Grunwald depreciation day

[seren]

That sorry azz team across the river is spending 87.5 million dollars.

They lost ZERO players for money.

Face it gentlemen. We have a cheap owner who could care less about championship.

[GONYK]

Grunwald's strategy has always been to acquire a superstar, and then fill it with veterans that are almost on their last legs since older teams always manage to find ways to win.

It's a decent strategy to get into the playoffs rather easily since veterans can grind through 82 games much better than a young squad, but there comes a time when athletic teams can pounce on mismatches.

That time is this roadtrip

[MaseInYourFace]

To be fair Pablo has done well. I still don't get why you are *******g on that move. He's been fine and certainly has not played like a rookie.

[Rasho Brezec]

The worst part of this is Barkley was right.

[GONYK]

That sorry azz team across the river is spending 87.5 million dollars.

They lost ZERO players for money.

Face it gentlemen. We have a cheap owner who could care less about championship.

He's not cheap insomuch as he cares more about the bottom line than winning.

He's like a bizarro Don Sterling, but without the creepy slaver vibe

[seren]

To be fair Pablo has done well. I still don't get why you are *******g on that move. He's been fine and certainly has not played like a rookie.

I love Pablo myself. I wish he was backing up Lin getting decent minutes.

Fact is he is not. He ain't even getting minutes now. So the move is redundant. It is not like he will be here in the long run.

[Rasho Brezec]

Once again, not Grunnie's call. At least not one he made by himself.

This is a **** you Grunnie thread and I'm putting all of my hate eggs in his basket.


**** you Grunnie for the global debt crisis.

[kane2021]

I dont have the numbers in front of me. But im pretty sure we are and have been past the point where removing a contract from our cap gives us little to no money to spend on the market anyways.

And a good point was just brought up. Billups was partially guaranteed. Even after the amnesty we had to make a trade to clear the money to make tyson his offer.

[K_ick_God]

Grunwald should have stood on his head about Lin. Letting Dolan get sold on Felton being as good, or whatever went on behind the scenes, Grunwald was too weak and did not lead.

He also wanted to get Woodson locked in and should've called Phil.

The old big men idea hasn't worked either. Kidd looks like a waste too.

[Falstaffxx]

Grunwald should have stood on his head about Lin. Letting Dolan get sold on Felton being as good, or whatever went on behind the scenes, Grunwald was too weak and did not lead. He did not take control when he should've. He should have strongly advised Dolan against dropping Lin in favor of Felton.

He also wanted to get Woodson locked in and should've called Phil.

The old big men idea hasn't worked either. Kidd looks like a waste too.

Come to think of it, does the "sign a bunch of old bigs" idea ever work? The Heat tried it their first year after they got Lebron, with Big Z and Dampier, and that didn't really work either.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Grunnie absolutely deserves blame for the Lin move. Even Dolan is not dumb enough to replace one player with another without having the GM give an evaluation of their relative talents. In all likelihood, Grunnie said Felton is good enough to be the starting PG for a contender, and he was WRONG by a mile.

[K_ick_God]

Grunwald should have stood on his head about Lin. Letting Dolan get sold on Felton being as good, or whatever went on behind the scenes, Grunwald was too weak and did not lead. He did not take control when he should've. He should have strongly advised Dolan against dropping Lin in favor of Felton.

He also wanted to get Woodson locked in and should've called Phil.

The old big men idea hasn't worked either. Kidd looks like a waste too.

Come to think of it, does the "sign a bunch of old bigs" idea ever work? The Heat tried it their first year after they got Lebron, with Big Z and Dampier, and that didn't really work either.

Yeah it doesn't really work.

And you know what, Grunwald should know better because he tried it in Toronto with Hakeem who didn't help the Raptors.

Grunwald was here in 2010 wasn't he? So he should've seen Felton firsthand that year and known that he was not that good. His 17/6 or whatever it was when he was traded -- just like this year it was fool's gold. It was based on a hot start and then he was fizzling. Last night, Felton was playing hard and basically had a good game for him. He's just not good enough. Doesn't get people easy shots, is not quick, not a very good shooter, not a good defender. Can't give the team what it so badly needs.

[clipse375]

This is dumb.

It's not Grunwald's fault we've had a horrific injury plagued season. If we had everyone healthy, Carmelo, Amare, Tyson, Camby all at once, we'd be pretty damn good.

We've done terrible dealing with these injuries, and our season might tank because of it. I'm fine with how he's built the roster. Bringing in Kenyon Martin was a great addition.

Idk what you're b*tching about.

[Bravery]

Honestly I would've given Phil Jackson complete control of this franchise like the Heat did with Riley and overhaul the entire roster from top to bottom. Bring in Brain Shaw or whoever and clear out front office excess with PJ's brain trust. While this is happening, the Heat can continue their dominance and the Knicks can plan ahead post LBJ-era. If I have to wait, so be it - but the course was obvious... What Jordan did to the East in the 90s is what LeBron is doing now in the 2010s. With Jackson in charge, even if he can no longer coach anymore, he will still command REAL credibility to this franchise and get in the ear of prospective players/superstars without saying a word. Those rings will shut down most stragglers within the organization just as LeBron stopped messing around when he met Riley for the first time. He also has deep connections with various GMs and execs around the league and that can come in handy in trades.

This is a tear down thread for Grunwald I guess, but I'm not going to be too hard on him. Knicks were on their road to recovery and most fans (Walsh included) waited for the 2010 FA to change a long established losing culture. He had a vision no doubt (whether you think it's the right one is up for debate) and he DID execute it - set up a veteran roster with the Heat and ECF in mind, but I was never really a fan of his work in Toronto. He hired past their prime coaches like Lenny Wilkins and Butch Carter. He had a thing of signing lots of vets too and they didn't really pan out. TOR wasn't the worst team ever but he didn't really do anything that pushed the team over. Just stuck with the surround your superstar (Vince Carter) with a stacking of vets method. I tend to subscribe to a mix of superstar talent (absolutely necessary) and complimentary youth as the foundation to build a more substantial roster and use vets as a final piece rather then a focus.

Grunwald may have gotten one of those wrong place at the wrong time raw deals like with Patrick and Jordan. I still would've preferred PJax as the lead in our established order though. It's not like we couldn't afford him. Too bad Dolan didn't want to give up his franchise to him.

[Phish Tank]

grunwald just signed way too way old guys without realizing that old guys are nothing without a young and talented core. He overkilled on the oldies without providing youth in key areas

See the Spurs as a model of success. Yes they had Tim Duncan, but still:

2002-2003: Prime Tim Duncan 26-27 years old, Ginobili 25-26 years old, Young Tony Parker 20-21 years old. Surround him with an old David Robinson 37-38 years old. For every Kevin Willis and Steve Kerr, you had in-their-prime vets and role players like Bowen, Malik Rose (yes our good old overpaid Malik). They also had youth in Speedy Claxton and Captain Jack who were integral to the team. Again, young core.

2004-2005: Prime Tim Duncan 28-29 years old, Prime Ginobili 27-28 years old, Young Tony Parker 22-23 years old. For every Robert Horry and Brent Barry, you have younger guys like Nazr Mohammed (yes him, he played a good role on that team), Bruce Bowen (who was in beast mode), and even a young Beno Udrih (played well that year too as a rook)

2006-2007: slightly older Duncan (30-31 years old), Prime Ginobili 29-30 years old, and nearing his prime Tony Parker 24-25 years old. Still a young core. For every Michael Finley, Bruce Bowen, Robert Horry, and Brent Barry, you have a young Beno Udrih, a decent frontcourt of Francisco Elson and Fabricio Oberto, and even future head coach Jacque Vaughn. Older, but decent core.

With our roster, we have prime Melo, fading Amare, prime Chandler. They're surrounded by prime JR Smith, prime Raymond Felton, young Iman Shumpert, and prime, but too inconsistent Steve Novak. The problem is that we have too many old guys (Kidd, Camby, Thomas, Rasheed, K-Mart, Prigioni) that take off 40% of our roster and our younger guys are not really young (Cope, White) nor good. Our prime role players are not reliable every game. Iman's coming off injury.

What happens? Our guards are old and can't guard anyone. They rely on our frontcourt to bail them out. Tyson can't cover everyone, block every shot, or play every minute. Amare's injured. Our frontcourt's old and can't really cover anyone anymore (outside of K-Mart). We put in Cope and others for a youth infusion but don't bring anything to the table either offensively or defensively. We go on scoring droughts. We're forced to play Melo and Felton major minutes. Melo's worn out. Felton has nagging injuries. Chandler has to play many minutes and luckily he's been relatively healthy outside of yesterday, though I think he'll be fine.

Against inexperienced scrub teams who turn the ball over all the time, we'll win easy. When we shoot 3s at a rapid pace once every few games, we'll win.

Against faster, younger teams, we'll always lose.

Against LeBron, we'll lose.

Against tougher teams, we'll lose.

see the big picture?

[Clyde_Style]

This is the perfect title for a thread today. The Copywriters Guild aproves.

[Bravery]

grunwald just signed way too way old guys without realizing that old guys are nothing without a young and talented core. He overkilled on the oldies without providing youth in key areas

I can agree with that. Every contender had at least one or two core guys they drafted and/or developed to fit alongside their "transaction" players that were bought in.

Champions:

2012 - Heat: LeBron/Bosh (Wade - 5th pick overall) (Haslem/Chalmers developed in MIA)
2011 - Mavs: Chandler (Dirk - 9th overall) (JJ Barea - undrafted rookie)
2010 - Lakers: Gasol (Kobe - 13th traded on draft day, developed by Lakers)
2008 - Celtics: KG/Allen (Rondo - 21st overall) (Pierce - 10th overall) (Glen Davis)
2007 - Spurs: (Duncan/Parker/Manu - All SA selections)
2006 - Heat: Shaq (Wade - 5th overall) (Haslem - undrafted rookie)

Contenders last season:

2012 - Bulls: Boozer (Rose/Noah/Deng - All CHI selections, Deng traded on draft day)
2012 - Thunder: (Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka - All OKC selections)


They all did it correctly.

The only question mark that's left is Shumpert, but it remains to be seen if management will keep him in the future. We have heard rumors of him getting dealt this season, but nobody really knows for sure. We have a bad track record in developing our picks/youth - It's usually one or the other.

Fact is, you do need to "buy" some players to strengthen the depth/rotation and it require a bit of luck as well. But you also have to keep and develop certain homegrown picks over the years, mesh them w/ "store bought" talent and veterans in order to be complete. Usually, players who get drafted by their team will leave everything out on the floor since they stuck with the organization through thick and thin (Dirk, Pierce, Ewing.)

[seren]

There is no question that the way the CBA works you have to have good "homegrown" players. It is simply impossible to import a championship roster.

Our only hope is that Dolan sells the team to an ownership that understands the importance of drafting good players, sticking with them. I'd also hope that the owner wouldn't be cheap.

[Rasho Brezec]

There is no question that the way the CBA works you have to have good "homegrown" players. It is simply impossible to import a championship roster.

Our only hope is that Dolan sells the team to an ownership that understands the importance of drafting good players, sticking with them. I'd also hope that the owner wouldn't be cheap.

True. We're basically a treadmill team because it makes Dolan just enough money not to get too cute about it.

[R-DAWG]

The Camby move backfired - those assets could've and should've been used to acquire a younger guard (OJ Mayo?). I have no problem with the Felton move. Kidd's leadership is great, but did we have the luxury to use the mini mid level on a 20 min role player?

But the biggest blunder Grunwald made was teaming Amare and Chandler. Chandler has been great, no question about it. He's a great fit with Melo. That being said, Amare and Chandler can't play together and the effects are multiplied because Melo and Amare are not a natural fit. Not saving the amnesty for Amare and using it on a guy who does not fit with Amare is the real blunder.

But it comes down to this, when you invest $100 million in the wrong guy it sets your franchise back the length of the contract. The 2010 plan failed, the 2 years leading up to 2010 were managed horribly, and the Knicks are back where they were a few years ago, just a little better making the playoffs as the 6th seed in 2011, 7th seed in 2012, and who knows about this year.