Non-threadworthy MMA Rumors/Quotes/Tweets, etc.

[lilfishi22]

I see why it's controversial, sorta, but the medical science clearly points out that she has irreversible maleness after adolescence - bone structure, tendons, etc. Limiting her current hormone make-up cannot reverse that.

I don't see how there's anyway you can let her fight with that advantage.

My issue is that there is not enough research on this but in her case it's clear she still has certain physical advantages over her opponents just by having a male past. There is controversy because there are conflicting reports even among medical professionals regarding this issue.

Should the ruling be based on bone density? Age at which the conversion took place? Physical dimensions compared to the average? Or are we just make it a rule that transgender cannot compete in WMMA? What if a transgender is found to be average in every way?

I am leaning towards your thinking but until more research is done, I think it is open to for discussion.

[REDDzone]

I lean towards cbr thinking but the crazy libertarian in me kind of thinks if her opponent knows about it, and is aware of the risks, they should be able to do it.

That said, she came out today and said she shouldn't even have to tell her opponents she used to be a dude. I personally think that is absurd. I actually take issue with the fact she was finishing opponents in the first round who thought they were fighting a girl from the start.

edit: I've seen two medical professionals opinions here, btw. The firs said she was 100% good to go, but honestly this professional had a personal interest here, as it was a doctor who performs those procedures. There is incentive there to say if you take his hormone therapy, you are 100% female. The other was just a surgeon who said a male who has went through puberty will always have advantages over a born female because of their larger/longer bone structure.

[cowboyronnie]

100% a female? ^ That doesn't stand any common sense. You couldn't turn Matt Hughes female with a batch of hormones and genital reassignment surgery.

There's surely a bunch of medical procedures you can't have and still compete as an athlete. This has got to be one of them. Sports are sexed.

A counter, I guess, would be that a lot of pro athletes probably are fed synthetic hormones during adolescence and so have irreversible gains no matter their current hormone make-up. Like, I don't know much about basketball, but Lebron James' bone structure is effing insane. If he or someone else had been fed HGH and steroids at 14-15 (as H.S. athletes certainly are), he would have a huge advantage...forever. This is sort of the same, I guess. Instead of taking supplemental male hormones as a male, she underwent natural male hormones and then switched her sex.

IDK. Is this a big issue for the trans community? Social acceptance certainly ought to be but this is something else and I don't think necessarily complicit with social exclusion. It's an impossible situation to resolve fairly, no?

[lilfishi22]

I lean towards cbr thinking but the crazy libertarian in me kind of thinks if her opponent knows about it, and is aware of the risks, they should be able to do it.

That said, she came out today and said she shouldn't even have to tell her opponents she used to be a dude. I personally think that is absurd. I actually take issue with the fact she was finishing opponents in the first round who thought they were fighting a girl from the start.

edit: I've seen two medical professionals opinions here, btw. The firs said she was 100% good to go, but honestly this professional had a personal interest here, as it was a doctor who performs those procedures. There is incentive there to say if you take his hormone therapy, you are 100% female. The other was just a surgeon who said a male who has went through puberty will always have advantages over a born female because of their larger/longer bone structure.

Yep, I read that article too. They both clearly have a conflict of interest when it comes to their views. Both are gender reassignment docs and one is a transgender herself. Not saying there is zero truth to what they say but I can't see how there can't be a conflict of interest there. There is another article with professional opnion arguing against allowing her to fight in WMMA as well. I certainly take issue with her saying she doesn't have to disclose her previous gender to her opponent. That's like going into a fight without knowing your opponent has brass knuckle implants.

IDK. Is this a big issue for the trans community? Social acceptance certainly ought to be but this is something else and I don't think necessarily complicit with social exclusion. It's an impossible situation to resolve fairly, no?

Fox is clearly making this a social acceptance issue when she's calling for full non-disclosure of her "changes." But I don't think this is a social acceptance issue and more a safety issue. I'm with Joe Rogan here

If you really are a woman trapped in a man's body, I support your right to do whatever you want to do. Go for it. If that's what makes you happy, I would not try to stop that at all and I support it 100%. The real issue comes with violent competition with women and the reality of the physical structure of your body. The reality of the physical structure is not fair. You can't say that a 145 pound woman and a 145 pound man are even.

[REDDzone]

100% a female? ^ That doesn't stand any common sense. You couldn't turn Matt Hughes female with a batch of hormones and genital reassignment surgery.

Dude idk. I don't want to misquote anyone and I was speaking shorthand. But their general conclusion, from what I gathered, was after the surgery and the I think 2 years of hormone replacement therapy, she would essentially be female and have no advantages over men. Again, my understanding.

[SDM]

She would have no advantage in terms of blood levels, but bone density won't change ever. AFAIK.

[REDDzone]

I'd have to find articles, but I think they said bone density will change with the hormone therapy. I'll look later, but if you are interested, it was the UG website guys who did the interviews with all the medical people on this topic.

[REDDzone]

mmahour listen:

Not surprised to hear Nick is still butthurt that he ducked Braulio.

[REDDzone]

Found it: http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/43 ... allon-Fox/

[SDM]

mmahour listen:

Not surprised to hear Nick is still butthurt that he ducked Braulio.

Is this the Kron Gracie/UFC 158 locker room story?

[SDM]

Thanks for finding the link, RZ. I'm obviously no doctor (not even a nurse!), but I'm skeptical of that claim... I've read otherwise from male doctors. Being transgendered herself, I think that particular doctor has too much skin in the game to be neutral. Fox is also fighting her fight.

[REDDzone]

mmahour listen:

Not surprised to hear Nick is still butthurt that he ducked Braulio.

Is this the Kron Gracie/UFC 158 locker room story?

Yea well before that, Nick was pushing Braulio in the cage. I guess Dana approached him and even said thanks for not pushing back and escalating it. Funny that Kron would hide behind the Diaz brothers and talk smack. Its funny because when Nick was being interviewed, Braulio approached Kron and they clasped hands and seemingly had a nice word. Then they go in the lockerroom and Kron has something to say with the Diaz's there? lol.

[REDDzone]

I still think there is just too much incentive to make those claims. She kind of dodges anyway, she isn't going to come out and say the surgery and years long hormone replacement she provides only 'kind of' makes you not a man.

[SDM]

mmahour listen:

Not surprised to hear Nick is still butthurt that he ducked Braulio.

Is this the Kron Gracie/UFC 158 locker room story?

Yea well before that, Nick was pushing Braulio in the cage. I guess Dana approached him and even said thanks for not pushing back and escalating it. Funny that Kron would hide behind the Diaz brothers and talk smack. Its funny because when Nick was being interviewed, Braulio approached Kron and they clasped hands and seemingly had a nice word. Then they go in the lockerroom and Kron has something to say with the Diaz's there? lol.

Ah, I see. Braulio's a bit of a stareffer though, all the BJJ stuff and history with NIck aside. Nick just lost the biggest fight of his career and he's not a cheery guy anyway... so you go try to shake his hand? All I know is that if I'm walking around in a cage/backstage after a Diaz loss, I'm not going to bother looking in his direction.

[REDDzone]

IDK what stareffer means, but if everyone from GSPs corner shakes Nick's hand, and you shake everyone from Nick's corners hands, could not shaking his hand be considered disrespect there? I see what you are saying, but I honestly doubt Braulio thought of it that way, he says he was trying to show sportsmanship and I believe him, although maybe that is naive when it comes to the 209, bro.

[SDM]

Starfugger. Oh, I didn't know Braulio was in GSP's corner. That changes things.

[REDDzone]

Yea idk I was confused too. I thought he was with the Blackzilians for some reason.

[REDDzone]

More mmahour: Did Arlovski really say he heard Rumble is at 245? Seriously, how amazing would it be if Rumble came in looking like Green Mile Guy and dwarfed Andrei?

[cowboyronnie]

IDK what stareffer means, but if everyone from GSPs corner shakes Nick's hand, and you shake everyone from Nick's corners hands, could not shaking his hand be considered disrespect there? I see what you are saying, but I honestly doubt Braulio thought of it that way, he says he was trying to show sportsmanship and I believe him, although maybe that is naive when it comes to the 209, bro.

[REDDzone]

Ariel is really giving wsof some hype. Good to see. TBH I feel like he just takes subtle shots at bellator all the time for whatever reason. Suprising, but nice. I think he has a good relationship with Sefo.