Raptors Official 2013 Offseason Transaction Idea Thread

[Rapsfan07]

I mentioned this earlier but Denver is a team that could really use Bargnani's services.

He'd come off the bench and play around 20-25mpg, wouldn't have to bear a lot of the scoring load, less pressure and a new scenery. They still have the Nene TPE worth $13million as well as picks to offer. I assume Masai is going to try to S&T for Millsap with the TPE and the NYK 2014 1st + their 2013 pick but if that isn't successful, maybe they'd be interested in Bargnani for the NYK pick + TPE? Or their own 2013 pick + TPE? Both those picks figure to be right around 20 and its unlikely that the 20th pick will be an impact player.

I'd call and inquire.

[bboyskinnylegs]

I mentioned this earlier but Denver is a team that could really use Bargnani's services.

He'd come off the bench and play around 20-25mpg, wouldn't have to bear a lot of the scoring load, less pressure and a new scenery. They still have the Nene TPE worth $13million as well as picks to offer. I assume Masai is going to try to S&T for Millsap with the TPE and the NYK 2014 1st + their 2013 pick but if that isn't successful, maybe they'd be interested in Bargnani for the NYK pick + TPE? Or their own 2013 pick + TPE? Both those picks figure to be right around 20 and its unlikely that the 20th pick will be an impact player.

I'd call and inquire.

I don't see us getting capspace alone for Bargs with his current contract/production, let alone capspace and a 1st. The Nuggets are currently 6 million under the tax, and Lawson's extension kicks in next year. Plus Masai is a good GM

[Rapsfan07]

I mentioned this earlier but Denver is a team that could really use Bargnani's services.

He'd come off the bench and play around 20-25mpg, wouldn't have to bear a lot of the scoring load, less pressure and a new scenery. They still have the Nene TPE worth $13million as well as picks to offer. I assume Masai is going to try to S&T for Millsap with the TPE and the NYK 2014 1st + their 2013 pick but if that isn't successful, maybe they'd be interested in Bargnani for the NYK pick + TPE? Or their own 2013 pick + TPE? Both those picks figure to be right around 20 and its unlikely that the 20th pick will be an impact player.

I'd call and inquire.

I don't see us getting capspace alone for Bargs with his current contract/production, let alone capspace and a 1st. The Nuggets are currently 6 million under the tax, and Lawson's extension kicks in next year. Plus Masai is a good GM

When that extension kicks in, Denver will no longer be under the tax and that 1st will be very late....especislly if its NYK's pick. That's almost a second rounder. I'd do it for Chandler too but I doubt Bargs nets us that

[DatBoiCapspace]

Fields + Acy + Sac 2nd for Jameer Nelson.

Amnesty Kleiza.

Sign Dunleavy Jr. and Alan (Gasp!) Anderson.

Sign Dalembert.

Keep Bargs.

Championship time.

[Viatical]

Amnestying Bargs isn't about opening flexibility this summer, it's about clearing the 12 million in 2014-2015 at the same time, when the Raps will be in luxury tax problems if Lowry is extended or flipped for Jennings on a big deal

If the alternative was not using the amnesty at all this summer, then the "Amnestying Bargs doesn't do anything for us" argument would be valid. Truthfully the best move may be holding onto the amnesty until next summer, trying to trade Bargs for cap relief and then amnestying him then if we can't

But that won't happen for a few reasons. One, Bargs is done here for PR reasons, period. Secondly, if Bargs isn't amnestied Kleiza basically has to be amnestied for lux tax reasons. Almost assured one of them gets amnestied this summer.

It's quite simple really. You amnesty Kleiza and only 4.6 million for one season is cleared. Amnesty Bargs and not only do you clear more this year (11 mil), but more importantly, it dumps 12 million off next season. If the team was smart they wouldn't even consider amnestying Kleiza instead of Bargs. They would be choosing between amnestying Bargs now, or holding onto him next year and trying to trade him, then if they can't amnestying him the year after

But we're not that smart...

Pretty much this. In fact, the "smart" way to do it is to amnesty Kleiza only if a Bargnani trade is already locked in, as two highly complementary roster moves.

The free agency period and the heart of the amnesty period generally overlap with one another, so with prudence, the Raptors should be able to determine if they should still save the one-time amnesty for the summer of 2014 or not.

If things go horribly wrong and Bargnani no longer has *any* trade value, then even the limited utility from a Bargnani amnesty down the road would be a godsend. But for what it's worth, Andrea Bargnani would be the second-best player ever amnestied, behind Luis Scola, and just ahead of players past their primes like Chauncey Billups and Elton Brand.

[DatBoiCapspace]

Amnestying Bargs isn't about opening flexibility this summer, it's about clearing the 12 million in 2014-2015 at the same time, when the Raps will be in luxury tax problems if Lowry is extended or flipped for Jennings on a big deal

If the alternative was not using the amnesty at all this summer, then the "Amnestying Bargs doesn't do anything for us" argument would be valid. Truthfully the best move may be holding onto the amnesty until next summer, trying to trade Bargs for cap relief and then amnestying him then if we can't

But that won't happen for a few reasons. One, Bargs is done here for PR reasons, period. Secondly, if Bargs isn't amnestied Kleiza basically has to be amnestied for lux tax reasons. Almost assured one of them gets amnestied this summer.

It's quite simple really. You amnesty Kleiza and only 4.6 million for one season is cleared. Amnesty Bargs and not only do you clear more this year (11 mil), but more importantly, it dumps 12 million off next season. If the team was smart they wouldn't even consider amnestying Kleiza instead of Bargs. They would be choosing between amnestying Bargs now, or holding onto him next year and trying to trade him, then if they can't amnestying him the year after

But we're not that smart...

Pretty much this. In fact, the "smart" way to do it is to amnesty Kleiza only if a Bargnani trade is already locked in, as two highly complementary roster moves.

The free agency period and the heart of the amnesty period generally overlap with one another, so with prudence, the Raptors should be able to determine if they should still save the one-time amnesty for the summer of 2014 or not.

If things go horribly wrong and Bargnani no longer has *any* trade value, then even the limited utility from a Bargnani amnesty down the road would be a godsend. But for what it's worth, Andrea Bargnani would be the second-best player ever amnestied, behind Luis Scola, and just ahead of players past their primes like Chauncey Billups and Elton Brand.

Youre assuming capspace in '14 is better then expiring contract in 14-15. Our history doesn't back that up.

Amnestying Kleiza helps us improve our bench this year, but we could also keep him as an expiring or buy him out so he can go back to Europe.

Even if Bargs just gets back to his 2010-2012 play, he can be traded during next season. I would only amnesty Bargs this offseason if we have some sort of big S&T in the works, were not even sure if Gay and Lowry resign next year, no point planning for the '14 offseason until that question gets answered.

[Viatical]

Youre assuming capspace in '14 is better then expiring contract in 14-15. Our history doesn't back that up.

No, that's not what is being said at all. This was already established in the post I was responding to. The point of a Bargnani amnesty would be to stay under the luxury tax apron when players who are already Raptors, like Kyle Lowry, are signed against their Bird rights in the summer of 2014. That's not useful "cap space," that's just being able to keep a nucleus together without driving the franchise off a cliff.

Amnestying Kleiza helps us improve our bench this year

No. The Raptors have only one useful way of improving their bench this off-season, and it's through the full $5 million MLE this summer regardless of whether they amnesty Kleiza or not. This is because they're already over the salary cap, but didn't pay luxury tax this season. Amnestying Kleiza is literally what one would do so that the amnesty doesn't go to waste.

but we could also keep him as an expiring or buy him out so he can go back to Europe.

Nobody wants Linas Kleiza. At least in North America. Not the Raptors, not other teams. There would be no wisdom to letting his salary count against the cap for no reason at all.

Even if Bargs just gets back to his 2010-2012 play, he can be traded during next season.

Didn't work out so well this season, though, did it? Bargnani is inexplicably still a Raptor. That's why it's best to at least leave these options open.

I would only amnesty Bargs this offseason if we have some sort of big S&T in the works, were not even sure if Gay and Lowry resign next year, no point planning for the '14 offseason until that question gets answered.

On the contrary, if Lowry and Gay cut and run at the first opportunity in the summer of 2014, then the Raptors finally would have some cap space again and a Bargnani amnesty would make a ton of sense, so they could go out and try to sign somebody to fill the void left by those two players.

Make no mistake, it would be an unmitigated disaster if both left like that, and the Raptors would never be able to sign Rudy Gay-level or (possibly even) Kyle Lowry-level talent that summer, but they would at least want the chance to try to get somebody. The chance to pick up the pieces and rebuild once again.

[DatBoiCapspace]

No. The Raptors have only one useful way of improving their bench this off-season, and it's through the full $5 million MLE this summer regardless of whether they amnesty Kleiza or not. This is because they're already over the salary cap, but didn't pay luxury tax this season. Amnestying Kleiza is literally what one would do so that the amnesty doesn't go to waste.

Except its impossible for us to spend the MLE but still stay under the lux tax next year if we dont get rid of Kleizas deal. So contrary to what you claim, amnestying Kleiza wouldnt be using it for the sake of using it.

And if Gay and Lowry leave next year, we wont be free agent players in '14 whether we have Bargs deal or not. We'll be back in the lottery with a new GM.

[Viatical]

No. The Raptors have only one useful way of improving their bench this off-season, and it's through the full $5 million MLE this summer regardless of whether they amnesty Kleiza or not. This is because they're already over the salary cap, but didn't pay luxury tax this season. Amnestying Kleiza is literally what one would do so that the amnesty doesn't go to waste.

Except its impossible for us to spend the MLE but still stay under the lux tax next year if we dont get rid of Kleizas deal. So contrary to what you claim, amnestying Kleiza wouldnt be using it for the sake of using it.

And if Gay and Lowry leave next year, we wont be free agent players in '14 whether we have Bargs deal or not. We'll be back in the lottery with a new GM.

What are you even arguing here? You're changing your statement and replying to one paragraph in a multi-paragraph post so as to make me seem retroactively wrong here? That's not that impressive, dude.

Here's what you said, and what I responded to:

Amnestying Kleiza helps us improve our bench this year.

That's wrong. Kleiza has no bearing on that this summer or even (as you've now changed your story to) next summer, and I just explained why, in the part of my post you didn't quote. You missed the discussion regarding the difference between cap space and luxury tax apron space, which is fine. Many other posters don't understand it either.

As far as your statements about the future go, you might want to read back to understand what is actually being talked about. In this case, it's a Kleiza amnesty and Bargnani trade for a smaller deal in conjunction with one another. Barring that, it would be a Bargnani amnesty. In both cases, there is no luxury tax being paid.

[DatBoiCapspace]

^^
I didnt change any statement. I said amnestying Kleiza helps us improve our bench next season, you said it didnt. I am arguing that yes it does because the Raptors will be more inclined to spend their MLE if they amnesty Kleiza versus keeping him. And for obvious reasons being able to spend the MLE helps us improve our bench. Thats the logic to amnestying Kleiza.

It would be great if we could potentially amensty both Kleiza and Bargs, but we cant. So if you don't amnesty anyone this offseason like the poster you agreed with suggested, there are consequences to that because we A) it will be harder to improve our bench next season and B) we might still end up paying the lux tax regardless. Not an ideal scenario at all and considering the unknowns going into the '14 offseason (Bargs trade value, Lowry + Gay's future with the team) it is perfectly reasonable to not hold onto the the amnesty and decide to use it on Kleiza now.

[Viatical]

^^
I didnt change any statement. I said amnestying Kleiza helps us improve our bench next season, you said it didnt. I am arguing that yes it does because the Raptors will be more inclined to spend their MLE if they amnesty Kleiza versus keeping him. Thats the logic to amnestying Kleiza.

Why on earth do you think the Raptors would have no interest in spending their MLE this summer, and that Linas Kleiza, of all people, would be an obstacle to that? The Raptors would have about $65 million in salary obligations on the books next season even if they're STILL carrying Kleiza and Bargnani. The luxury tax threshold is north of $70 million. Your conclusion that carrying Kleiza puts them into the tax for next season is just false. For god's sake, just do the 30 seconds of googling it takes to check this stuff before you make these kinds of silly proclamations. It would really raise the level of discourse on this board.

It would be great if we could potentially amensty both Kleiza and Bargs, but we cant. So if you don't amnesty anyone this offseason like the poster you agreed with suggested, there are consequences to that because we A) it will be harder to improve our bench next season and B) we might still end up paying the lux tax regardless. Not an ideal scenario at all and considering the unknowns going into the '14 offseason (Bargs trade value, Lowry + Gay's future with the team) it is perfectly reasonable to not hold onto the the amnesty and decide to use it on Kleiza now.

None of this is right either. I notice that you've gone from claiming definitively that not amnestying Kleiza puts the Raptors in the luxury tax, and it's somehow "impossible" for them to not be, to saying "we might still end up paying the lux tax regardless."

You're also "arguing" as though I'm saying amnestying Kleiza would be a bad idea, but the essence of what I'm saying (for like the fifth time now) is that the only problem with it is that it forecloses an amnesty of Bargnani down the road. And given how awful of a season Bargnani just had, and the fact that it has concluded with a mysterious injury, could make Bargnani a more valuable amnesty target than Kleiza at this point. The "amnestying him still doesn't give the Raptors cap space so you might as well amnesty Kleiza" strategy only makes sense if Bargnani can be flipped for a smaller deal this summer and the Raptors still have an interest in ducking the tax. Since Bargnani's value has plummeted and will likely never recover, then you obviously go with the amnesty target who can at least keep the team below the luxury tax while maintaining resigning possibilities in the summer of 2014. This ain't so hard to get, friend. This disastrous, injury-plagued season by Bargnani has changed the calculus.

[DatBoiCapspace]

^^
I didnt change any statement. I said amnestying Kleiza helps us improve our bench next season, you said it didnt. I am arguing that yes it does because the Raptors will be more inclined to spend their MLE if they amnesty Kleiza versus keeping him. Thats the logic to amnestying Kleiza.

Why on earth do you think the Raptors would have no interest in spending their MLE this summer, and that Linas Kleiza, of all people, would be an obstacle to that? The Raptors would have about $65 million in salary obligations on the books next season even if they're STILL carrying Kleiza and Bargnani. The luxury tax threshold is north of $70 million. Your conclusion that carrying Kleiza puts them into the tax for next season is just false. For god's sake, just do the 30 seconds of googling it takes to check this stuff before you make these kinds of silly proclamations. It would really raise the level of discourse on this board.

It would be great if we could potentially amensty both Kleiza and Bargs, but we cant. So if you don't amnesty anyone this offseason like the poster you agreed with suggested, there are consequences to that because we A) it will be harder to improve our bench next season and B) we might still end up paying the lux tax regardless. Not an ideal scenario at all and considering the unknowns going into the '14 offseason (Bargs trade value, Lowry + Gay's future with the team) it is perfectly reasonable to not hold onto the the amnesty and decide to use it on Kleiza now.

None of this is right either. I notice that you've gone from claiming definitively that not amnestying Kleiza puts the Raptors in the luxury tax, and it's somehow "impossible" for them to not be, to saying "we might still end up paying the lux tax regardless."

You're also "arguing" as though I'm saying amnestying Kleiza would be a bad idea, but the essence of what I'm saying (for like the fifth time now) is that the only problem with it is that it forecloses an amnesty of Bargnani down the road. And given how awful of a season Bargnani just had, and the fact that it has concluded with a mysterious injury, could make Bargnani a more valuable amnesty target than Kleiza at this point. The "amnestying him still doesn't give the Raptors cap space so you might as well amnesty Kleiza" strategy only makes sense if Bargnani can be flipped for a smaller deal this summer and the Raptors still have an interest in ducking the tax. Since Bargnani's value has plummeted and will likely never recover, then you obviously go with the amnesty target who can at least keep the team below the luxury tax while maintaining resigning possibilities in the summer of 2014. This ain't so hard to get, friend. This disastrous, injury-plagued season by Bargnani has changed the calculus.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/TOR.html

Says here the Raptors have 73 million on the books next season. Hows that for raising the discourse?

[Viatical]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/TOR.html

Says here the Raptors have 73 million on the books next season. Hows that for raising the discourse?

Your reasoning is terrible, you keep changing your positions to seem less wrong about this, and even your "aha!" checkmate moment is completely undercut by the fact that you evidently didn't read any of the (important) text below it, so that you'd understand what guaranteed amounts would actually count against the cap next season.

If it's all the same to you, I'm going to go ahead and just roll my eyes to this entire conversation at this point, starting with your first didn't-read straw man that "[we] somehow thought amnestying Bargnani would give us cap space" and ending with your not understanding how guaranteed salary obligations and what counts against the cap for tax purposes can be two different things. If it's all the same to you.

[DatBoiCapspace]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/TOR.html

Says here the Raptors have 73 million on the books next season. Hows that for raising the discourse?

Your reasoning is terrible, you keep changing your positions to seem less wrong about this, and even your "aha!" checkmate moment is completely undercut by the fact that you evidently didn't read any of the (important) text below it, so that you'd understand what guaranteed amounts would actually count against the cap next season.

wtf are you talking about? I havent changed any position once. Do the Raptors have 65 million on the books as you claim, or 73 million? If its 65, then youre right. But If its 73, then you can see why amnestying Kleiza helps them afford to spend the MLE this year, which obviously helps them improve their bench, so in that case everything you just posted is wrong and you need to accept that and move on.

[Spacing]

Raptors thread sends Viatical and DatBoiCapSpace to OT board for 2 future posters

[DatBoiCapspace]

Lol OT board looks turrible. I'd prefer to be amnestied so I can sign with Raptors Republic.

[Marvin Martian]

Does anyone feels safe with this backcourt moving forward? If we keep our draft pick this season, I wouldn't mind seeing a deal done for a high quality talent like Tyreke Evans.

[JB7]

Andrea & DeRozan for Dirk

- DD is key to the deal
- Dallas starts rebuild
- Raps get veteran star (near the end of his career) GG type of move - trade some of the future for present; maybe has 3-4 years left

C - Val (Gray)
PF - Dirk (Amir)
SF - Gay
SG - Fields (Ross)
PG - Lowry (Lucas)

Absolutely no chance Dallas does this deal.

They're not going to back stab Dirk and especially not for hot garbage and a SG Magette.

You never know with Cuban. He has allowed aging stars to leave in the past (Kidd, Nash, Chandler...)

The package of DeRozan and Bargnani could be offered to at least three teams:
- Dallas (Dirk) - needs youth
- LA (Gasol) - needs depth
- Minnesota (Love) - needs wings

Toronto gets veteran help in the front court, and frees up minutes for Ross & Jonas.

[Marvin Martian]

1. Demar Derozan to DET for Rodney Stuckey and Brandon Knight.

We get an expiring for DD and backup PG while DET gets their SG of the future.


2. Kyle Lowry and Landry Fields to LAC for Caron Butler and Eric Bledsoe

We get an expiring and a better defensive PG to build around with the core


3. Demar Derozan and Landry Fields to IND for Danny Granger

IND gets a SG and much needed depth while we get a huge expiring and clear some cap

[Zappa012]

We need to wait 'til Morey's next move, then try to get T Jones for cheap.

We have no chance for Josh Smith and T Jones is a left-handed athletic PF in rookie scale contract.

Jones/Val fits pretty good imho.