Marquis Teague: Green Shoots

BuffaloBull · Post #1 » by **BuffaloBull** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:06 pm

I was bored, and looking through our team data, when I found some data points that are encouraging for our young rookie.

Now there is a lot Teague needs to work on: he can't shoot, especially from three, he turns the ball over too much, and often looks like he doesn't know what he's doing. His overall on/off paints the picture of a nonentity: the team is a +.6 when he is on the floor (100.3 O /99.7 D on, 103.5 O / 102.9 off). But given that, I want to point out a few green shoots that jumped out at me from the data.

1) He's a good defensive rebounder for a guard
When Marquis is in, the defensive rebounding bumps up 2.2 points to 74.5%. He's also averaging 3.6 defensive boards per 36, which is better than Kirk, Nate and Belli.

2) Teague's lineup data is very interesting
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/teaguma01/lineups/2013/

What jumped out at me was the two-person lineup data. Teague shows very high +/- data with all 3 of our main bigs: Taj +9.1 pts, Noah +8.6, and even Boozer, usually a +/- disaster, at +5.4. Likewise, Marquis has had his worst data with the three players on the roster that look the most useless on first glance: Nazr (-6.7) Vlad (-14.6) and Cook (-23!).

Now the caveat of small sample size applies to all of this data: Teague's only played 382 minutes this year. But given that he has so much he needs to work on, especially offensively, it's encouraging that he's been able to tread water, to the point of coming out slightly ahead at +.6, in terms of plus minus. Couple that with the fact that he is playing at his best with the team's best bigs, and it gives me hope that he will follow in his brother's footsteps and become a player in this league.

If he can make a huge push this summer, and become more confident in his own offense, he could end up being a pretty good player for this team. He's an intrinsic + athlete, but hasn't shown it as much as you would hope his rookie year because the game seems to be coming so fast at him.

Ralphb07 · Post #2 » by **Ralphb07** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:17 pm

Nice read. I like him and think he has done okay. He will put in the needed work. From all accounts he is a hard worker. Also we have a good staff, so as long as he stays in Chicago and works with them, he will improve. With Kirk being so fragile, Teague has a very good chance getting consistent and good minutes next year.

holv03 · Post #3 » by **holv03** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:39 pm

Teague is a solid defender he just needs to be more aggressive and confident on his offensive game. I think he could turn out to be a good player but he is needs to trust him self more.

Mech Engineer · Post #4 » by **Mech Engineer** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:44 pm

If Teague has the confidence of a JL3 or Nate, he can be more successful.

DJHill · Post #5 » by **DJHill** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:59 pm

The confidence will come, he's only 19. I think people here have been a bit too hard on him considering that. His ceiling here, at least while Rose is here, is backup PG. I think he can reach that at least.

bledredwine · Post #6 » by **bledredwine** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:08 pm

Yeah, he's the textbook rookie.

He'll be a completely different player in 3 years, IMO.

BuffaloBull · Post #7 » by **BuffaloBull** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:15 pm

Yeah, we've sorta taken good PG play for granted here, with the Kirk/Duhon combo, who were really solid defensively during the Skiles years, and then Rose.

I think Thibs is really hard on his PGs, from a schematic standpoint. There are very specific things he wants them to do, and be responsible for, on both ends. With the personnel we've had since Thib's has been coaching, especially offensively there is a lot of offball movement that the 1 has to coordinate. It's a lot like being a quarterback in the NFL.

And Marquis has very much had a rookie season. The game is coming at him really fast, and he doesn't have his jumper down, or proven NBA moves in his quiver, so for the most part he is not risking things, deferring to his teammates, and just passing the ball onto the next guy. Thibs seems to trust him more on defense at this point, so I wouldn't be surprised if his in-game goals and assignments are mostly directed at that end. Play d at the point, get out in transition if you can, and move the ball on offense.

But if he can flip the switch, it should make things very interesting next season, especially if Derrick comes back as an improved shooter, as he says he will. Doses of Teague and Rose on the floor together would make for a very fast backcourt when Thibs wants to match small with small.

Ralphb07 · Post #8 » by **Ralphb07** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:51 pm

Remember Gar talking about getting a PG like Flynn in that draft to pair Rose with at times. Well I think that's exactly what they see with Teague. Now of course he needs to get better, but you could definitely run Teague/Rose for doses down the road and it could work. That can make things difficult for teams closing games out too.

League Circles · Post #9 » by **League Circles** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:57 pm

I've never really understood the appeal of playing Rose off ball. He's not really gonna thrive catching and shooting, and I don't see a defensive advantage...

I'm not high on Teague, but I admit his frame is decent, and he has naturally damn near elite quickness and handles. His shot is one of the worst I've ever seen though. Everything about it is foul. It looks like the shot of a 14 year old scrub. I'm genuinely a much better shooter.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if Teague turns it around and becomes a player. Until then or his contact comes up, I'm not penciling him in for anything better than a 3rd PG.

Mr Funk · Post #10 » by **Mr Funk** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:02 pm

I kind of agree with Gar. I'd prefer having Teague playing off the ball with Rose running the point.

With his athleticism and speed, Teague should no doubt be excellent cutting and can already penetrate (but still struggles at finishing). With Rose's passing and Teague's speed, there should be a lot of easy buckets there.

Post #11 » by **Ice Man** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:04 pm

Good stuff.

I have no idea how to read Teague, it's like trying to figure out if a 12-month old Bordeaux will be good. He came out too early and is not yet an NBA player. He should be playing in the NCAA tournament right now. Yes, Kentucky is only in the NIT this year -- but it probably would be in the NCAAs if it had Teague!

It's useful to run Rose off the ball here and there. Not for jump shots, but he's does make good back cuts to the rim, which of course he's very good at finishing.

Ralphb07 · Post #12 » by **Ralphb07** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:04 pm

Gar Paxdorf wrote:I've never really understood the appeal of playing Rose off ball. He's not really gonna thrive catching and shooting, and I don't see a defensive advantage...

I'm not high on Teague, but I admit his frame is decent, and he has naturally damn near elite quickness and handles. His shot is one of the worst I've ever seen though. Everything about it is foul. It looks like the shot of a 14 year old scrub. I'm genuinely a much better shooter.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if Teague turns it around and becomes a player. Until then or his contact comes up, I'm not penciling him in for anything better than a 3rd PG.

The advantage of playing Rose off ball in spurts is to give teams a different look and also give Rose a break. No one is saying Rose should be a two guard but if Derrick plays 38 a night and you can get him 8-10 minutes of not having to bring the ball up and run the offense, it could really help.

Teague will be good, kid is young and does have a lot to learn, but I think by year 3, we're going to have a player.

BuffaloBull · Post #13 » by **BuffaloBull** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:09 pm

Yeah, I'm not saying Rose off ball is a preferred look, but if he's improved enough as a spot up shooter to really do damage, you can buy Rose some on-court "rest" playing with Teague by giving Teague the ball to run the initial pick and roll, or the iso set that triggers the rest of the motion. And defensively, you can throw Rose on the weaker guard and have Teague go hard at the primary handler.

But I'm talking 2, 3 minute sets. Thibs hates to go small most all of the time.

League Circles · Post #14 » by **League Circles** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:10 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:The advantage of playing Rose off ball in spurts is to give teams a different look and also give Rose a break. No one is saying Rose should be a two guard but if Derrick plays 38 a night and you can get him 8-10 minutes of not having to bring the ball up and run the offense, it could really help.

Teague will be good, kid is young and does have a lot to learn, but I think by year 3, we're going to have a player.

I hear the idea, I just don't really know what use Rose is if he doesn't have the ball. I mean lots of SGs can bring the ball up fine. Rose isn't like MJ where he's a post up threat or will draw a double team without the ball. His whole appeal is having the ball. I guess I can see some transition benefit (them each having another really fast guy to pass to in the open court). But in the half court, if the goal is to get Rose to sort of not go all out on some possessions, I'd rather do that by a new SG taking over, or among the current guys - running some offense through any of Noah, Boozer, Deng, Nate, Marco, or maybe even Jimmy, while still having a SG with size on the floor for defense.

JohnnyKILLroy · Post #15 » by **JohnnyKILLroy** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:33 pm

He's 20yrs old already. He's peaked already and he's destined for boozer like Bumness.

patryk7754 · Post #16 » by **patryk7754** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:37 pm

The problem with Teague is that he's learning how to play NBA PG from Nate

donaldtrump_00 · Post #17 » by **donaldtrump_00** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:47 pm

I really hope he turns out well down the road. he has the skills to be a good player and his brother is already good so its should be natural for him to follow his footsteps. jeff was bad his first year also and didn't get a chance so maybe the same pattern follows course seeing that hinrich is playing for us and will prob be injured and marquis does the same as his bro and takes the spot. if marquis turns out to be better then jeff then rose can switch over to the 2 a lot more and solve that sg prob. I think this summer if they find a worthwhile trade for deng and boozer they should do it. and I always been against trading boozer but he seems stuck on 15 and 9. but Teague im hoping he turns out good

Action Paxson · Post #18 » by **Action Paxson** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:50 pm

Good post OP. I have never wavered in my support for Teague. He's going to be a very nice player for a late 1st rounder. In year 3 and 4 I can really see him putting a lot of pressure on other teams off the bench. He is so quick, and once the game slows down for him he'll be just as good as his brother. Him and Rose playing together 5-7 minutes a game would be an interesting look.

He has the trade value of a 2nd rounder right now, but give it 2 years and he will be a really nice asset.

frosty23 · Post #19 » by **frosty23** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:09 am

Teague is garbage. He can't shoot, or dribble, or run an offense, and gets burnt repeatedly on defense. I watched him get an eight second violation in the GSW game. If that's not a red-flag, idk what is. Oh yeah, also some Bazemore guy dropped like 12 points on him in that quarter lol. There are so many good back up point guards in the league that he will be lucky to be in the NBA in five years. People need to get over the fact that he is not his brother, they look a little alike and that's about it. If he turns out really good, feel free to put this as a sig mocking me about how I was wrong about Marquis Teague. Highly doubt that happens. The Bulls should trade him with our pick to move up in this years draft to get some one who can contribute right away.

Post #20 » by **Rerisen** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:58 am

He has to learn how to shoot, that's pretty much the long and short of it. Being fast isn't enough, and I don't think he will ever be a great finisher. Though he can improve a bit like Brandon Jennings did there.

And once he did/does learn to shoot, suddenly that speed will become a way bigger asset when players can't play 5-7 feet off him anymore.

But Teague doesn't have any standout skills to get by in this league if he can't shoot. He doesn't pass like Rondo. He doesn't defend like a young Hinrich, etc.