Rhymes with Nintendo - The Gerald Henderson Thread

[HornetJail]

They're not serious- much worse players have been paid more as of late. It would be a major steal if we got him on a multi-year deal for less than the QO. If he just signs our QO for a year, then it's obvious he wants out of town.

[fatlever]

anyone else catch the ridiculous debate on WFNZ earlier today around 12-12:30? they were talking about whether or not we should pay hendo this summer to keep him here long term.

one guy was the voice of reason and said hendo is nice player but not a guy you want to build around or commit long term money towards at this stage of the franchise. we need to keep drafting and searching for franchise players before we start committing long term money towards guys like hendo. the difference between hendo and no hendo might be 4 wins. and good chance we draft a shooting guard who would replace hendo for less money (and probably be better)

one guy was adamant we had to keep hendo because we needed to stop letting go our our own players and show the city we are serious. said that hendo is the closest thing to a superstar that we are going to get. why draft another player and start the growing period all over.

the third guy sat on the fence.

it was really frustrating listening to the 2nd guy (mark) who i usually agree with on most things, but he was way way off on this debate today. he was acting like hendo is still growing and has tons of room for improvement and that we are lucky to have him here. the comments about him being the closest thing to a superstar where outrageous.

my two cents:

hendo is a solid shooting guard. he plays good defense, he can score in a variety of ways and he is a great character guy. he is the type of player that any franchise would like to have on their roster. he also seems to be great friends with kemba. if there is a way we can retain him for a reasonable deal, then we should do it. at the very least, on a good deal, we should be able to move hendo down the road if needed.

however, hendo is a very frustrating player. last night vs the celtics just showed what kind of impact he can have offensively when he is hot and aggressive. but why hasnt he been able to produce on a more consistent basis? its his 4th year in the league and that is after 3 years of college playing at duke. how much upside does he actually have left?

hendo has shown that kind of promise for 3 years, going back to when silas took over for brown. in the last 8 games of 2011 hendo averaged 16.5ppg. post all-star in 2011 he averaged 14.5ppg (and that was on a better team). he dropped 32 points on the magic in a game during that run in april and had 7 games over 20 during that post all-star break.

what is the incentive for the cats to spend 25-40 million to retain hendo on a long term deal when realistically they can only expect 12-16ppg, solid defense, below average playmaking and below average 3pt shooting? he is rarely a difference maker and we dont need to clog up cap space and playing time for a guy who is inconsistent, at or near his peak and doesnt contribute more than a handful of wins each season.

the only reason to resign hendo is to hang on to him as a trading piece for the future. but he will only have value if he is on a good contract. what are the chances he stays in charlotte on a good contract?

if hendo can stay aggressive and average over 20ppg for the rest of the season, then maybe i would change my tune. the opportunity is there with sessions out. then again, it would wreak of a player making a typical contract push.

[fatlever]

this makes me think i need to do a SG ranking. lets try. this is much harder than pg rankings due to combo guards and wings who play both spots.

kobe bryant
---------
james harden
dwyane wade
manu ginobili
--------
paul george
andre iguodala
eric gordon
joe johnson
monte ellis
----------
jamal crawford
kevin martin
klay thompson
tyreke evans
wesley matthews
oj mayo
jr smith
demarr derozan
evan turner
---------
tony allen
arron afflalo
avery bradley
---------
bradley beal
jj redick
ray allen
dion waiters
--------
jared dudley
thabo sefolosha
gerald henderson
danny green
marcus thornton
lou williams
vince carter
-------
rodney stuckey
jason richardson
jason terry
ben gordon
nick young
shannon brown
courtney lee
alexy shved
alec burkes
john salmons
terrance ross


this is tough. by my rankings i have hendo at #27 on the shooting guard list. that being said, there really isnt much difference between #10 and #42 on this list other than consistency. the main point is that shooting guards like hendo are available in every draft and often in the mid-to-late 1st rounds as well as 2nd rounds and they are also available every summer in free agency.

who did i forget and where do you think my rankings are way off? too much credit to the defensive guys like allen, bradley, thabo and afflalo? or not enough? too high or too low for the rookies beal and waiters? does kobe deserve a tier to his own?

[HornetJail]

I mostly agree with the second guy, except the part where he says he's the closest thing to a superstar we'll get. We have two on our roster right now. But I agree that we need to match whatever offer he gets unless it's ridiculous. He is right- we HAVE to stop letting players simply walk out of town. I can't see him getting paid more than $30M by anybody, and I would match that, but I'd be wary if it was much more than that. Given Derozan's contract, that's the only real danger. Henderson is a terrific role player. We're not building around him but he's a very nice role player to have.I'd hate to see him leave, but if he signs a Derozan-like offer, be prepared to wave him goodbye, just like Augustin, Felton, Diaw, Chandler, Wallace, and everyone else we've just let walk free over the years.

[TheKingofSting]

His game last night reminded me a lot of one he had in his last year at Duke vs Wake Forest where ironically he also scored 35 points.

http://msn.foxsports.com/topics/m/video ... -duke.htm#

[thruthefire]

Thompson, Smith, DeRozan, Turner, that fourth tier is full of overrated guys.

Carter wins most underrated, easily.

[thruthefire]

I also find Ellis at 9 and Redick at 23 to be very confusing.

[fatlever]

I also find Ellis at 9 and Redick at 23 to be very confusing.

ellis too high, redick too low? ellis is a hard one to rank. great offense, dynamic scorer, bad defense and a chucker, undersized doesnt do much else.

[BigSlam]

ellis is a hard one to rank. great offense, dynamic scorer, bad defense and a chucker, undersized doesnt do much else.

he does average 6 assists per game!!

[Eoghan]

I think Paul George belongs in that 2nd tier now. Fine with Kobe having his own tier, when he's on he's still unguardable (much to my chagrin). I'd actually rank Ellis the highest on that 3rd tier, or at least right below Iggy. Tyreke and Turner are way too high. Tony Allen and Thabo should be higher for their D alone, Reddick should be a little bit higher.

Ben Gordon should be last.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Fats, you typically agree with Marc? That idiot has driven me away as a listener. His opinions on the Panthers are equally asinine.

I definitely see Hendo as one of those third-rate SGs like Derozan, Redick, etc. Though I do think you underrate him a bit here, and I wouldn't put him below the rookies just yet. Though I suppose if you're projecting it's fair.

[Kembastockton]

I think Paul George belongs in that 2nd tier now. Fine with Kobe having his own tier, when he's on he's still unguardable (much to my chagrin). I'd actually rank Ellis the highest on that 3rd tier, or at least right below Iggy. Tyreke and Turner are way too high. Tony Allen and Thabo should be higher for their D alone, Reddick should be a little bit higher.

Ben Gordon should be last.

Don't like Ben very much do you? He should be no lower than JJ Redick. Am I the only one who see these two as black and white mirror images of each other?

[Robot Rock]

Yes. They are not very similar.

[Eoghan]

I think Paul George belongs in that 2nd tier now. Fine with Kobe having his own tier, when he's on he's still unguardable (much to my chagrin). I'd actually rank Ellis the highest on that 3rd tier, or at least right below Iggy. Tyreke and Turner are way too high. Tony Allen and Thabo should be higher for their D alone, Reddick should be a little bit higher.

Ben Gordon should be last.

Don't like Ben very much do you? He should be no lower than JJ Redick. Am I the only one who see these two as black and white mirror images of each other?

Redick is a better defender, is bigger, takes better shots and doesn't dribble the ball off his foot.

[fatlever]

Fats, you typically agree with Marc? That idiot has driven me away as a listener. His opinions on the Panthers are equally asinine.

are we talking about the same guy? not marc james, but mark yarbro, who is on in the middle of the day.

i cant stand the show from 3-7. its awful.

[fatlever]

I think Paul George belongs in that 2nd tier now. Fine with Kobe having his own tier, when he's on he's still unguardable (much to my chagrin). I'd actually rank Ellis the highest on that 3rd tier, or at least right below Iggy. Tyreke and Turner are way too high. Tony Allen and Thabo should be higher for their D alone, Reddick should be a little bit higher.

Ben Gordon should be last.

Don't like Ben very much do you? He should be no lower than JJ Redick. Am I the only one who see these two as black and white mirror images of each other?

not even close anymore. if gordon was a free agent this summer, he would be lucky to get half the money redick will get. if gordon was on the magic's roster at the same salary as redick, there is no way they get a prospect like tobias harris for gordon. redick is simply a much better all-around player at this point. better shooter, better passer, better defender and much more efficient. the only thing gordon manages to do better than redick is to get up more shots per minute. thats it.

[catch20two]

I think Paul George belongs in that 2nd tier now. Fine with Kobe having his own tier, when he's on he's still unguardable (much to my chagrin). I'd actually rank Ellis the highest on that 3rd tier, or at least right below Iggy. Tyreke and Turner are way too high. Tony Allen and Thabo should be higher for their D alone, Reddick should be a little bit higher.

Ben Gordon should be last.

Don't like Ben very much do you? He should be no lower than JJ Redick. Am I the only one who see these two as black and white mirror images of each other?

Ben Gordon has had a much more successful career, statistically and financially, but nowadays they are about in the same tier. I even think Gordon's per 36 numbers are better than Redick's despite this being what some can call a horrific season by him in Charlotte.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Fats, you typically agree with Marc? That idiot has driven me away as a listener. His opinions on the Panthers are equally asinine.

are we talking about the same guy? not marc james, but mark yarbro, who is on in the middle of the day.

i cant stand the show from 3-7. its awful.

Ahhh, forgot about Yarbro. Yeah I thought you meant James, can't stand The Drive. Carry on then...

[JGib23]

I like Taylor but, Marc with a "C" from the "U" is terrible. I usually listen to the Morning and afternoon shows through my computer at work but, I always turn it off at 3 o'clock- I can't stand that show. I think if they replaced Marc with someone else and teamed the new person with Taylor it would be a pretty decent show.

Hendo I wouldn't mind as a $5M per, 6th man type of player, although typically you would want your first guard off the bench to be able to play the point if needed as well and Hendo obviously can't play the #1.

[fatlever]

Ben Gordon has had a much more successful career, statistically and financially, but nowadays they are about in the same tier. I even think Gordon's per 36 numbers are better than Redick's despite this being what some can call a horrific season by him in Charlotte.

per game
gordon 12.2ppg, 1.8rpg, 2.1apg, 41.7%fg, 40.1%3pt, 84.3%ft (89 threes made, 86 fts made)
redick 15.0ppg, 2.3rpg, 4.2apg, 45.4%fg, 38.3%3pt, 89.3%ft (134 threes made, 134 fts made)

per 36
gordon 20.5ppg (on 18.4fga), 3.5apg, 3.1rpg, 2.9tov
redick 17.4ppg (on 13.4fga), 4.8apg, 2.6rpg, 2.3tov

gordon averages more points per 36, but only because he is putting up 5 more shots per 36. redick is far and away the better play maker and less careless with the ball.

the efficiency stats are where redick blows gordon away
gordon 48.9efg%, 52.0tfg%
redick 55.2efg%, 59.3tfg%

off/def ratings
gordon 99ortg, 115drtg
redick 112ortg, 113drtg

PER
gordon 14.9
redick 16.0

they are basically similar players with the exception of passing and offensive efficiency where redick is far far superior and that is the major difference.

also you have one player who seems to be getting better and one player who seems to be getting worse