James Harden is a superstar

JordansBulls · Post #1421 » by **JordansBulls** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:20 pm

Wish the Bulls had this guy. Would have traded Noah for him.

pancakes3 · Post #1422 » by **pancakes3** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:57 pm

The Infamous1 wrote:There's a big difference between taking smart shots and going out of your way to specifically protect your FG or 3PT percentage.

I'm not sure there is a "big" difference. In fact, entire defensive schemes are built off the idea of manipulating opponents' TS%'s.

Seriously, people taking shots they know will fall most effectively is the essence of basketball. It's why big men dunk rather than finger-roll and why guards step back for a 3 rather than step forward for a long 2. It's why a drive to a basket is preferred to a pull up jumper.

We should all be so lucky that everyone in the league "statpads" their TS%. It would result in some more beautiful basketball. Jordan Crawford would also be out of a job.

Post #1423 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:06 pm

Krodis wrote:I mean, there ARE ways to pad your TS% that aren't good basketball: Passing it aimlessly towards the end of the shot clock, not going for two for ones, and not taking end of quarter shots. But given that Harden isn't really guilty of those, anything else is just good basketball.

What's interesting about this is that basically all of those would result in FG% padding as well...and FG% padding is rampant. From Tim Hardaway (who sucked at efficiency) to Kevin Durant (who is great) we have people admitting that at times they purposefully don't get the end of the quarter shot off in time to save their efficiency.

So it's not that that doesn't exist, and it's not that Harden might not be doing it that's silly about the allegation here: It's that people are so desperate to knock Harden that they've literally associated TS% with stat padding when in reality "padding" that particular stat as opposed to FG% simply means trying to work for better shots. Back when Harden shot less you could allege he actively refuses to shoot tougher shots, but now he's a volume scorer. He's shooting plenty. He's not doing anything but being smart...and yet some just don't trust that.

vincecarter4pres · Post #1424 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:24 pm

The reason I think it's roll on the floor funny to think he's padding his TS% is because aside from hardcore fans like us on message boards, random bloggers and some front office guys whose names we never as the public even know, there are very few people who give a **** about advanced stats like TS% when it comes to any accolades, or main stream media recognition or even barber shop politics.

I mean when's the last time you heard Barkley or Shaq or Ernie on TNT, or any of the guys on Sports Center talking about, "His WS/48 and eFG% were through the roof!"?

When's the last time you heard someone inducted into the Hall of Fame, "Michael posted back to back to back to back seasons of +60TS% while leading the league in scoring!"?

Or the last time you heard Matt Winer on NBATV discussing All Star nominations with Steve Smith and Dennis Scott, "They had to take Duncan, look at his TRB%!"?

As of now players are still judged by gaudy raw stats and if their team is winning games for the most part.

Maybe Harden himself is a stat geek and really loves True Shooting Percentage haha, but I find this whole conspiracy hard to believe in it's simplest form instead of at least he's trying to keep his raw 3 point percentage high and his trips to the line up and therefore those essentially pad his TS% indirectly and even that is kind of fishy.

PER is maybe the only advanced that gets a lot of mainstream media and casual fan attention.

JordansBulls · Post #1425 » by **JordansBulls** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:49 am

Anyone think Harden will end up getting a scoring title before someone like Melo?

Ayt · Post #1426 » by **Ayt** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:52 am

JordansBulls wrote:Anyone think Harden will end up getting a scoring title before someone like Melo?

Absolutely.

E-Balla · Post #1427 » by **E-Balla** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:11 am

JordansBulls wrote:Anyone think Harden will end up getting a scoring title before someone like Melo?

He's not a 30 ppg type. I know 28 is all you need nowadays but I personally think his usage will drop in future seasons (with Parsons and Lin improving they'll get the ball more).

CKRT · Post #1428 » by **CKRT** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:27 am

Just out of curiosity, does PER kind of underrate Harden because he doesn't have a high FGA number?

NinjaSheppard · Post #1429 » by **NinjaSheppard** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:46 am

Harden is amazing but his defense has gotten unacceptably bad. He is pretty much singlehandedly killing his team tonight by refusing to rotate. Definitely something that needs to be taken into account outside of his offensive number.

Post #1430 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:00 am

GC Pantalones wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Anyone think Harden will end up getting a scoring title before someone like Melo?

He's not a 30 ppg type. I know 28 is all you need nowadays but I personally think his usage will drop in future seasons (with Parsons and Lin improving they'll get the ball more).

Interesting. This implies that Melo IS clearly a 30 PPG type despite the fact that he can't actually score 30 PPG>

This would be a chance for me to make clear than I'm an Einstein-type except that I haven't revolutionized a scientific field. :wink:

nunemouse · Post #1431 » by **nunemouse** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:29 am

CKRT wrote:Just out of curiosity, does PER kind of underrate Harden because he doesn't have a high FGA number?

I think this may be due to the pace that the Rockets play at (and mpg of Harden)? Idk.

Post #1432 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:17 am

CKRT wrote:Just out of curiosity, does PER kind of underrate Harden because he doesn't have a high FGA number?

I don't know if I'd say that PER is underrating him. The Rockets play at a fast pace. That's going to cause Harden's box score numbers to look more impressive than they actually are.

This is not to say PER can't overrate players of course, and one of the two groups most hurt are the smart ones (the other is the defenders). Smart players are always doing things to subtle for the box score to catch so PER underrates them. Harden belongs to that category so it's possible he's being underrated now to some degree by PER...that may or may not though be as big of an underrating factor as the pace is an overrating factor.

CKRT · Post #1433 » by **CKRT** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:04 am

Well, from my understanding, PER rewards high volume scorers. So could this be hurting Harden's PER or does PER place correct value in FTs like TS% does with attempts?

JordansBulls · Post #1434 » by **JordansBulls** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:22 pm

Anyone think Harden will make 1st team all nba this season?

LarsV8 · Post #1435 » by **LarsV8** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:31 pm

He deserves it but for whatever reason, Kobe is always defaulted All NBA and All defensive awards.

fallacy · Post #1436 » by **fallacy** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:39 pm

can anyone explain why the Rockets have technically been better with Harden off the court all season? I didn't want to bring it up before because people would just yell sample size, but now that the season is over we can discuss it. His net rating all season has been between -1 and -6, and is currently -3.4. For comparison, Kendrick Perkins is +0.4

Asik is a net +7.3, so it's not just the starting unit. Delfino is even +5.9, so it's not just Asik.

I'm not saying that Harden makes the Rockets worse, so why do the numbers say he does?

E-Balla · Post #1437 » by **E-Balla** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:59 pm

Ayt wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Anyone think Harden will end up getting a scoring title before someone like Melo?

Absolutely.

Doctor MJ wrote:
GC Pantalones wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Anyone think Harden will end up getting a scoring title before someone like Melo?

He's not a 30 ppg type. I know 28 is all you need nowadays but I personally think his usage will drop in future seasons (with Parsons and Lin improving they'll get the ball more).

Interesting. This implies that Melo IS clearly a 30 PPG type despite the fact that he can't actually score 30 PPG>

This would be a chance for me to make clear than I'm an Einstein-type except that I haven't revolutionized a scientific field.

Post #1438 » by **Doctor MJ** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:37 am

GC Pantalones wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:Interesting. This implies that Melo IS clearly a 30 PPG type despite the fact that he can't actually score 30 PPG>

This would be a chance for me to make clear than I'm an Einstein-type except that I haven't revolutionized a scientific field.

I find this odd. Do you think Melo has proven my statement wrong?

Post #1439 » by **Doctor MJ** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:37 am

JordansBulls wrote:Anyone think Harden will make 1st team all nba this season?

I expect it to be Kobe.

TheChosen618 · Post #1440 » by **TheChosen618** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:40 am

fallacy wrote:can anyone explain why the Rockets have technically been better with Harden off the court all season? I didn't want to bring it up before because people would just yell sample size, but now that the season is over we can discuss it. His net rating all season has been between -1 and -6, and is currently -3.4. For comparison, Kendrick Perkins is +0.4

Asik is a net +7.3, so it's not just the starting unit. Delfino is even +5.9, so it's not just Asik.

I'm not saying that Harden makes the Rockets worse, so why do the numbers say he does?

It probably has to do with the fact that the Rockets have the best backup/bench guards in the NBA. I've always said that those +/-, net rating numbers are very dependent on lineups and who your backups are rather than how good and how much of an impact the player makes.