jazz fans were as happy about Raja's return as we were this year about his departure.

[Winglish]

Stockton Shorts nailed it when he asked how many times the Jazz wings have hit jumpers off the Hornacek, Harpring, Korver curl. The midrange jumper is absent from this Jazz team. People keep ripping Marvin but he's really pretty good. His defense is wonderful. He just has no concept of what would make him most successful in this offense. How often have you seen Marvin running v-cuts and curling off a big man at the corner of the foul stripe? Never! He always cuts out to the three point line.

Burks does not have the requisite jump shot. Hayward is a slasher.

So the Jazz wings are athletic slashers without much of a midrange game, playing in an offense that depends on the wings being willing and able to curl off picks for short jump shots...Makes perfect sense, right?

There is more that this team is lacking than just a point guard. The personnel does not match the offense. One of those two things needs to change.

[Lava Rock Kid]

The most disturbing part to me was the interview with the author on 1280. He said that other teams were asking about millsap and Jefferson and Utah practically hung up on them. He acted like Utahs GM's had no interest in even listening to a trade.