I have lost confidence in this organization

[countrybama24]

Dennis linsdy has an enormous track record of success,

Do you actually know his track record? Because "being part of the spurs" isn't a track record of success in a GM role. You have no idea what his role was in the organization and what exactly his influence was.

Trading for the sake of making a trade is not going to benefit the franchise.

Cap space for the sake of cap space isn't going to make us a contender either. But it does help the bottom line. If the front office wasn't willing to take on salary to get a good asset giving up Paul or Al, what makes you think that cap space will be any more valuable when we don't have Paul or Al to include in a trade? Or do you think we'll sign a great free agent, but need all $30M in space to do so?

I listened to Lindsey's interview, he just kept reiterating we have lots of flexibility. But if their priority is flexibility, why would they ever use that cap space to take on a bad deal? It seems like they'll only use it for free agents and extensions, which won't get us anywhere near the same value as Paul or Al deal that took on a bad salary to get a very good asset. If you read the Grantland article, or heard his interview, it sure sounds like there were lots of potential deals out there that we weren't even considering and just kept stonewalling offers. No evidence points to the front office working hard to find the best deal out there for Al or Paul, we just kinda let people call us and kept turning them down.

This is all rumor, but all the evidence we have doesn't exactly rule out some very legitimate criticisms of our rebuilding strategy. Yes, we don't know how they'll use the cap space this summer, or next year, but there's always "next year" for the front office to prove themselves. In the meantime, I haven't been impressed.

[slcjosh]

Rebuild? Really? Looks to me like they are trying to ride the mediocrity train all the way to another first round spanking, just to be able to say they made the playoffs.

If they were seriously trying to rebuild one of Big Al or Milsap would already be gone, or at least riding the pine while the young studs get a chance to prove what they can do.

This off season will be the biggest for me as a fan, It is put up or shut up time. Show me that you really are about more than a first round asswhoopin. Show me that you really do want to maybe just maybe have a chance at winning it all.
If they show that they are content to be a so so 8th seed then I'm done. All I want to see is a commitment to try and be a championship contender. I never doubted that with Larry and Jerry, not so sure about things with Greg and Ty.

There you go again, bringing up the trade bs. "BUT WE COULDA TRADED FOR BLEDSOE!!!!" no, we actually coudnt. if there was a good deal to make, it would have been made. Dennis linsdy has an enormous track record of success, and KOC is one of the most respected GM's in recent nba history. you really think he just didnt try hard enough? you really think they just mailed it in? If a good deal that benefit the organization came along, they would have made it.

Now if you paid attention, did some research and listened to the interviews of Dennis and KOC after the deadline they explained themselves. The long term plan for the franchise is to utilize as much cap space as possible to compete with the new CBA. The new CBA if used properly can be a huge asset to the franchise, and most the deals that were proposed to the jazz for al or paul were going to require the jazz take on some form of a long term deal for a player the jazz had no interest in. Trading for the sake of making a trade is not going to benefit the franchise. Sorry if it makes some of you cancel your cable, or stop listening, or go root for the lakers or whatever. The jazz orginization is not concerned with your short term displeasure. They are concerned in whats best for the franchise.

I have my criticisms and frustrations as a fan too, but im sure as **** not going to "lose faith" or quit on my team. shame one you if thats how you feel. I heard the Heat are pretty good, they could always use some more bandwagon fans.

Oh stop it, I have probably been following this team longer than you have been alive. I have lived and died with them since they moved to Utard.
Being upset with the philosophy, direction, approach this team is taking has nothing to do with how loyal a fan you are, so you can take the heat comment and have it for lunch.

This team has proven over a couple decades that it IS the model of mediocrity. I WANT MORE THAN THAT!
I want to know that the front office isn't just settling for mediocrity, The proof is in the pudding, we are once again right smack in the middle of mediocrity.

Look what one really bad season did for the spurs. 14 straight seasons of 50+ wins and 4 titles.

If this team was really looking to be a championship contender, and that is the number one priority, we would have seen movement with a couple players ( Ya I get your argument about the right deal not being there) OR the young guys would be playing and growing together while the search for the missing piece/ pieces continues. What is the point of riding the black hole to another first round whoopin? Why? It really is simple Being a championship contender isn't the top priority.

I don't give one hoot who has won what in the past 30 years, that is water under the bridge. I don't really even care if they never win a title in my lifetime as long as they are trying to do so.

being pretty good, and just making the playoffs and hoping that maybe lady luck will give us a big fat kiss and we can make a serious run is a load of crap. I could easily live with a 10-25 win season if that is what it takes to get to the top. For this team to get there they are going to have to find THE guy in the draft. Drafting outside the lotto every year because your just pretty good is a lot like running on a tread mill, Run like hell and don't get anywhere. They gotta sit these mediocre vets and run with the young guys, they gotta take a risk, be bold, make stuff happen.

As a fan I respect that, and it makes things a lot more interesting, Makes it more fun to talk about.
This team right now and the last few years is boring, and mediocre, Lord knows I have spent enough $$$ and time on this team to have the right to call a spade a spade.

Youre barking up the wrong tree. Everyone wants their team to achieve MORE. be realistic. youre old enough to know better if youve been following as long as you have. Take a look at any team that was successful. They had some success, cool. where have they been the last 15 years? utah had its run in the 90s. cool. closest we've come back from that is the WCF. whens the last time chicago graced us with their presence in the nba finals? 98? Its not realistic to think you are going to compete at all levels at all times. it took the jazz 10 years to get to the 97 and 98 teams. draft picks. trades. development. The jazz tried it again and had some success in the playoffs with the Deron Willimas era. When they realized he was a goner no matter what, they had to do something so they made the trade. They are still in the process of building, it doesnt happen over night.

[slcjosh]

Dennis linsdy has an enormous track record of success,

Do you actually know his track record? Because "being part of the spurs" isn't a track record of success in a GM role. You have no idea what his role was in the organization and what exactly his influence was.

Trading for the sake of making a trade is not going to benefit the franchise.

Cap space for the sake of cap space isn't going to make us a contender either. But it does help the bottom line. If the front office wasn't willing to take on salary to get a good asset giving up Paul or Al, what makes you think that cap space will be any more valuable when we don't have Paul or Al to include in a trade? Or do you think we'll sign a great free agent, but need all $30M in space to do so?

I listened to Lindsey's interview, he just kept reiterating we have lots of flexibility. But if their priority is flexibility, why would they ever use that cap space to take on a bad deal? It seems like they'll only use it for free agents and extensions, which won't get us anywhere near the same value as Paul or Al deal that took on a bad salary to get a very good asset. If you read the Grantland article, or heard his interview, it sure sounds like there were lots of potential deals out there that we weren't even considering and just kept stonewalling offers. No evidence points to the front office working hard to find the best deal out there for Al or Paul, we just kinda let people call us and kept turning them down.

This is all rumor, but all the evidence we have doesn't exactly rule out some very legitimate criticisms of our rebuilding strategy. Yes, we don't know how they'll use the cap space this summer, or next year, but there's always "next year" for the front office to prove themselves. In the meantime, I haven't been impressed.

I never said the cap space WOULD make us a contender. i said if used properly it can be a huge asset. But what was really available on the trade market to do anything with? Not one single all star was available, not one single star player was traded. The biggest name that was moved was JJ Reddick or Rudy Gay. neither matter because neither of those guys presence would make any borderline team or mediocre team a "contender". The smart play is to play the cap space game. even if you have to carry it over to the next season, where much more big name and big talent free agents will be looking for new homes. Its a long game, you cant expect such drastic change in such short time periods.

[countrybama24]

I never said the cap space WOULD make us a contender. i said if used properly it can be a huge asset. But what was really available on the trade market to do anything with? Not one single all star was available, not one single star player was traded. The biggest name that was moved was JJ Reddick or Rudy Gay. neither matter because neither of those guys presence would make any borderline team or mediocre team a "contender".

I never mentioned the trade deadline. My argument is about the entire rebuilding strategy. I was only responding to the claim that they did their best to find the best possible deal for Al or Paul, and no one was offering anything. My argument is that we are overvaluing the cap space those two, together, would give us and undervaluing a solid lottery pick or young player we liked.

The smart play is to play the cap space game. even if you have to carry it over to the next season, where much more big name and big talent free agents will be looking for new homes. Its a long game, you cant expect such drastic change in such short time periods.

We should play the cap space game. We'll have $30M+ this offseason, and $30M+ next offseason because Favors' and Hayward's extensions don't kick in until the following year. I think it would have been prudent to trade one of Paul or Al for a semi-bad contract and take on a lottery pick or good young player. I have a hard time believing nothing like that was available, given the returns other GMs have gotten with less valuable assets.

Taking on one bad contract (say,$10M or less) would still let us a sign a max player (or one slightly less than max and one other). The upside of the free agents who we sign is much lower than the returns from a good pick or player on a rookie contract playing somewhere else. Those picks / players are also easy to pair with our pick, or another asset, to move up in the draft. Free agent signings, in Utah, are not as valuable from a trading perspective, because we can only overpay restricted free agents or win a bidding war for a free agent (who generally don't want to play in Utah). That's all. I think the front office is generally great, but I think there is a legitimate criticism of their ('do nothing") trading strategy so far.

[RyanStorm]

Our picks have done nicely for us, even our 2nd rounders are bad...the only problem is we have one of our second rounders as leading PG and the other PF. Evans will turn into a great bench, I just hope we can turn are new pick's into new awesome bench and fill in the starters.

[idajazz]

Dennis linsdy has an enormous track record of success,

Do you actually know his track record? Because "being part of the spurs" isn't a track record of success in a GM role. You have no idea what his role was in the organization and what exactly his influence was.

Trading for the sake of making a trade is not going to benefit the franchise.

Cap space for the sake of cap space isn't going to make us a contender either. But it does help the bottom line. If the front office wasn't willing to take on salary to get a good asset giving up Paul or Al, what makes you think that cap space will be any more valuable when we don't have Paul or Al to include in a trade? Or do you think we'll sign a great free agent, but need all $30M in space to do so?

I listened to Lindsey's interview, he just kept reiterating we have lots of flexibility. But if their priority is flexibility, why would they ever use that cap space to take on a bad deal? It seems like they'll only use it for free agents and extensions, which won't get us anywhere near the same value as Paul or Al deal that took on a bad salary to get a very good asset. If you read the Grantland article, or heard his interview, it sure sounds like there were lots of potential deals out there that we weren't even considering and just kept stonewalling offers. No evidence points to the front office working hard to find the best deal out there for Al or Paul, we just kinda let people call us and kept turning them down.

This is all rumor, but all the evidence we have doesn't exactly rule out some very legitimate criticisms of our rebuilding strategy. Yes, we don't know how they'll use the cap space this summer, or next year, but there's always "next year" for the front office to prove themselves. In the meantime, I haven't been impressed.

I never said the cap space WOULD make us a contender. i said if used properly it can be a huge asset. But what was really available on the trade market to do anything with? Not one single all star was available, not one single star player was traded. The biggest name that was moved was JJ Reddick or Rudy Gay. neither matter because neither of those guys presence would make any borderline team or mediocre team a "contender". The smart play is to play the cap space game. even if you have to carry it over to the next season, where much more big name and big talent free agents will be looking for new homes. Its a long game, you cant expect such drastic change in such short time periods.

OK, lets put all the trade/cap space stuff aside for a bit.

Just explain why they continue to ride these mediocre vets?

I don't think anybody including the front office would argue that the Young guys are the future. Why not roll with them and as you very astutely pointed out develop them. If in the process you end up getting a better draft position, great. I don't see the point of trying to get a first round ass whoopin? All that does is set us back. I guess it makes a few more $$ for the Millers.

[StocktonShorts]

I really recommend you listen to the latest Lindsey interview with Spence Checketts and Gordon Monson.

Of all the "media personalities" in this market I find I agree with Spence more than anyone else when it comes to the Jazz and the NBA.

http://1280thezone.com/index.php/audio/ ... l_manager6

The more I listen to Lindsey the more I like him; I'm cautiously optimistic. This is also the second straight interview where he's praised Jeff Van Gundy for something. I would not at all be surprised if we make a run at convincing JVG to return to coaching.

[idajazz]

well hmmm, That was.............. well kinda informative?? nothing there that we all didn't already know. I would like a straight answer as to why the young guys ride the pine so much.

[MeestR]

the thing is, it's not just what is happening these last few weeks.

lindsey seems like he wants to put his stamp on this team, but he has had several missed opportunities. rigby seems like he only cares/knows about advertising dollars. corbin is acting like a high school coach with his politics and haters gonna hate type talk. even locke, the voice of the team, is acting like a guy just trying to keep a job, instead of just doing it. only the millers seem to want to win. but they are so invested in their other ventures that the jazz seem to get just minimum attention and get delegated out. that is a only a good formula to make money.

what this team is doing this season is the same thing they did last season. this is a redundant season. since 1999, this team has had 1 lucky run deep into the playoffs. and that can be mostly blamed for avery not being as smart as nelson. the rest of the time, 4th seed was about our ceiling. 4th seeds aren't expected outside the 2nd round, and are often out in the first.

seriously, this team has had its goals on simply making the playoffs for far too long. i am interested to see what lindsey does with this team, but i am not very confident in it. i am not confident in corbin's coaching. i am not confident in the players willingness to win. and i am not confident in the upper management actually finding ways to succeed.

and i HATE that the jazz are so far behind the nuggets despite having been in similar circumstances and similar rebuilds.

[kebutah]

Part of the reason we are behind the Nuggets is they have George Carl and we have Tyrone Corbin.

[StocktonShorts]

The Nuggets traded for more mature assets than the Jazz did. That and they have a legitimate coach.

[jman2585]

I only skimmed some of the posts here, because they reek of irrationality. Your front office is effectively brand new, you just hired DL as your GM, a guy who is from the most successful franchise in basketball. And you're giving up aleady? If that's how you think, you're not really fans. What are you even complaining about? Give the man a few years at least.

[The59Sound]

I only skimmed some of the posts here, because they reek of irrationality. Your front office is effectively brand new, you just hired DL as your GM, a guy who is from the most successful franchise in basketball. And you're giving up aleady? If that's how you think, you're not really fans. What are you even complaining about? Give the man a few years at least.

Speak not of what you know nothing about. Kevin O'Connor, who has been for about FOURTEEN YEARS, still runs the front office. Tyrone Corbin, who many are taking issue with, is not a brand new coach. You can disagree that they're performing badly, but to say there's no track record to judge them on is asinine and inaccurate.

Move along.

[jman2585]

You're looking at it all wrong, KOC may still be there, but DL is there now too, and when you bring in a new guy as GM he gets influence too, and that gradually decreases your own influence. It's something you can see when you observe a number of front offices where there's a big name President and a GM (like Indiana with Bird and Walsh). Already, DL has persuaded the owners to do something they've always resisted before- tank. You need to give DL a chance to change things, rather than giving up before he even gets a chance to begin this.

[Nate505]

Until Ty is gone I've lost all confidence in this organization as well.

[MeestR]

You're looking at it all wrong, KOC may still be there, but DL is there now too, and when you bring in a new guy as GM he gets influence too, and that gradually decreases your own influence. It's something you can see when you observe a number of front offices where there's a big name President and a GM (like Indiana with Bird and Walsh). Already, DL has persuaded the owners to do something they've always resisted before- tank. You need to give DL a chance to change things, rather than giving up before he even gets a chance to begin this.

he has had several chances already this season. if tanking was the goal, then he has done that wrong. the trade deadline went and nothing happened. if winning was the goal, then he has done that wrong. the trade deadline went and nothing happened. if this team was supposed to be good enough to win, then corbin has screwed that up terribly. if not corbin, then it has been the players who has been screwing it up terribly. if this is the case, then well, lindsey is at fault because these players have been on the team for long enough. no reason to be surprised by the character they are showing now.

is it not lindseys fault for the situation he has been put in? i guess you could say that. so let's go higher up. no body is perfect, but these guys aren't even doing their jobs. rigby is blissfully ignorant, trying to sell to advertisers every chance he gets, all the while sounding like a monkey.

the millers are stretched thin between all their enterprises expanding and succeeding. the jazz are getting minimum attention from them. who else can we blame? i am sure whoever else is involved, the suit will fit them too.

this team and organization have been so naive for so many years, it isn't funny anymore. koc took over when? 1999? his track record since then hasn't been stellar.

yes we want to win. and yes, we want to win with good character guys on the team. but grabbing good guys who play mediocre and trying to spin it saying we will improve from within is getting awfully old. like i said in a previous post, cotton candy flavored ice cream doesnt taste very good, even when its topped with whipped cream and sprinkles--which is what the fans have been getting fed from this organization for far too long.

at least legitimate sucky organizations can acknowledge they suck and take steps to improve. this team sucks and is in denial. so we continually get picks in the teens and let our FA's walk, only to show us up on other teams. someone else (cant remember who. sorry.) said it in another thread so i'll say it again here, "mediocrity sucks, but it's the wrong kind of suck."

[Hoops Addict]

The ORG will prove themselves this summer.

Players play.,.....orgs run it.

They had better do right this summer
1. do not resign Jefferson for a big contract.
2. dont overpay for Milsap.
3. only resign who is needed. no Mo Williams, Jeff, etc
4. draft well- take BPA, if not PG make sure we sign Collinson.
we have lots of cap room.....don't waste it.

[Dry Fly]

The problem as I see it basically comes down to one thing... playing vets and sitting rooks. We have been patient as fans and have supported the team and the strategy but we all know the conservative history of this franchise and the over conservative repetitive grind has finally reached a breaking point.

We have a young core that plays basketball with a passion. They play with heart and play loose. We as fans want to see this win or lose. We know that the young guys will make bonehead plays and stupid mistakes from time to time but they will learn from it. They are ready. They have been ready for a while. Set them loose.

[jman2585]

The idea is to tank next year, when there are really good players in the lotto, not this year when the pickings are slim. This year might as well try and do well, and build up your nest egg for the bad year next year. Remember when the Jazz did that one year (getting a profit over $20mill) so they could afford to spend more the next few years?