Monroe's role on the 2004 team?

[Goldtop]

The 2004 team always seemed to be patterned after the bad boys to me - ie Ben was similar to Rodman, Sheed similar to Laimbeer, both had best backcourts in the league, defense-first, tremendous depth, etc

So if they follow that blueprint building this new team, and pattern it after the 2004 team, what would Monroe's role be? For example, Drummond would obviously fill Big Ben's role of defensive anchor. But who's role would Monroe fill?

I used to think it was Sheed at PF, but they really play nothing alike. Sheed was a premier defender and shooter, who rarely liked to play inside. Monroe is the complete opposite - poor defender and shooter, who only likes to play inside.

To me, if Monroe was on that '04 team, he would've come off the bench in the "Corliss" role. His game compares a lot more favorably to Corliss than Sheed. Which makes me think his best role on this team might be off the bench in that same role, as someone who can come in and score in the low post when the starters jumpshots aren't going. But who's liability on defense prevents them from starting.

What do you think, can Monroe become Sheed, or is he best as 6th man off the bench (looking longterm as a championship team)?

[MrBigShot]

Realistically: Somewhere in between.

I still see him as a starter long-term, and wont throw the notion away until we get a good chance to see him and Dre play for an extended period of time.

[Cowology]

Kinda like MrBigShot said, there isn't any 1 for 1 comparison to be had here. He may play more like Corliss, but he's obviously a starter. So maybe that "Sheed" type is the one coming off your bench in the Dice/Soup/Buddha role.

[mercury]

Not many comparables with 2004... if you go back to the previous ship he would play a Buddha Edwards role.

[BadMofoPimp]

Human Victory Cigar!

[Dirtgrain]

Not many comparables with 2004... if you go back to the previous ship he would play a Buddha Edwards role.

Yep. Unfortunately, he reminds me of Buddha--but without to turnaround jumper (but maybe with a better shooting percentage).

Monroe's height takes him from Corliss role to starter on most teams--but he could not beat out Rasheed Wallace to make the starting line-up on the championship team.

[Snakebites]

Corliss Williamson was the best post player on that team.

Our point guard did more to post up than our starting bigs combined at times. The comparison isn't there.

Monroe would have made one heck of a third big on that team, though.

[Goldtop]

Corliss Williamson was the best post player on that team.

Our point guard did more to post up than our starting bigs combined at times. The comparison isn't there.

Monroe would have made one heck of a third big on that team, though.

I don't follow. You say Corliss was the best post player on that team, but then say the comparison to Monroe isn't there?

Isn't Monroe the best post player on this team?

I agree Corliss was the best on the 04 team, which is why I think its a valid comparison. Corliss could never start on a contender because of his problems defensively. Which looks like could be the case with Monroe too as well.

But the point of this thread was not so much about comparing players, as much as its about making sure we are putting these new players in their proper roles. Thats really what its all about. We all assume Monroe is a starter because he puts up 16/10, but realistically he's not starting on any contender with that kind of defense. So I'm starting to see him as a 6th man backup longterm. I don't know if he would accept that role, but if he wants to win I really think our best chance is getting a defensive big to pair with Drummond and form another dominating defensive frontcourt. Thats what works for this franchise. Anytime we try to win with anything other than defense, it doesn't work.

Monroe doesn't have to be Corliss, but just play that role off the bench, where he's less of a liability on defense. I don't know that I see Monroe as a starting big man on championship team, but I could definitely see him as backup big on a true contender.

[rmfc]

Human Victory Cigar!

[Dirtgrain]

I do believe that Monroe has the potential to improve his defense. At times, it seems like he cares, anyway. If the team were winning, I wonder if he would step up his defense (not that this would indicate great things about his work ethic).

[Snakebites]

Corliss Williamson was the best post player on that team.

Our point guard did more to post up than our starting bigs combined at times. The comparison isn't there.

Monroe would have made one heck of a third big on that team, though.

I don't follow. You say Corliss was the best post player on that team, but then say the comparison to Monroe isn't there?

Isn't Monroe the best post player on this team?

In what other ways was Corliss similar to Monroe? I guess he also was poor defensively, but he was also a black hole non-passer (anti Monroe) who didn't even have the occasional range Monroe had.

My point was our teams had absolutely no post playing big men back then, and our best post players were a small forward and a point guard.

[srt4b]

Corliss Williamson was the best post player on that team.

Loved that Corliss wedge defense. Wonder what that dude is up to these days. One of may favorite guys from that team.

[Cowology]

Corliss Williamson was the best post player on that team.

Loved that Corliss wedge defense. Wonder what that dude is up to these days. One of may favorite guys from that team.

Corliss on Shaq was awesome!

Anyway, I disagree that Monroe isn't capable of being a starter on a championship caliber team. He isn't a franchise player, but how many championship teams had All-Stars at all 5 positions? You always have role players and if that is what Moose is he's one heck of a role player. How many teams have 2 dominant defensive bigs honestly? Monroe/Drummond will be just fine. It's our perimeter play that worries me.

Not saying I wouldn't love an Admiral/Duncan or even replay of Sheed/Ben, but the guys we got will be OK up front. Especially if we solidify that rotation with a solid 3rd bigman who can defend.

[Goldtop]

I just think unless we find an offensive superstar somehow, we're probably going to need two dominant defensive bigs to win a championship, by doing it with defense

The problem with Monroe is he doesn't make our offense or defense elite. I think you have to be elite at least 1 side of the ball to be a true contender. So if we could be an elite defense just by adding 1 great defensive big man next to Drummond, in place of Moose, that might be our best route to success.

We don't want to end up like MEM, where we're just really good at both sides, but not great enough at either to carry us to a championship.

Ideally, Drummond will develop into that superstar on offense and become an unstoppable low post beast that we can ride to championships, and defense won't be so necessary. But if he is to be mostly a defensive player, I just think it might be best to go all in on defense and try to build the best one we can, like we did in 04.

With a defensive centerpiece like Drummond to build around, we realistically could build an even better defense than the 04 team. I kinda would like to see that kind of defense again, if possible. But I think Monroe starting is the roadblock that will prevent it from ever reaching that level of greatness.

[Hotmayo]

The 2004 team always seemed to be patterned after the bad boys to me - ie Ben was similar to Rodman, Sheed similar to Laimbeer, both had best backcourts in the league, defense-first, tremendous depth, etc

So if they follow that blueprint building this new team, and pattern it after the 2004 team, what would Monroe's role be? For example, Drummond would obviously fill Big Ben's role of defensive anchor. But who's role would Monroe fill?

I used to think it was Sheed at PF, but they really play nothing alike. Sheed was a premier defender and shooter, who rarely liked to play inside. Monroe is the complete opposite - poor defender and shooter, who only likes to play inside.

To me, if Monroe was on that '04 team, he would've come off the bench in the "Corliss" role. His game compares a lot more favorably to Corliss than Sheed. Which makes me think his best role on this team might be off the bench in that same role, as someone who can come in and score in the low post when the starters jumpshots aren't going. But who's liability on defense prevents them from starting.

What do you think, can Monroe become Sheed, or is he best as 6th man off the bench (looking longterm as a championship team)?

Monroe would be a bench player on the 2004 team. Also, I like your comparison to greg and Corliss they really are similar in terms of how they play the game. Eerie. The only difference is gregs height which allows him to start. I agree with you and I think that greg is better suited off the bench if the pistons want to be a championship contending team bc he is a defensive liability.

[ComboGuardCity]

Title Contenders in the NBA:
1. Miami Heat
2. OKC Thunder
3. Spurs

Let Moose start at 4/5 on any of those teams and they're better for it.

Chalmers
Wade
Lebron
Bosh
Moose

Westbrook
Thabo/Martin
Durant
Ibaka
Moose

Parker
Green/Ginobli
Leonard
Moose
Duncan

...and he's 22.

[Goldtop]

^ I don't think Monroe would start on MIA. They are a defense first team and couldn't be a great defense with a Bosh/Monroe frontcourt, imo.

He may start on OKC/SA, but I don't think either of those teams would win a championship with him and his defense right now. Which goes back to my initial point that he's not a starter on a championship team - as is now at least, with his current defense.

[ComboGuardCity]

They won a championship starting Battier as their stretch 4.