2000-2004: Tracy Mcgrady or Kobe Bryant?

[therealbig3]

IDK how anyone is even debating this...

Kobe was CLEARLY the #2 option to Shaq, much more so than Gasol ever was to Kobe.

Doesn't mean Kobe wasn't the #1 option to Gasol, but it was nowhere near as clear cut as it was with Shaq and Kobe.

[An Unbiased Fan]

IDK how anyone is even debating this...

Kobe was CLEARLY the #2 option to Shaq, much more so than Gasol ever was to Kobe.

Doesn't mean Kobe wasn't the #1 option to Gasol, but it was nowhere near as clear cut as it was with Shaq and Kobe.

Except you're wrong. Kobe was the main facilitator, closer, and primary defender. Kobe/Shaq was like Magic/KAJ

[mopper8]

IDK how anyone is even debating this...

Kobe was CLEARLY the #2 option to Shaq, much more so than Gasol ever was to Kobe.

Doesn't mean Kobe wasn't the #1 option to Gasol, but it was nowhere near as clear cut as it was with Shaq and Kobe.

Except you're wrong. Kobe was the main facilitator, closer, and primary defender. Kobe/Shaq was like Magic/KAJ

Only in the last title and the following 2 years. The first 2 titles it was 1/2.

For the entire period, it was definitely Kobe over T-Mac IMO. Remember having this very debate back in 04 and 05 on this board

[JordansBulls]

IDK how anyone is even debating this...

Kobe was CLEARLY the #2 option to Shaq, much more so than Gasol ever was to Kobe.

Doesn't mean Kobe wasn't the #1 option to Gasol, but it was nowhere near as clear cut as it was with Shaq and Kobe.

Yeah it wasn't until 2003 and 2004 where they were more of a 1a, 1b probably give Kobe the edge those years though (at least 2004 for sure).

[DieYoung]

IDK how anyone is even debating this...

Kobe was CLEARLY the #2 option to Shaq, much more so than Gasol ever was to Kobe.

Doesn't mean Kobe wasn't the #1 option to Gasol, but it was nowhere near as clear cut as it was with Shaq and Kobe.

Except you're wrong. Kobe was the main facilitator, closer, and primary defender. Kobe/Shaq was like Magic/KAJ

Shaq/Kobe was more akin to Jordan/Pippen as far as impact goes. Kobe/Gasol is more like Magic/KAJ.

[JordansBulls]

IDK how anyone is even debating this...

Kobe was CLEARLY the #2 option to Shaq, much more so than Gasol ever was to Kobe.

Doesn't mean Kobe wasn't the #1 option to Gasol, but it was nowhere near as clear cut as it was with Shaq and Kobe.

Except you're wrong. Kobe was the main facilitator, closer, and primary defender. Kobe/Shaq was like Magic/KAJ

Shaq/Kobe was more akin to Jordan/Pippen as far as impact goes. Kobe/Gasol is more like Magic/KAJ.

Wouldn't go that far in this scenario. Moses and Dr J would be another good example.

[Asianiac_24]

Can't really be a 1/2 if the 2 constantly outplays or matches the 1 in the biggest series in the playoffs. With the exception of 00, Kobe have outplayed Shaq or at least matched him against the best teams (Spurs). 01 playoffs was the best example.

[BattleTested]

Can't really be a 1/2 if the 2 constantly outplays or matches the 1 in the biggest series in the playoffs. With the exception of 00, Kobe have outplayed Shaq or at least matched him against the best teams (Spurs). 01 playoffs was the best example.

Yeah you can. Look at who the defense is focused in on stopping. Almost always, that guy is the 1st option. Kobe was playing off Shaq those years. Not to say he couldn't have put up better numbers and win without Shaq, because he eventually proved he could, but for those titles Shaq was the focus of the defense. He was the one getting double teamed and having the ball forced out of his hands. Same thing goes for Kobe with Gasol for these last couple rings. Gasol absolutely outplayed Kobe in many games. But he was not the one who the defense was keyed in on.

Spurs series was a great example of that. Duncan and Robinson had such a hard time trying to contain Shaq, that when Kobe went down the lane he just feasted on them.

He was a second option on those teams. I don't know why that's so damning. People act like those rings don't count or something. They're not as valuable as they would be if he was the best player on the team, granted. But they're certainly not unvaluable.

[SDChargers#1]

IDK how anyone is even debating this...

Kobe was CLEARLY the #2 option to Shaq, much more so than Gasol ever was to Kobe.

Doesn't mean Kobe wasn't the #1 option to Gasol, but it was nowhere near as clear cut as it was with Shaq and Kobe.

Except you're wrong. Kobe was the main facilitator, closer, and primary defender. Kobe/Shaq was like Magic/KAJ

Only in the last title and the following 2 years. The first 2 titles it was 1/2.

For the entire period, it was definitely Kobe over T-Mac IMO. Remember having this very debate back in 04 and 05 on this board

The first year ('00) it was clearly Shaq as the man (one of the greatest peaks of all time), and Kobe was just an All Star.

The second year ('01) is actually the closest. I can see the argument for Kobe being better, but I would give Shaq the edge because of the defensive attention. This is the only year of the 3 peat that I can understand a 1a to 1b comparison.

The third year ('02) was certainly closer than the first, but Shaq had a clear edge.

In ('03) I do think it goes back to 1a to 1b comparison. Where you could make a legitimate argument that it was Kobe's team that year. Shaq missed big portions of the season, and Kobe carried them through. If Kobe hadn't gotten injured in the playoffs, we would be speaking very differently about that season.

As for the comparison with T-Mac. I don't know how anyone can give T-Mac the edge in '02. There numbers are essentially the same, except Kobe was a much superior defender, played on team where he had to share the ball a lot more (it has been proven that Kobe's numbers go up without Shaq), and played on a team that was actually winning. I am honestly not sure what the argument is for T-Mac? PER?

'03 is a close as they get, but once again, T-Mac doesn't really have much of an argument. T-Mac has a slight volume and efficiency advantage over Kobe...and that's it. Kobe was better at everything else, and defense by a decent margin. All on a team where he had to share the ball with Shaq. In the games where Shaq didn't play his numbers are way better than T-Mac. So is 2 ppg and 1.4% TS advantage enough to give McGrady the edge? IMO, no.

[JordansBulls]

Can't really be a 1/2 if the 2 constantly outplays or matches the 1 in the biggest series in the playoffs. With the exception of 00, Kobe have outplayed Shaq or at least matched him against the best teams (Spurs). 01 playoffs was the best example.

Yeah but against the Sixers in the finals and then Portland first round in 2002 when he shot 35%?