Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II

[Mr. Grundle]

Len is the Erniest pick in the draft. If he picks Len over a Porter or Oladipo it might be the last straw for me and I turn in the fan card.

[AFM]

Haha, watch Ernie pick Len first. What an idiot. I hate idiots.

I try not to reserve space in my heart for hate for any man, but Ernie is a special breed of moron.

[tontoz]

For what it's worth, Steve Szabin on 980 was saying he's been increasingly hearing from people in the know that Ernie is VERY high on Alex Len.

*sigh*

[mhd]

I'm not as down on Len as most considering he plays with the most garbage set of PGs in college. If the Wiz pick him in the 6-8 range, I'm fine with it. If they picked him instead of Noel or Porter, Id be furious. Len is NOT Vesely.

[pancakes3]

Can we start a petition or something?

[hands11]

And Ruzious is right. Tweeners are ALWAYS better off at the bigger position. Always.

See, I still disagree with this, nate. For years and years I've said stuff like play McGee at PF with Seraphin at C, or Jamison at SF and get (then decent) Blatche time at PF. Let Butler play SOME SG. I really think Vesely would be better off playing SF as much as any other position.

And for years, you have been wrong.

Seems to me tweeners that tower over guys but who have enough quickness to defend reasonably well have the advantage playing at the SF or smaller position just as much as when they have to give up size.

Now we're talking about 2 different things. A "tweener" who has the quickness to defend the smaller position isn't a tweener. He is a versatile multi-position player. Kevin Durant is not a tweener, for example. Lebron is not a tweener.

I consider a tweener to be someone who is too slow to play average or better defense at the smaller position, and too small to play average or better defense at the taller position. Jamison, for example is a tweener. In that case, tweeners are always better off at the bigger position. There's a reason why coaches always play them that way. It's not because they're idiots. It's because they correctly value skill over height. Skilled players allow for much more flexibility and floor spacing on offense. On defense, you suffer either way (either your tweener is too short or too slow) so you may as well go for the advantage on offense.

But AJ just couldn't play defense period. That is not a tweaner issue. He is a crappy defensive player. Tweaner isn't just about defense. Its about offense as well. He was a player who could play SF or PF on offense and neither on defense.

At the end end of the day, its about impact. Can you create a positive plus/minus impact of the court. Players that suck at D all together are tough to win with because in order to make up for it, they have to be ball dominate or chuckers on offense. And that takes your team out of a balanced attack. So if they are not one of two players chucking up 20 shots a game, you can't win with them. They need to be bench players who can help you create a burst when you need it and they are hot.

Rule #1 for a starter. You have to at least be a average defender.

[dangermouse]

For what it's worth, Steve Szabin on 980 was saying he's been increasingly hearing from people in the know that Ernie is VERY high on Alex Len.

[hands11]

http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/l ... condensed/

Pierre vs Smart

[nate33]

But AJ just couldn't play defense period. That is not a tweaner issue. He is a crappy defensive player. Tweaner isn't just about defense. Its about offense as well. He was a player who could play SF or PF on offense and neither on defense.

I guess everyone has their own definition of what a tweener is. I just don't think your definition is all that useful.

In my opinion, there are no tweeners on offense. On offense you score in whatever way you score. You can be a perimeter-oriented 4, or a slashing/power 3. I wouldn't call either a tweener. It's just two different ways to score. It's on defense where positions matter because you need to be able to stop the opposing team. Most opponents have a natural 3 and a natural 4. You must be able to guard both. A player who is too slow to guard most 3's and too small to guard most 4's is a tweener.

AJ couldn't guard because he was a tweener. If other teams had slow 6-8 players, he could guard them. The problem is, very few teams have such a player; or if they do, they bring them off the bench.

[AFM]

As others have touched upon, there seem to be 2 types of tweeners.
One is when you are undersized for your natural position. For example, if you play like a shooting guard but are only 6 feet tall. A SG in a PG body, ie Steve Francis or AI.
The other is the opposite scenario. When you are oversized for your position. Durant and Lebron both fit this description. Same with Joe Johnson. JJ is big enough to play SF but is primarily a SG.

Personally I consider a "tweener" usually to mean the first definition. I generally think of a tweener as a bad thing.

[DMVleGeND]

For what it's worth, Steve Szabin on 980 was saying he's been increasingly hearing from people in the know that Ernie is VERY high on Alex Len.

[DMVleGeND]

Granted, Len isn't Vesely, but I want no part of him. He has very good touch on his jumpshot, but he's very weak, soft, has weak hands, doesn't know how to establish position and his defensive instincts are lacking. He's very tall, has good length, and is a good shot-blocker, but he's going to get manhandled down low unless he can manage to put on a lot of weight.

[kirubel94]

Never been a fan of Len's game, i would go berserk if Ernie pulls that off.

[WizardsWorld]

Ya a big NO to Len in this draft. I'm really at the point here where this draft to us is now: Porter, a healthy Noel, or BUST. There isn't anyone other than those two that I'm interested in. I'd be somewhat interested in Oladipo if we needed a SG... but we surely don't. And I guess Zeller would be my third choice if we cant get Noel or Porter but Im not too excited about that option either.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

For what it's worth, Steve Szabin on 980 was saying he's been increasingly hearing from people in the know that Ernie is VERY high on Alex Len.

*sigh*

I'm a 40-year Terrapin fan and even I am ready for Alex Len to move on. Figures Ernie would lock in on Len.

This game coming up with Duke will be revealing, not that it matters to EG if his mind is made up. The last statement game for Len when he decided to play with heart, physicality, and assertiveness at both ends was against Plumlee. He destroyed him. However, there was no Ryan Clark in that game for Duke.

I think Len's a bit of a stiff (now); but I sure didn't think so when the Terps season started against Kentucky, and, later when Len destroyed Northwestern. He has had three great games at least. Yet, time after time after time he has been a non factor. I don't like his body language or the vibe I get from him during games. Len is a strange guy from what I can tell. Perhaps I'm missing something but he doesn't not seem like the type who will excel in the NBA.

Len is a terrific on ball defender and decent off ball defender. He gets in foul trouble trying to guard smaller PF/Cs. He also gets pushed all the way out to the mid post area. He reminds me of Javale, minus the freakish leaping ability and shot blocking. Well, Len will be a better defender than McGee …

I wish Len got to play with Kelly Olynyk and a decent PG. If EG drafts Alex, he'll be a darn sight better the Vesely but I don't think he's anything more than a good backup C at best.

[hands11]

Olivier Hanlan 8-10 from 3
Boston College Freshman
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330730103


Pierre Jackson
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330730197
He started 0-6 finish 8-21 so he went 8-15 after a rough start. Ended up with 31 pts

He was 11-13 against Kansas the previous game. Finished with 28 pts

[stevemcqueen1]

Yeah, I'm not feeling it with Len anymore. He's too inconsistent, disappears too much. Doesn't have a regular impact while on the floor. And he has holes in his skill set and flaws with his physical profile. He's a high upside project and I don't have faith in our organization to properly develop him. I don't think we offer a good situation for him. We're not really bad enough for him to get big minutes early on with no expectation of winning. We're not good enough to stash him for a long period of time receiving a minimal impact from him while he learns on a good team with a winning culture. It's a similar problem we've run into with Vesely.

One of our best bets of making a successful pick is drafting a guy with a core skill set that is already good and consistent enough for him to get a bunch of minutes and a regular role early in his career. That's one reason I like Shabazz and Bennett so much. They've got NBA ready bodies too. I like Porter a lot too, but he does have some work to do putting weight on his frame and shaping his body for the NBA. That might lead to a slower development period for him. I would definitely take all three of those players ahead of Len. At this point, I would take a backup SG like McLemore or Oladipo over Len. I know I can get them an early role and they've got high upside too.

[stevemcqueen1]

- Zeller and Dipo on ESPN at noon
- Trey Burke and GRIII on ESPN at 2:00.
- Len, Plumlee on ESPN2 at 7:00
- Porter and MCW on ESPN at 7:00
- McLemore and Withey on ESPNU at 7:30
- McAdoo, Bullock, Snaer on ESPN2 at 9:00
- Smart on ESPNU at 10:00
- Bennett on CBSs at 11:30

- Gary Harris and Shabazz play on their conference networks unfortunately. Few will get to see them around here. It's also unfortunate that Bennett's game doesn't come on until almost midnight on the East Coast. And it's unfortunate that so many big prospects are playing the same time as the Wizards game.

[stevemcqueen1]

I want to stay up to watch Bennett's game. I am really intrigued by him as a prospect and I haven't gotten to see many UNLV games this season. I think Bennett is someone you have to see in real time and in the context of a live game. That's the only way you can appreciate his star aura IMO. You can analyze him in an abstract way and look at X set of numbers and measurements and come away with an incomplete picture of him. When you watch him though he jumps off the screen. "Holy crap, this kid is big and he is talented!" Some players have that kind of passion and aggressiveness and talent that just pops. All the other players around them recognize it. The fans watching see it too. It's a palpable star aura, for lack of a more sophisticated term. I think Bennett has it. He's fun to root for.

FWIW, I think Nerlens and Shabazz have it too. And they have much more of a reputation than Bennett. Other great players will watch them and appreciate the way they play. Blake Griffin and some of the other Clippers went to a UCLA game and Blake Griffin was interviewed on the sidelines and he said he specifically came to see Shabazz play.

[nate33]

I just wanted to say that you have been a quality addition to the Wizards' board, stevemcqueen1. I really enjoy your draft analysis.