Around the nba part 6

[mpharris36]

we have 2 games against boston this month. it goes without saying, they're gonna be very important.

yes but more important for them

we have the ability to split...they make up no ground

but we have to split...they have to win 2

[K_ick_God]

I think unless you're talking about teams that rarely lose like Miami and San Antonio, making "the loss column" the standing of record doesn't make sense.

It's just better to be 2 games ahead and 3 in the loss column than 2 ahead and 2 in the loss column.

[Falstaffxx]

I think unless you're talking about teams that rarely lose like Miami and San Antonio, making "the loss column" the standing of record doesn't make sense.

It's just better to be 2 games ahead and 3 in the loss column than 2 ahead and 2 in the loss column.

You're probably right that's it's slightly better - I just don't think it overrides games behind/games ahead. If the Knicks had played 3 more games than the Nets, and had 2 more wins but 1 more loss, the Knicks would still be ahead, IMO.

[ibraheim718]

They began struggling when the 3s stopped falling as much and the defensive intensity vanished. However having these injuries, I would imagine, hasn't helped. I would also imagine that something like Stat, the other 19 mill guy, being nonexistent as had a little bit of an impact as well.. perhaps much more than "Melo ISOs" etc etc..

I don't have a problem with Melo Iso's.. but when your team becomes too reliant on them you're in for some trouble. And I think the team started to struggle when Wallace went down (believe it or not.. that's what I saw)... the 3's were never going to keep falling at that rate.. so if people are thinking they can regain that form again they're in for some rough times ahead. The other problem is this coach is still coaching this team as if those shots are going to start falling again and they're not. He needed to adjust his offense and adapt.. way too many high PnR.. not enough off the ball movement towards the basket.. not enough curls ran for Melo.. not enough back screens being set.. and completely overlooking back door cuts.

In fact, bringing stuff like that up, to me, is nothing more than people voicing what that they don't like about the team because it's an opportune time to -- and not because it's the cause... which is fine, but a distinction needs to be made, imo.

It's too bad this doesn't apply to me.. because I've been a seller on this team and a few of the players and off season moves since day1 (Posters can claim they have reasons as to why.. but that don't mean jack chit to me because I know why in my heart and in my basketball mind). I've said the same things I've been saying presently that I said in the past in the midst of the hot streak and going back to the preseason.

Yes Melo is the true 19 million dollar player.. And this may be "his team" .. but that still doesn't change the fact that this team, more or less, is basically playing as if they threw 19 mill of cap space away. To me, that pretty much throws out all real expectations for this team. Yeah I still expect Melo to win with this team and perform-- but not anywhere near where I would if we had a real superstar playing next to him, or even a healthy Amare... Because no one thought Melo was Lebron James to begin with.. and I think James is probably the only one that could take this current team and turn it into some sort of "true contender" ... But alas, those damned isos.

When you have the team talking BIG before the season.. attacking former players and writing big checks that I knew they couldn't cash.. and you have the fan base talking big and writing those same checks... then you better expect to be held to those expectations.

[GettinitDone]

Man, Lin has been playing so aggressive I think too aggressive that it might not be good for his knee, just don't want another torn meniscus... he played a terrible game. 21pts, very good field goal, but only 4 assists. His goal should be to get 8apg at least.

[frogfood]

People have to make baskets to get assists. They played awful.

[Thugger HBC]

Man, Lin has been playing so aggressive I think too aggressive that it might not be good for his knee, just don't want another torn meniscus... he played a terrible game. 21pts, very good field goal, but only 4 assists. His goal should be to get 8apg at least.

Boxscore analysis, Lin played very well, one of the few that did.

Considering everyone bricked those dimes were excellent

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[kakaman]

Man, Lin has been playing so aggressive I think too aggressive that it might not be good for his knee, just don't want another torn meniscus... he played a terrible game. 21pts, very good field goal, but only 4 assists. His goal should be to get 8apg at least.

So you expect him to get almost prime CP3 numbers. Gotcha.

[knicks94]

I am surprised that there isn't a thread in which Knicks fans admit that D'antoni isn't that bad of a coach. Look at how he has turned the Laker's season around and look at how the Knicks don't look any better now with a different coach.

[frogfood]

Yeaaa, let's not go down that road for he love of God.

[offense]

I am surprised that there isn't a thread in which Knicks fans admit that D'antoni isn't that bad of a coach. Look at how he has turned the Laker's season around and look at how the Knicks don't look any better now with a different coach.

i think it has to do more with the players themselves than dantoni honestly.

[thebuzzardman]

You mean how the Knicks didn't go on 55-30 run with Woodson?

Don't recall D'Antoni racking the wins up, though the squads early on were trade bait etc.

Knicks got better for a while under Woodson.

Didn't anyone not excpect the lakers to get better at somepoint with Kobe\Dwight\Nash, once they were reasonably healthy? They way underachieved, then had injuries before and after D'Antoni.

I guess you can say he's not getting in the way too much, though I still think D'Antoni gets a lot less out of his rosters than other coaches.

[Thugger HBC]

I am surprised that there isn't a thread in which Knicks fans admit that D'antoni isn't that bad of a coach. Look at how he has turned the Laker's season around and look at how the Knicks don't look any better now with a different coach.

The Knicks have never been under .500 under Woodson's watch.

D'antoni has experienced that dubious distinction twice with two different teams.

Howard playing great has helped turn them around....D'antoni is only a suit opposite of the court side seats.

[seren]

I am surprised that there isn't a thread in which Knicks fans admit that D'antoni isn't that bad of a coach. Look at how he has turned the Laker's season around and look at how the Knicks don't look any better now with a different coach.

The Knicks have never been under .500 under Woodson's watch.

D'antoni has experienced that dubious distinction twice with two different teams.

Howard playing great has helped turn them around....D'antoni is only a suit opposite of the court side seats.

So Lakers' successes belong to the players whereas Knicks' to the coach?

So convenient...

[Thugger HBC]

I am surprised that there isn't a thread in which Knicks fans admit that D'antoni isn't that bad of a coach. Look at how he has turned the Laker's season around and look at how the Knicks don't look any better now with a different coach.

The Knicks have never been under .500 under Woodson's watch.

D'antoni has experienced that dubious distinction twice with two different teams.

Howard playing great has helped turn them around....D'antoni is only a suit opposite of the court side seats.

So Lakers' successes belong to the players whereas Knicks' to the coach?

So convenient...

Are you denying Howard is getting healthier?

but the point is the D'antoni way made both teams suck.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I am surprised that there isn't a thread in which Knicks fans admit that D'antoni isn't that bad of a coach. Look at how he has turned the Laker's season around and look at how the Knicks don't look any better now with a different coach.

the lakers playing better has little to do with d'antoni being not "that bad of a coach." he's still garbage.

[seren]

So Lakers' successes belong to the players whereas Knicks' to the coach?

So convenient...

Are you denying Howard is getting healthier?

but the point is the D'antoni way made both teams suck.

Of course I am not denying Howard is getting healthier. What does it have to do with anything?

DAntoni way made which teams suck?

[seren]

You can't have it both ways. You can't say Lakers are better now because they have less injuries within the same sentence Lakers were struggling earlier because of the coach. DAntoni might be an OK PG back in the day, but that doesn't mean he could play today.

[Thugger HBC]

D'antoni is garbage no matter what....led two two teams to .500 records.

[GONYK]

Here is something I found very interesting, that is tangential to the coaching thread I made last week and the sort of coaching debate happening now about Woodson, D'Antoni etc...

It's an article written by Bill Simmons about Doc Rivers in 07'.

Here is an excerpt, but I find the whole thing worth reading. For perspective, if nothing else.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/061115



I found that comment fascinating: Not that Dad wanted to trade Pierce, but his unbiased belief that keeping Doc Rivers gave Boston the best chance at finishing with a high lottery pick. Seriously, what more do you need to know? If we're gunning for Oden next spring, either we could be blatant about this quest, fire Doc and hire Joe the Alcoholic Counter Guy from the Charlestown Store 24 … or we could keep Doc and guarantee six more months of close losses, defensive breakdowns, stagnant offense, convoluted excuses and an NBA coach substituting players every 90 seconds like he's coaching a hockey team. Unfortunately for Oden lovers, Danny Ainge and the Boston owners believe their team still has a chance -- and they might be right, given the lack of talent in the East this season -- so Joe the Alcoholic Counter Guy is out. And so is Doc.

(Note to reader: When we update this section after the actual firing, assuming it happens, I'll say something nice about the interim coach and point out that his best quality is that he's not Doc Rivers. Also, if Danny decides to take over the team -- and for the love of God, I hope he does -- it's worth mentioning that he finished his Phoenix stint with a 136-90 record and was considered one of the best young coaches around before resigning for family reasons. Anyone who wins 56 games without a center and with Rex Chapman as a go-to guy is legitimate in my book. Back to the column.)


Elsa / Getty Images
Is "come-from-ahead loss" the defining phrase of the Doc Rivers era?
Doc must be relieved. Secretly, anyway. He spent the past two weeks coaching with the same look that Michael Corleone had when he was working up the courage to shoot McCluskey and Sollozzo. On opening night, his team crapped the bed in front of a sellout crowd and 20-25 former Boston legends on hand to honor Red Auerbach's legacy. That was followed by predictable losses to Detroit and Washington, then an ugly nail-biter win over a putrid Charlotte team (with Doc getting lustily booed during the pregame introductions). Last Friday night, he waited three quarters to go small against Utah, even though New Jersey had beaten them two nights before by playing Kidd, Jefferson, Vince and Antoine Wright at the same time. (By the time Doc tried the same tactic, we were trailing by 15 and it was too late. Either we need more scouts, or Doc needs to spring for League Pass.) The following night, we blew a 25-point lead in Cleveland in the span of about three seconds -- it would have been an unbelievable collapse except for the fact that everyone who follows this team could see it coming a mile away.

Wait, you don't believe me? Driving to a birthday party in Hermosa Beach, Calif., and listening to the game on Sirius, we were up 70-45 midway through the third when I was parking the car. Did I feel safe with a 25-point lead? Of course not. About 45 minutes later, I couldn't get reception on my cell phone and made a buddy hunt down the score to make sure we didn't blow the game. "Wow, it's 94-93, Cleveland!" he exhaled, glancing up from his phone in shock. I wasn't shocked. I wasn't even remotely shocked. That was also the night Ogi in NYC sent me this e-mail: "Why the Celtics must keep Doc Rivers: Greg Oden 7-0 265 C Ohio St. Fr."

(Ladies and gentleman, the Doc Rivers era!)

During a somber home game on Monday, Doc (now looking like Mikey after the answering machine scene in "Swingers") played 11 guys in the first 13 minutes against Orlando (the same team that fired him after a 1-10 start). The subs were coming fast and furiously, to the point that I think our penalty-killing line was out there at some point. Meanwhile, Jameer Nelson was putting himself on the map as the fifth opposing point guard in six games to destroy the Celts on high screens. (Quick tangent: Defending the high screen comes down to philosophy and coaching. We have neither. We couldn't even defend the high screen when Antoine Walker and Gary Payton were here, which was interesting because they jumped ship to Miami and immediately regained the ability to defend high screens.) Anyway, thanks to a spark from Rajon Rondo (our most talented point guard, even though it took Doc until mid-November to realize it), we surged ahead in the final three minutes before the "everyone stand around and watch Paul" offense killed the momentum. Eventually, Orlando regained the lead and clinched the game on one of those "team grabs an offensive rebound off a missed free throw, then gets the backbreaking layup off a bad defensive switch" sequences that have defined the Doc era.

Following the game, Doc blamed Pierce for failing to box out on the missed free throw, which was interesting for two reasons. First, Pierce DID box out. I recorded the game on TiVo. The ball just bounced over his head. It happens. And second, instead of putting in two rebounders with Trevor Ariza at the line (a poor free throw shooter), Doc went in the other direction and yanked Kendrick Perkins (our tallest guy) for Ryan Gomes (who's 6-foot-7), leaving two small forwards on the low block to grab a potential Ariza miss with less than 90 seconds to play. I mentioned that he's a career 60 percent FT shooter, right? The important thing to remember is that the whole thing was Pierce's fault because he was too short to grab the rebound. Whatever. The players screwed up the "little things" down the stretch, as always. It's the hallmark of a poorly coached team, whether you're watching Doc and the Celtics, Terry Stotts and the Bucks or whomever else.