Rasmus vs Gose

The_Hater · Post #1 » by **The_Hater** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:07 pm

Ok, it's only spring training and I'm the last guy to put too much stock in it but here we have Gose having an excellent spring (38 PA's) 344/447/531 along with 5 steals while Rasmus continues to struggle (22 PA's) 125/391/125.

Assuming Gose continues to hit well down in AAA, how much rope is Rasmus going to get this season?

Post #2 » by **Schad** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:17 pm

I wouldn't be keen about throwing Gose back in there too quickly, no matter what Rasmus is doing...Gose still needs a lot of refinement, and I'd rather he gets half a season in AAA (at a normal altitude, where the ball does normal things) before bringing him back up.

Randle McMurphy · Post #3 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:26 pm

Gose's contact rate is just awful. He can't be relied upon to any extent right now offensively. If he fixes that in AAA (and Rasmus struggles), then yeah, Rasmus might be in trouble. But not now, Rasmus will have some rope.

I wouldn't even bother looking at the spring training results and not just for small sample size/hitter timing reasons. Pitchers are often working on fastball command still early in spring and aren't throwing their breaking balls as frequently as they would otherwise (and Gose showed a real weakness on breaking pitches last season).

Graham's Cracker · Post #4 » by **Graham's Cracker** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:44 pm

I'll be interested to see how Rasmus does after working with Chad Mottola too. Although he may never reach his ceiling, settling on an approach and doing it consistently might improve his results.

Avenger · Post #5 » by **Avenger** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:16 am

This Gose fantasy that blue jays fans have has to end, he's not starting material on any half decent team. His hit tool is took weak for him to be much more than a 4th outfielder/pinch runner. He has never hit well enough, at any level to take him seriously. For me the biggest disappointment in the offseason was us not dumping him while he still has some value, well maybe we can still use him as trade bait midseason for a guy like Josh Willingham

I have personally given up hope on Rasmus becoming a star but pretty much all the projection systems see him putting up a solid league average year and if that's the case there's nothing to complain about there. Ideally you'd platoon him with Rajai Davis but that would leave Lind without a platoon partner, the Jays really need another righty bench bat.

Santoki · Post #6 » by **Santoki** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:04 am

Avenger wrote:This Gose fantasy that blue jays fans have has to end, he's not starting material on any half decent team. His hit tool is took weak for him to be much more than a 4th outfielder/pinch runner. He has never hit well enough, at any level to take him seriously. For me the biggest disappointment in the offseason was us not dumping him while he still has some value, well maybe we can still use him as trade bait midseason for a guy like Josh Willingham

I have personally given up hope on Rasmus becoming a star but pretty much all the projection systems see him putting up a solid league average year and if that's the case there's nothing to complain about there. Ideally you'd platoon him with Rajai Davis but that would leave Lind without a platoon partner, the Jays really need another righty bench bat.

So basically Gose's ceiling is Rajai Davis. That sounds about right to be honest.

-MetA4- · Post #7 » by **-MetA4-** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:48 am

Avenger wrote:This Gose fantasy that blue jays fans have has to end, he's not starting material on any half decent team. His hit tool is took weak for him to be much more than a 4th outfielder/pinch runner. He has never hit well enough, at any level to take him seriously.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

LBJSeizedMyID · Post #8 » by **LBJSeizedMyID** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:25 pm

Avenger wrote:This Gose fantasy that blue jays fans have has to end, he's not starting material on any half decent team. His hit tool is took weak for him to be much more than a 4th outfielder/pinch runner. He has never hit well enough, at any level to take him seriously. .

..right now. Guy's only 22. Lay off for at least a couple more years before making any judgments.

Kinger95 · Post #9 » by **Kinger95** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:39 pm

Gose is pretty amazing defensively and if rasmus struggles he is just as good on offence almost, so I hope the leash is short on Colby, he makes it hard to like him, seems like he barely tries and really doesn't care that much on the field. I can see why he didn't get along with LaRusa with the cards, makes it hard to like him ( unlike lawrie,gose,jp they play hard and fans can tell)

There There · Post #10 » by **There There** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:13 pm

I really hope we don't see Gose on the big club this year until September as a late inning substitution for base running/defense.

And this is coming from one of the biggest advocate's of Gose's potential.

To echo Schad, he needs a full year in AAA.

And if this club is going to be as successful this year as we'd all like, they need Rasmus.

If Gose is able to make more consistent contact and cut down on the K's in Buffalo this year then all bets are off next year because Gose already has game changing defense and speed ( the defense bit alone separates him from Rajai ), but his bat is clearly not ready right now.

Post #11 » by **YogiStewart** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:58 pm

let's play devil's advocate.
you trade Rasmus and put Gose into the line-up.
where do you have him hitting? 9th?

Hendrix · Post #12 » by **Hendrix** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:33 pm

YogiStewart wrote:let's play devil's advocate.
you trade Rasmus and put Gose into the line-up.
where do you have him hitting? 9th?

9th for sure.

He's probably the worst on the team in terms of wOBA, OPS, etc.. so you want to limit his at bats by putting him down the order.

He doesn't have HR power, but when he does get on base he can do some damage, so to maximize his strengths, you would want him to be on base when there are guys following him that put the ball in play a lot like Reyes, and Melky.

Michael Bradley · Post #13 » by **Michael Bradley** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:06 pm

Rasmus has two years of control until he is a free agent. I would have no problem with having him play CF everyday for the next two years and then have Gose take over full-time in 2015. I'm not sure what the plans are, though. If the payroll needs to be slashed at all next season then Rasmus to Gose saves a ton of money, so who knows.

The_Hater · Post #14 » by **The_Hater** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:12 pm

Hendrix wrote:He doesn't have HR power,

Are we sure that he won't develop more power as he matures? 16 HR's in AA as a 20 year old isn't the type of number you see out of a guy void of power.

Avenger · Post #15 » by **Avenger** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:38 pm

^ statistical aberration, it happens, probably an out of whack HR/FB ratio. 5 homeruns in Vegas where a curveball(a pitch he can't hit) doesn't curve is unspeakably awful, especially when you're whiffing at that rate.

We'll see what he does in Buffalo but if he doesn't get to double digit homeruns while cutting down the K's, he might not even fulfill his Rajai Davis ceiling

dballislife · Post #16 » by **dballislife** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:56 pm

so many ppl cheering for gose to not be ready for majors any time soon, good job guys

Griff83 · Post #17 » by **Griff83** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:21 am

dballislife wrote:so many ppl cheering for gose to not be ready for majors any time soon, good job guys

Theres plenty of the most vocal posters on this board that have "hated" Gose from day one and really will never give him credit for much.

These same people were losing there minds when we trade Brett friggin Wallace for Gose.

Read this thread.......Just hilarious some of the reactions. In the end this trade shows why professional scouts and management know alot more then SABR internet geeks who solely rely on stats.

viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1042107

Avenger · Post #18 » by **Avenger** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:34 am

FWIW, i think i defended Gose pretty vehemently in that thread although that probably had more to do with how much i disliked Wallace. Schad was right about Gose and i was wrong although he was wrong about Wallace being worth a lot more.

But your point as a whole is completely wrong though, with the amount of information publicly available and given the nature of BAseball as a sport SABR internet geeks(atleast the good ones) are just as good at evaluating players as an profesionals if not better.

Hendrix · Post #19 » by **Hendrix** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:29 am

dballislife wrote:so many ppl cheering for gose to not be ready for majors any time soon, good job guys

??

I'm not seeing anyone doing this.

Hendrix · Post #20 » by **Hendrix** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:53 am

Griff83 wrote:Theres plenty of the most vocal posters on this board that have "hated" Gose from day one and really will never give him credit for much.

These same people were losing there minds when we trade Brett friggin Wallace for Gose.

Read this thread.......Just hilarious some of the reactions. In the end this trade shows why professional scouts and management know alot more then SABR internet geeks who solely rely on stats.

Why do you think people would have a problem giving Gose credit? If there's credit to be given I see about zero reason anyone would have a bias that would prevent them giving credit to Gose. I'm sure everyone wants him to succeed.

I'm not really sure what point there is in looking at this trade in hindsight. A lot of things are easy to evaluate in hindsight. Trying to peg a high risk high reward player in single A is a shot in the dark. And, it's not exactly a staggering 'win' for the Jays in that trade at this point since Gose hasn't exactly even shown he's a major league player yet.

Also, I'm not sure how this trade show why professional scouts and management know a lot more than internet SABR geeks. You realize that the Astros have professional scouts and management too right? And those professional scouts and management were wrong.

Gose was a high A high risk, high reward player. He was a number on a roulette wheel. Anybody claiming that they have any special skill because they 'hit' their number on the roulette wheel is FOS. And, I don't think there's much to brag about since the wheel is still metaphorically spinning on Gose.