Around the nba part 6

[j4remi]

But what Thugger is saying which I agree with is Riley has built the team according to the competition they have to face... and given a different scenario or if the team had been dropped in a different era he's capable enough and smart enough of a GM to just move a piece here or there and tool the team with a Center.

I don't have any problem with saying "If Riley wanted he could get them a Center" or saying "if they had a Center they could compete with anybody" but I do have an issue with pretending that this team could somehow compete with teams that would literally need no strategy outside of "pass the ball to our big man" on the offensive end. The Heat aren't giving up massive numbers to nominal bigs just because they don't try hard. They have no answer for any big and if you want to place them up on the pedestal against the great teams of all time...you have to acknowledge that the Shaq's, Kareem's and Wilt's...even the Mchale's would be demolishing them inside.

You just have to figure this... is there going to be a team from 2010-2019 that is going to be better than this Heat team that isn't just another version of this Heat team in a different season in the future?

I can completely agree with you there. They're the best team of this era and barring something incredible, this is likely the best team we'll see in this era, but it bothers me that they're being christened all-time wonders after one title and a regular season streak. The Kobe-Shaq Lakers didn't get this fan-fare...but they're all-time value was defined when they demolished everyone in the playoffs. The Jordan Bulls ran off three in a row each. The Magic and Bird teams dominated a decade. But you're going to convince that this team could run with them off of a regular season streak!? Maybe the Houston Rockets 22 game win streak has colored me skeptical, but I don't grant GOAT status that easily.

P.S. note the you's in this post are rhetorical and not at YOU specifically ibraheim.

[ibraheim718]

I'm willing to let it just play out remi... if they breeze to another championship.. back to back then I'm going to have to put them around the 8-10 range from team that I've seen. But back to Clyde.. he's seen a lot more basketball than I have so his opinion is valid for guys from his generation.

[j4remi]

I'm willing to let it just play out remi... if they breeze to another championship.. back to back then I'm going to have to put them around the 8-10 range from team that I've seen. But back to Clyde.. he's seen a lot more basketball than I have so his opinion is valid for guys from his generation.

I'm cool with that. Let's see this playoff run and then at least have a better measure for them.

I think for now, it comes down to this with me...take the top 5 teams (if you put them better than the 96 Bulls it's gotta be top 5 imo), and pick out the big weakness you'd exploit in order to win...I have a much harder time with any of those teams than the Heat.

[fdr2012]

Put me in the camp who doesn't think this Heat team is top 5 alltime. Don't think they would stand a chance against the showtime Lakers, 80's Celtics, Bad Boys Pistons, 96 Bulls, Kobe/Shaq Lakers and the 60s Celtics.

I do think they are somewhere in the 5-10 range.

[ctorres]

Though Bosh put up excellent numbers during the first 5 games of the winning streak (23.0 ppg, 65% FG's, 8.6 rpg on 33.6 mpg), he's been struggling since then. For the last 18 games, Bosh is only averaging 13.8 ppg, 49.8% FG's, 5.1 rpg on 32.2 mpg.

Is Bosh now burned out on playing center? 14 and 5 playing that many minutes is a major drop off for him.

[Leaguepass]

Looks like we're going to have to go at least 8-6 (including a W over the Pacers @ MSG) to get the 2nd seed. Won't be easy.

@Boston L (just a gut feeling, hope I'm wrong)
Memphis W(I'm pretty positive we beat them--even with Gasol, Tyson/Martin will be deadly for their frontcourt)
Charlotte W
Boston W
@miami L (with the possibility of a win if SA ends their streak)
@Atlanta
Milwaukee W
@OKC L
Washington W
@Chi
@Cleveland W
Indy W
@Charlotte W
Atlanta W

What are your 8 wins?

I count 9 wins as I'm completely undecided what to make of the Atlanta/Chicago game....a lot depends on whether Rose/Noah etc. play or not etc. I'm extremely confident in beating Memphis---Tyson and Martin are gonna prove deadly for their frontcourt---especially a guy like Randolph will struggle against an athletic defender like Martin and their dribble penetration will be cut off by our bigs. If Melo doesn't have an off night I even believe we'll win by a wide margin---Martin just makes us match up pretty well with them.
After what Indy did to us after the all-star break I'm sure our guys are gonna give 120% effort against them--same could be said for the Bulls game. I even feel like it's possible to win 12 out of the remaining 16 games. This team , IMO, is stronger than the one that finished 18-6 last season(mostly against playoff teams)--and other than the OKC/Miami games we can pretty much win every single game. Heck I wouldn't put it past our team to go 13-3 or even 14-2.

[Tron Carter]

gasol is out with an abdominal tear. boston played them hard at the grindhouse w/o garnett i feel confident about that game.

[Thugger HBC]

gasol is out with an abdominal tear. boston played them hard at the grindhouse w/o garnett i feel confident about that game.

Things seem to be lining up.....

[Leaguepass]

gasol is out with an abdominal tear. boston played them hard at the grindhouse w/o garnett i feel confident about that game.

Things seem to be lining up.....

If both Garnett and Gasol are out in the upcoming games I believe we can take both while keeping Tyson out both games.

[Woodsanity]

The bolded is exactly why they AREN'T a great team. In any other era they'd be abused for that problem and no amount of talent makes up for it. Lebron and Wade could be handfuls, but having no C whatsoever means they lose to any team with size which is just about EVERY elite team in history.

Thats just terrible logic. They don't need a big since bigs in this era suck. You build your team to compete in your era not compete in past eras. The Heat would definitely have a hard time against past teams with real Cs. To be frank Bosh is overrated and the Heat would be better with a real C but nowadays the Centers are mediocre.

Compare the bigs in this generation to the bigs of the 90s.

Brokeback Howard, Marc Gasol, Tyson Chandler, Joakim Noah, old Tim Duncan

vs

Hakeem, Ewing, Shaq, DRob, Alonzo, and much more.

Thats just a huge downgrade in big talent. Anyway past teams would kill the Heat with their bigs but they would also be killed by the 3. Past great teams never dealt with the 3 ball that much. In fact, some teams played when it wasn't even introduced.

[Thugger HBC]

The bolded is exactly why they AREN'T a great team. In any other era they'd be abused for that problem and no amount of talent makes up for it. Lebron and Wade could be handfuls, but having no C whatsoever means they lose to any team with size which is just about EVERY elite team in history.

Thats just terrible logic. They don't need a big since bigs in this era suck. You build your team to compete in your era not compete in past eras. If there were actual bigs in this era I would consider trading Bosh for a real C if I were the Heat. To be honest Bosh has become overrated. He always gets raped and abused by real bigs like Greg Monroe.

Yeah, I'm baffled by that logic as well, as if the Heat wouldn't get a center if playing in an era with dominant ones.

And even back then, the Bulls didn't have a dominant one either, it was by committee in most instances.

Miami's previous championship had Shaq putting up 20 and near 10 at 33 years old, and an older Zo whom was serviceable as a backup.

They'd have a center if they needed one, but this era does not need one.

The only thing i challenge the Heat on is their mental makeup, talent wise that team could compete in any era.

Just imagine the shots in that year when the three point line was pushed up....even Wade would hit 45% during that stretch.

[j4remi]

Thats just terrible logic. They don't need a big since bigs in this era suck. You build your team to compete in your era not compete in past eras. The Heat would definitely have a hard time against past teams with real Cs. To be frank Bosh is overrated and the Heat would be better with a real C but nowadays the Centers are mediocre.

Wait...what's the discussion...are we asking if this team could compete with the best teams of other eras or whether they're the best team of this era? If it's the first question then the logic stands...if it's the second, I've conceded that point repeatedly.

Compare the bigs in this generation to the bigs of the 90s.

Brokeback Howard, Marc Gasol, Tyson Chandler, Joakim Noah, old Tim Duncan

vs

Hakeem, Ewing, Shaq, DRob, Alonzo, and much more.

Thats just a huge downgrade in big talent. Anyway past teams would kill the Heat with their bigs but they would also be killed by the 3. Past great teams never dealt with the 3 ball that much. In fact, some teams played when it wasn't even introduced.

Past teams also played tighter to their man though (granted the rules really made this a bigger requirement). I don't buy that they wouldn't be able to tighten up on the perimeter when their opponents pop shots, but more importantly...the adjustment for those teams would be to move closer to their men on the edge...that's it. The Heat wouldn't have an adjustment for the bigs except to double team which you can't do effectively against those elite teams.

And like I've said over and over, the Heat are nothing without a chip this year...so it's ridiculously premature to put them in a convo with threepeaters when they only have one championship to stand on.

[j4remi]

Put me in the camp who doesn't think this Heat team is top 5 alltime. Don't think they would stand a chance against the showtime Lakers, 80's Celtics, Bad Boys Pistons, 96 Bulls, Kobe/Shaq Lakers and the 60s Celtics.

I do think they are somewhere in the 5-10 range.

They'd probably round it out just based on all the talent on their roster...but you could probably debate the West/Baylor/Wilt Lakers, Parker/Ginobli/Duncan Spurs, Hakeem's Rockets and our own Walt/Pearl/Reed Knicks (though I'd concede that the Heat likely beat our Knicks )

[Pharmcat]

really impressed with riley scouting despite having no picks

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... raft-Picks

wish ny had this sort of involved process back in 08 so they wouldnt have taken a bust like hill

[Knicks_Fan2]

really impressed with riley scouting despite having no picks

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... raft-Picks

wish ny had this sort of involved process back in 08 so they wouldnt have taken a bust like hill

How do you know they didnt?

[NoLayupRule]

interesting game of relevance to us tonight is the NJ/PHX game

I think the Niets take this one but you never know
could give us a little more room in the Atl division

[ezmoney707]

really impressed with riley scouting despite having no picks

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... raft-Picks

wish ny had this sort of involved process back in 08 so they wouldnt have taken a bust like hill

How do you know they didnt?

They actually did but let pharm tell it.

[j4remi]

interesting game of relevance to us tonight is the NJ/PHX game

I think the Niets take this one but you never know
could give us a little more room in the Atl division

I don't think it's gonna be so easy for 'em. Second night of a back to back in the midst of a lengthy road trip. This is one that they could lose if they come out flat. Definitely worth watching and crossing fingers.

[j4remi]

They actually did but let pharm tell it.

I was gonna say this but I really wasn't sure...didn't Walsh hire Warkentien around that time to do college scouting? That'd be good enough for me for sure.

[Pharmcat]

really impressed with riley scouting despite having no picks

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... raft-Picks

wish ny had this sort of involved process back in 08 so they wouldnt have taken a bust like hill

How do you know they didnt?

They actually did but let pharm tell it.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... e-1.433065

that does not sound like a scouting dept that is all on the same page

also why didnt he do as much scouting to get the "feel" needed? I mean what else did NY have going on at that time, its not like they have the POs to get ready for