Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0

[hands11]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... rder_by=ws

Dare to compare. This is Wall up against 16 other PGs.

Sort by the column of your choice.

DRtg 1st
BLK% 1st
AST% 4th
STL% 5th
TRB% 6th
PER 6th
TS% 11th
TOV% 14th
ORtg 14th
eFG 16th

MP 16th at 31 minutes

Per 36
AST/36 4th
PTS 4th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... rder_by=ws

He stacks up pretty well.

Clearly the best defensive PG.

And he ranks really well for assists and points as well. Top grouping.

He just has to keep raising his scoring and shooting efficiency and he would he right up there at the top across the board as the most complete PG.

Right now, the best of the best are Parker and Paul. Then Westbrook.

Wall just has to keep this more efficient shooting up and he will keep climbing the charts

[tontoz]

Kyrie Irving made the All-Star game but he didn't make your list of 16.

[nate33]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2013&year_max=2013&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=Y&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=30&c2stat=ast_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=6.5&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

Dare to compare. This is Wall up against 16 other PGs.

Sort by the column of your choice.

DRtg 1st
BLK% 1st
AST% 4th
STL% 5th
TRB% 6th
PER 6th
TS% 11th
TOV% 14th
ORtg 14th
eFG 16th

MP 16th at 31 minutes

Per 36
AST/36 4th
PTS 4th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... rder_by=ws

He stacks up pretty well.

Clearly the best defensive PG.

And he ranks really well for assists and points as well. Top grouping.

He just has to keep raising his scoring and shooting efficiency and he would he right up there at the top across the board as the most complete PG.

Right now, the best of the best are Parker and Paul. Then Westbrook.

Wall just has to keep this more efficient shooting up and he will keep climbing the charts

You can't just gloss over those efficiency stats: eFG% TOV% and ORtg as if they're just one small portion of his impact. Efficiency is pretty much the most important thing on offense. A high point total or a high assist total in the face of worst-of-the-group efficiency numbers is a really bad thing. It basically undermines any benefit gained from those points and assist numbers.

You can subdivide those numbers into as many separate categories as you want, but the way I read it, Wall is among the best of the group at defense, and among the very worst on offense.

(This is only a criticism of the argument presented, not of Wall's overall potential. The Wall of the past two weeks is certainly a much better offensive player and if his recent production can be maintained, then Wall is clearly a top notch PG at both ends of the court.)

[hands11]

TOV% 14th
ORtg 14th
eFG 16th

I didn't do what you said at all. I didn't gloss over anything. I posted the numbers and the links to the data.

I said he was a top defender and that if he keep up his better shooting, he numbers would raise and he could get closer to the top of that list across the board.

Your comments were the same as mine. Criticism of the argument I presented ?

Maybe you had a bad day or something. Your post makes zero sense.

[nate33]

TOV% 14th
ORtg 14th
eFG 16th

I didn't do what you said at all. I didn't gloss over anything. I posted the numbers and the links to the data.

I said he was a top defender and that if he keep up his better shooting, he numbers would raise and he could get closer to the top of that list across the board.

Your comments were the same as mine. Criticism of the argument I presented ?

Maybe you had a bad day or something. Your post makes zero sense.

Sorry hands11, I came across a bit more harsh than I meant.

You said "he stacks up pretty well" and then followed up by saying "he just has to keep raising his scoring and shooting efficiency". By using the term "just" it came across (to me, at least) that he's almost there and it's just a minor improvement is necessary. If you didn't mean it that way, then fine. That's just how I read it. No worries.

[payitforward]

^^
Hey what's with this peace-making stuff? I think you two are in total disagreement and should be having a really big fight about it!

C'mon -- get at it!

[hands11]

TOV% 14th
ORtg 14th
eFG 16th

I didn't do what you said at all. I didn't gloss over anything. I posted the numbers and the links to the data.

I said he was a top defender and that if he keep up his better shooting, he numbers would raise and he could get closer to the top of that list across the board.

Your comments were the same as mine. Criticism of the argument I presented ?

Maybe you had a bad day or something. Your post makes zero sense.

Sorry hands11, I came across a bit more harsh than I meant.

You said "he stacks up pretty well" and then followed up by saying "he just has to keep raising his scoring and shooting efficiency". By using the term "just" it came across (to me, at least) that he's almost there and it's just a minor improvement is necessary. If you didn't mean it that way, then fine. That's just how I read it. No worries.

Ahh, I get how you read what I wrote now. Yeah, you gave those words more power then I intended them to have.

That said. In some areas, he is excelling. Namely on the defensive side. He deserves recognition for that. That has value also. His assist numbers are also near the top of that top group.

As for the scoring. I posted recently that while nearing .450% is nice improvement for the year, if he isn't going to be hitting the 3 ball, he needs to be closer to .500% over the year to be considered a top scorer. Or he has to be TS .595 % That what Parker does.

The good news... He has been doing that recently. He is shooting .522 for March.

BUT

Its a small sample.
It was against teams that aren't good. March has been the easiest stretch of games all year.

So questions remain. But there is reason to be hopeful. His shoot hasn't just been falling out of luck. His form. His release point. They have looked better. And turnovers. He has to keep them down.

Now he has to keep up the more efficient scoring.

The point I made at the end of my post was the same you made.... If he can. When you add that to his superior defensive numbers...

Where does that put him ? The answer to that is hard for me to accept right now given how poorly and inefficient he has played on offense for to long... But the answer to that question is a undeniable truth.

He would be one of the best PG in the league...

But that is a big "IF" He has to show he can score like this against better teams and over a longer period.

For me.... As of right now... I'm feeling more hopeful he can do it. I think he can get there. It might not be this light switch that just went on recently. There probably while be relapses. But right now I am hopeful he has taken another step. What worries me is Beal not being out there while it is happening.

[DCZards]

this light switch that just went on recently. There probably while be relapses. But right now I am hopeful he has taken another step. What worries me is Beal not being out there while it is happening.

I wouldn't worry about the fact that Beal isn't out there with Wall. We know what Beal can do and we're seeing what an in shape, healthy and focused Wall can do. What matters most is that Wall and Beal get plenty of time to work on their games together in the offseason and, hopefully, that they're both healthy at the beginning of next season.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Washington Wizards ‏@WashWizards
Wall is 1st player in 3-pt era to avg at least 24p/11a/5r/2st, shoot at least .600 from field, .800 from 3-pt & .857 from FT in 4 game span.

This Wall can change the future of the Wizard franchise.

[Nivek]

Holy arbitrary cutoffs Batman! I wonder how many guys posted the same kind of numbers while shooting .856 from the FT line. Or .734.

[Dark Faze]

I'm just excited that he's returning to the mentality that he did in year 1 with this "light switch". He shot the 3 ball with confidence and ended at .30 on the year, which is okay for a non shooter. I thought he took an absolute step back in year 2 by not working on his defiencies.

In year 3 we're finally seeing development again. The first 10 game span he wasn't shooting but was playing slower and a much better half court game. Then he played like year 2 for a while. Now he went back again to playing slow while adding a confident jumpshot to it.

Like I said, I start to panic when guys don't show development, and now that we're seeing it I'm comfortable with Wall as a player going forward.

I'm still not sold in Wittman. I'd like to see a great development coach and a whole new staff on the roster going forward.

[DCZards]

In year 3 we're finally seeing development again. The first 10 game span he wasn't shooting but was playing slower and a much better half court game. Then he played like year 2 for a while. Now he went back again to playing slow while adding a confident jumpshot to it.

Like I said, I start to panic when guys don't show development, and now that we're seeing it I'm comfortable with Wall as a player going forward.

I'm still not sold in Wittman. I'd like to see a great development coach and a whole new staff on the roster going forward.

As you say, Wall is developing/improving and John himself as publicly credited Wittman and Cassell for his improvement. Sounds to me like Witt and his staff are at least decent at player development...as least as it relates to Wall.

[GhostsOfGil]

In year 3 we're finally seeing development again. The first 10 game span he wasn't shooting but was playing slower and a much better half court game. Then he played like year 2 for a while. Now he went back again to playing slow while adding a confident jumpshot to it.

Like I said, I start to panic when guys don't show development, and now that we're seeing it I'm comfortable with Wall as a player going forward.

I'm still not sold in Wittman. I'd like to see a great development coach and a whole new staff on the roster going forward.

As you say, Wall is developing/improving and John himself as publicly credited Wittman and Cassell for his improvement. Sounds to me like Witt and his staff are at least decent at player development...as least as it relates to Wall.

I'm split. Wall really started to excel last year when Witman took over. As did KS.. but this year, we've seen major regression from... pretty much everyone (sans Wall)

[DCZards]

I'm split. Wall really started to excel last year when Witman took over. As did KS.. but this year, we've seen major regression from... pretty much everyone (sans Wall)

Ves, Singleton and Seraphin (to some degree) absolutely seem to have regressed this year. The verdict is out on Booker in that regard, IMO. On the other hand, Webster is having a career year, Okafor and Ariza have been very good most nights, Price has been solid for a guy that hasn't played much the last couple of years, and Temple is playing decently for a developmental league guy.

[tontoz]

I think part of Seraphin's problem is that this year other teams actually game plan for him. Last year he was a nobody and started scoring out of nowhere. He rarely got doubled so he could just back down and take his little jump hook without much interference.

This year teams double him a lot and it has clearly thrown him off. Sometimes he would force up a shot too quickly or turn it over. I also think this is the reason he has been more inclined to shoot jumpers this year. It is something he has had to adjust too in addition to learning how to play in general.

How many bench players get doubled as often as KS?

[dobrojim]

Washington Wizards ‏@WashWizards
Wall is 1st player in 3-pt era to avg at least 24p/11a/5r/2st, shoot at least .600 from field, .800 from 3-pt & .857 from FT in 4 game span.

This Wall can change the future of the Wizard franchise.

A wise man said something to the effect that this Wall is one you pay
a max contract to and do so with a huge smile on your face.

[queridiculo]

How many bench players get doubled as often as KS?

It's a copycat league. Teams will continue to attack that weakness until Seraphin can consistently demonstrate that he can handle them.

He's been doing a better job moving the ball the past few games, let's see if he can keep it up.

[dlts20]

anyone have the e*pn insider article of Wall

[tontoz]

anyone have the e*pn insider article of Wall

Are we even allowed to post entire insider articles? I am not sure. Here is part of it..

Wall's injury history is a double whammy: We don't know too much about him and he's wagering his future on it. What we do know is that Wall is projected to have a 14.3 WARP (wins above replacement player) over his first three seasons. According to extension research by fellow Per Diem maven Kevin Pelton, 14.3 WARP translates to a first-year extension salary of about $9.6 million, about $1.2 million lower than Lawson's starting salary and about in the middle between Holiday's $9.2 million sum and Curry's $9.9 million. Most importantly, $9.6 million is well short of the max.



This makes sense. From a basketball standpoint, Wall is the anti-Curry. Wall could slice through metal when he entered the league, but his glaring weakness still remains: He can't shoot. The former Kentucky Wildcat has fewer 3-point makes than Pau Gasol this season (look it up) and his effective field goal percentage on jump shots is a putrid 38 percent, according to Basketball-Reference.com, the same as Austin Rivers. This, after missing a stunning 39 of 42 heaves from downtown last season. Not a good thing in today's NBA.



But the Wizards might feel compelled to give him the max anyway. Remember, after a similarly strong finish to Andrea Bargnani's third season, the Toronto Raptors foolishly gave their underachieving former No. 1 overall pick a whopping five-year, $50 million contract extension with a starting salary that was $4.6 million higher than what his production warranted. Given how much time, effort and mental energy teams invest in their top picks, Wall might well receive a similar top-pick bonus. And Bargnani is a prime candidate for the amnesty guillotine this summer.



The Wizards will need to weigh whether to give Wall, whose career-best numbers are those of an average point guard, the designated-player exemption. Or they could save it for 19-year-old rookie Bradley Beal, who has shown promise at a much shallower position, the 2-guard. Furthermore, the Wizards could hold the exemption for their 2013 draft pick.

Will Wall receive the golden designated-player exemption? He might. But he doesn't deserve it based on his track record and what his peers have garnered. The very real risk is that he becomes Washington's version of Bargnani. Or worse yet, Gilbert Arenas reincarnated.

[hands11]

Pretty weak review if you ask me. Thats what I call a hack job.

I'm not saying Wall deserves max but I just posted his numbers against the top 16 PGs.

He is at the top of the class as a defender and assist player. He doesn't mention his strengths. He only focuses on shooting.

Wall has been improving his shooting. Now he has to do it over a longer period and against better teams. He also have to improve his TOs. But we know that and he has shown progress in both.

That said, his PER is ranked 6th of the top 16 PG. His TS% is 11th. Thats not great but it doesn't such either. Its his eFG% that is dead last against those 16 and that is all about his 3 ball. He is 2nd to last in 3 ball % against those other 16 players. Guess who is last. Rondo.

The Rondo comparison has been made many times regarding Wall and I think that is pretty accurate. Only Wall isn't hated by his team like Rondo is. Wall has a better TS then Rondo but worse at eFG% .

Wall is .454 eFG
Rondo is .497

Rondo make 12M next year. Then 13M and he is 27. Wall is still only 22.

So for Wall, its all about getting to a FG% and an eFG% up about .500% and TS% in the .550% range.
Right now, he isn't a 3 ball shooter so he needs to be really efficient with his 2 ball and FTs.

The good news for Wall is that he has been shooting .522 FG% for March.

Tonight against the Lakers should be a good test.