The OFFICIAL rookie impressions thread pt.III

Hendrix · Post #1241 » by **Hendrix** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:47 am

dpnim wrote:Hendrix,

A rookie season does not make the Player. All that Jsun947 says is that they had comparable "rookie seasons". That's all.

Except they didn't have comparable rookie seasons. Seriously, the list includes Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Allen Iverson. He faired well in raw PPG #'s, and if you sort for that he will be on a list with guys like that. But that doesn't mean he had a comparable rookie season to them.

Seriously, I'm pretty suprised by the responses I'm getting here because I like Lillard as a player, and think he's the ROY, etc... But, it's like if someone isn't willing to put him up there with the all time greats you're going to get a bunch of Blazers fans jumping all over you.

There is a grey area between being a historic/all time/ record breaking rookie, and being crap. Just because someone doesn't think he belongs on lists with guys like Jordan, and Iverson does not mean they are bad mouthing him. Is there something wrong with simply thinking a player is very good, but not having an elite rookie year? It doesn't have to be so black and white.

deepeeenn · Post #1242 » by **deepeeenn** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:48 am

Speaking of Lillard breaking records. He's on pace to break Steph Curry's 3pts made by a rookie of 166. He currently is short 9 at 157 but on pace to make 186.9 with 13 games left (2.3 3P/GM)

Jsun947 · Post #1243 » by **Jsun947** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:54 am

That's the nature of statistics. I don't operate on what ifs.

What if Curry played 3 more minutes and didnt average more PPG? You can't assume anyone would do anything extra given the minutes.

And if the worst Lillard would be is Curry don't color me unexcited.

Hendrix · Post #1244 » by **Hendrix** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:55 am

dpnim wrote:I think when you compare Lillard's great rookie season with those other great players rookie season's you are doing him such a disservice. It's obvious that what's so glamourous about the comparisons is that when most people think of Oscar Robertson or Iverson or who ever else, the first thing they think about is their careers. Hardly do people ever think about their rookie seasons alone. That's no ones fault but the person that can misinterpret that as if these averages of Damian's implies that he will have the same effect on the game as they did. As that's yet to have been seen. Who knows? But you can't disregard the raw stats and that he is in good company with them.

Oscar average pretty much a triple double as a rookie. 30.5ppg, 10.1rpb, 9.7 apg. 26 PER.

This isn't about associating it with his career. Oscar simply had an epic rookie season.

deepeeenn · Post #1245 » by **deepeeenn** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:01 am

Hendrix wrote:Except they didn't have comparable rookie seasons. Seriously, the list includes Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Allen Iverson. He faired well in raw PPG #'s, and if you sort for that he will be on a list with guys like that. But that doesn't mean he had a comparable rookie season to them.

But they did, that's all that says. Doesn't mean he will turn out anything like them. All it says it's these other players were the only ones to score more and assist more than Damian as a rookie. Period.

As far as impact goes, maybe not but the raw stats is what is being proposed here. An argument can be made otherwise (and obviously has) but what is being said he is "they all wore Blue", what you are trying to say is the quality, hue, shade or whatever isn't the same. But it's still blue.

Hendrix wrote:Seriously, I'm pretty suprised by the responses I'm getting here because I like Lillard as a player, and think he's the ROY, etc... But, it's like if someone isn't willing to put him up there with the all time greats you're going to get a bunch of Blazers fans jumping all over you.

There is a grey area between being a historic/all time/ record breaking rookie, and being crap. Just because someone doesn't think he belongs on lists with guys like Jordan, and Iverson does not mean they are bad mouthing him. Is there something wrong with simply thinking a player is very good, but not having an elite rookie year? It doesn't have to be so black and white.

As a Blazer fan, I will state what I know about a player I've been watching and following all year. As a reasonable man I look at things from as many perspectives as I can. I don't think Damian will be a superstar, I think he will be very good but not a HOFer, an Allstar? In this PG loaded climate? Maybe but unlikely. But what you are doing, like I've stated before is doing him a disservice by downplaying his stats because the careers of the company he's associate with here. Because these other players have been established in their careers as superstars, you assume people will generally think that's what he's going to be. What I know is, for a rookie it's impressive.

Shem · Post #1246 » by **Shem** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:12 am

thug-lyfe wrote:
Shem wrote:
DeBlazerRiddem wrote:It makes sense to compare Lillard to other rookies, at his same position, in his same era. I don't know the logic behind what Hendrix is saying.

It's just another attempt to derail Lillard again in order to make their rookie look better. People are still bitter about how Lillard is going to win the ROY.

I agree with this all the way. These people think their rookie is better than Lillard when it's not. I don't know if it's something but any person can clearly see that Lillard has the ROY locked up. Attempting to make other rookies look better won't help the case.

Please just give up and say that Lillard is ROY.

Oh, they're saying it. They'd be stupid not to say it, especially when we're at a point in the season where it's pretty much locked in. But they still have an agenda and use passive aggressive remarks in their quest to derail his rookie season to make themselves feel better about their bitter jealousy. Meanwhile they pretend like they're being an unbiased fan about it. The thing is I'm not buying it.

Post #1247 » by **mopper8** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:17 am

dpnim wrote:
Hendrix wrote:Except they didn't have comparable rookie seasons. Seriously, the list includes Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Allen Iverson. He faired well in raw PPG #'s, and if you sort for that he will be on a list with guys like that. But that doesn't mean he had a comparable rookie season to them.

But they did, that's all that says. Doesn't mean he will turn out anything like them. All it says it's these other players were the only ones to score more and assist more than Damian as a rookie. Period.

That doesn't make them comparable. If only 6 guys averaged 18/6 as rookies, but 5 of them actually averaged 27/6 and one of them averaged 18.5/6, that last guy isn't "comparable." Lillard's seasons isn't comparable (in the sense that it would be "similar") to, e.g., Jordan's or Oscar's. It's not.

Coming from someone who thinks he's having a very nice season and should probably be ROY.

Hendrix · Post #1248 » by **Hendrix** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:28 am

dpnim wrote:
Hendrix wrote:Except they didn't have comparable rookie seasons. Seriously, the list includes Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Allen Iverson. He faired well in raw PPG #'s, and if you sort for that he will be on a list with guys like that. But that doesn't mean he had a comparable rookie season to them.

But they did, that's all that says. Doesn't mean he will turn out anything like them. All it says it's these other players were the only ones to score more and assist more than Damian as a rookie. Period.

As far as impact goes, maybe not but the raw stats is what is being proposed here. An argument can be made otherwise (and obviously has) but what is being said he is "they all wore Blue", what you are trying to say is the quality, hue, shade or whatever isn't the same. But it's still blue.

I have no idea in blue blazes what you are talking about.

Lillard simply did not have a comparable rookie season to Michael frigging Jordan, lol. I can't belive I am even having this conversation that he doesn't belong having his name on short lists with these types of guys.

I can't believe simply saying a player is a very good rookie and ROY is not enough..... It's like a lot of you Blazers fans aren't happy unless people are comparing the kid to Oscar. He's good. But he's simply not that good. It really doesn't make someone a 'hater' to not think he belongs on lists with those types of guys.

Elden Payton · Post #1249 » by **Elden Payton** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:29 am

mopper8 wrote:
dpnim wrote:
Hendrix wrote:Except they didn't have comparable rookie seasons. Seriously, the list includes Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Allen Iverson. He faired well in raw PPG #'s, and if you sort for that he will be on a list with guys like that. But that doesn't mean he had a comparable rookie season to them.

But they did, that's all that says. Doesn't mean he will turn out anything like them. All it says it's these other players were the only ones to score more and assist more than Damian as a rookie. Period.

That doesn't make them comparable. If only 6 guys averaged 18/6 as rookies, but 5 of them actually averaged 27/6 and one of them averaged 18.5/6, that last guy isn't "comparable." Lillard's seasons isn't comparable (in the sense that it would be "similar") to, e.g., Jordan's or Oscar's. It's not.

Coming from someone who thinks he's having a very nice season and should probably be ROY.

QFT.

Trying to say that Lillard is having a rookie season in the same conversation with MJ, Big O and Lebron is laughable.

Hendrix · Post #1250 » by **Hendrix** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:31 am

Shem wrote:
thug-lyfe wrote:
Shem wrote:It's just another attempt to derail Lillard again in order to make their rookie look better. People are still bitter about how Lillard is going to win the ROY.

I agree with this all the way. These people think their rookie is better than Lillard when it's not. I don't know if it's something but any person can clearly see that Lillard has the ROY locked up. Attempting to make other rookies look better won't help the case.

Please just give up and say that Lillard is ROY.

Oh, they're saying it. They'd be stupid not to say it, especially when we're at a point in the season where it's pretty much locked in. But they still have an agenda and use passive aggressive remarks in their quest to derail his rookie season to make themselves feel better about their bitter jealousy. Meanwhile they pretend like they're being an unbiased fan about it. The thing is I'm not buying it.

You take this stuff way too seriously if this is what you think. I mean, my God, this is all sorts of crazy.

King d · Post #1251 » by **King d** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:41 am

Sik Infant wrote:QFT.

Trying to say that Lillard is having a rookie season in the same conversation with MJ, Big O and Lebron is laughable.

Lebron's rookie season- 20.9 ppg 5.5 rpg 5.9 asst 41% FG 18.3 PER

Lillard's rookie season - 19.1 ppg 3.2 rpg 6.5 asst 43% FG 16.8 PER

Don't see anything "laughable" about comparing their rookie season stats

Ridian · Post #1252 » by **Ridian** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:58 am

King d wrote:
Sik Infant wrote:QFT.

Trying to say that Lillard is having a rookie season in the same conversation with MJ, Big O and Lebron is laughable.

Lebron's rookie season- 20.9 ppg 5.5 rpg 5.9 asst 41% FG 18.3 PER

Lillard's rookie season - 19.1 ppg 3.2 rpg 6.5 asst 43% FG 16.8 PER

Don't see anything "laughable" about comparing their rookie season stats

How about perennial All-star Tyreke Evans and his rookie season for comparisons sake?

Cro_Ruption · Post #1253 » by **Cro_Ruption** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:59 am

King d wrote:
Sik Infant wrote:QFT.

Trying to say that Lillard is having a rookie season in the same conversation with MJ, Big O and Lebron is laughable.

Lebron's rookie season- 20.9 ppg 5.5 rpg 5.9 asst 41% FG 18.3 PER

Lillard's rookie season - 19.1 ppg 3.2 rpg 6.5 asst 43% FG 16.8 PER

Don't see anything "laughable" about comparing their rookie season stats

Les be real

Lebron was a 17 yr old kid coming out of HS playing a mans game

Lillard is a 22 year old fully grown adult with 4 years of college experience, non the less at a small school, but still.

fishnc · Post #1254 » by **fishnc** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:06 am

I can't wait for this thread to go away. Can't anybody just enjoy watching the players play anymore? Post some videos and shut the f*ck up.

Shem · Post #1255 » by **Shem** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:06 am

Cro_Ruption wrote:
King d wrote:
Sik Infant wrote:QFT.

Trying to say that Lillard is having a rookie season in the same conversation with MJ, Big O and Lebron is laughable.

Lebron's rookie season- 20.9 ppg 5.5 rpg 5.9 asst 41% FG 18.3 PER

Lillard's rookie season - 19.1 ppg 3.2 rpg 6.5 asst 43% FG 16.8 PER

Don't see anything "laughable" about comparing their rookie season stats

Les be real

Lebron was a 17 yr old kid coming out of HS playing a mans game

Lillard is a 22 year old fully grown adult with 4 years of college experience, non the less at a small school, but still.

I love it when people exaggerate to make a point. LeBron was 19 when he was the ROY award. Nice try!

King d · Post #1256 » by **King d** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:07 am

Cro_Ruption wrote:
King d wrote:
Sik Infant wrote:QFT.

Trying to say that Lillard is having a rookie season in the same conversation with MJ, Big O and Lebron is laughable.

Lebron's rookie season- 20.9 ppg 5.5 rpg 5.9 asst 41% FG 18.3 PER

Lillard's rookie season - 19.1 ppg 3.2 rpg 6.5 asst 43% FG 16.8 PER

Don't see anything "laughable" about comparing their rookie season stats

Les be real

Lebron was a 17 yr old kid coming out of HS playing a mans game

Lillard is a 22 year old fully grown adult with 4 years of college experience, non the less at a small school, but still.

Everybody knows that, but doesn't change anything about what I said. People think comparing rookie stats equals to player 1 automatically going to be the same or better than player 2. Nobody is saying that (basically because no one knows for sure)

And as shem said Lebron wasn't 17 years old lmao.

Shem · Post #1257 » by **Shem** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:07 am

Hendrix wrote:
Shem wrote:Oh, they're saying it. They'd be stupid not to say it, especially when we're at a point in the season where it's pretty much locked in. But they still have an agenda and use passive aggressive remarks in their quest to derail his rookie season to make themselves feel better about their bitter jealousy. Meanwhile they pretend like they're being an unbiased fan about it. The thing is I'm not buying it.

You take this stuff way too seriously if this is what you think. I mean, my God, this is all sorts of crazy.

You're doing it. So what does that make you?

Hendrix · Post #1258 » by **Hendrix** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:11 am

Shem wrote:
Hendrix wrote:
Shem wrote:Oh, they're saying it. They'd be stupid not to say it, especially when we're at a point in the season where it's pretty much locked in. But they still have an agenda and use passive aggressive remarks in their quest to derail his rookie season to make themselves feel better about their bitter jealousy. Meanwhile they pretend like they're being an unbiased fan about it. The thing is I'm not buying it.

You take this stuff way too seriously if this is what you think. I mean, my God, this is all sorts of crazy.

You're doing it. So what does that make you?

I'm doing what? not putting him on the same list as Jordan, and Oscar?

My goodness, i must be pure evil.

Post #1259 » by **mopper8** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:17 am

I don't have any biases in this convo: my team doesn't have a rookie at all, and I have no emotional attachment to any of the big or small name rookies, as I don't really care about college ball, and the team I sorta/kinda root for, the University of Miami, doesn't have any rookies either.

Reading through these last few pages, I don't see any evidence that Hendrix (or anyone else) has some agenda against Lillard or is consumed by bitterness/jealousy or anything like that. I do see some posters giving some pushback against what seemed to my eyes to be a little over-exuberance by Blazers fans with their talented rookie.

As for the Lebron comparison, I actually think from an objective standpoint, Lillard's season is "comparable" to Lebron's (unlike the rookie seasons of guys like MJ and Oscar). But Lebron didn't have some all-time great rookie season, and Lillard's season is still at best Lebron-lite.

People weren't excited about Lebron's rookie season because it was an all-time great one. They were excited because it was maybe the best rookie season for a preps-to-pros player ever, and he was a 6'8 athletic freak playing point guard. Lillard, obviously, doesn't have that unique size + youth + athleticism combo that got people so excited about Lebron. Were he 6'7 and only 19/20 and could jump through the roof and putting up these numbers, people would view the season differently.

orangeparka · Post #1260 » by **orangeparka** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:23 am

mopper8 wrote:I don't have any biases in this convo: my team doesn't have a rookie at all, and I have no emotional attachment to any of the big or small name rookies, as I don't really care about college ball, and the team I sorta/kinda root for, the University of Miami, doesn't have any rookies either.

Reading through these last few pages, I don't see any evidence that Hendrix (or anyone else) has some agenda against Lillard or is consumed by bitterness/jealousy or anything like that. I do see some posters giving some pushback against what seemed to my eyes to be a little over-exuberance by Blazers fans with their talented rookie.

As for the Lebron comparison, I actually think from an objective standpoint, Lillard's season is "comparable" to Lebron's (unlike the rookie seasons of guys like MJ and Oscar). But Lebron didn't have some all-time great rookie season, and Lillard's season is still at best Lebron-lite.

People weren't excited about Lebron's rookie season because it was an all-time great one. They were excited because it was maybe the best rookie season for a preps-to-pros player ever, and he was a 6'8 athletic freak playing point guard. Lillard, obviously, doesn't have that unique size + youth + athleticism combo that got people so excited about Lebron. Were he 6'7 and only 19/20 and could jump through the roof and putting up these numbers, people would view the season differently.

QFT man. Seriously I follow this thread a lot because I love reading bout rookies and stuff, but Lillard's all-defense team has made it quite unreadable.