Losing w/ Pau back in starting lineup: 0-2

[GeneralNash]

Hey ever since Pau came back we cannot win a game. Pau cannot guard for crap even in the paint and that is hurting us early in games...and will always hurt us against young teams. If pau cannot defend or produce offensively he is just dead weight out there...and he is clogging the paint with dwight inside...so kobe or nash cannot go inside and kick it out.

Pau needs to come off the bench.

I think we were successful with Earl Clark for a reason. Now that clarks minutes have been rolled back we lose a good perimeter defender with a good jumpshot.

[Kobean]

I sort of agree, I think its a bit early to blame Pau after just 2 games because there are other guys out there screwing it up for us but Pau isn't a 4 so after this season I expect to see either him or Dwight leave. As far as Clark starting again you're right he's young, he can shoot and he can defend, he was a big reason for alot of the wins we got without Pau.

[LaLa]

Its more of passing the ball to Kobe and isoing. Its sickening that Mike D can't get the guts to tell Kobe to move the ball and actually post up Dwight consistently. Pretty much our offense is like 06, give it to Kobe and get the F outta his way.

[kblo247]

Dwight can't post with Pau in the game. He sits a defender in his lap unlike Metta, Jamison, Clark, and hell out newest 4 tonight Kobe. The fact is Dwight can't operate on O so he gets in a damn funk when Pau starts next to him. He gets turnover prone, he starts rushing and making offensive fouls, then he gets hacked and misses, and it screws with his head on D. Paus a worse jump shooter than Metta, take that into account and you get why you can't start him at the 4 and not expect to have Dwight stripped or Kobe/Nsh trapped by the pick and roll, and no amount of lobs will cover that

Likewise Nsh and Pau can't start together at the 1 and the 4, its like waving a sign up that says pick and roll me to death or run at me in semi transition for cross matches. Nash has been fine this year starting with Pau or Deight at C but not both and he's looked horrible on D these two games with those 2 starting together because the help sucks unlike having Kobe, Metta, and Clark for better recovery on help.

Bench Pau ... Even Dennis Scott and Brent Barry said it at halftime, Pau had to be benched for this team to regain its chemistry and identity that got it into the playoffs in the first place, none of which featured a twin towers

[cHeLiosat]

Hey ever since Pau came back we cannot win a game.

are u serious ? 2 games and already a pau-hate thread ? unbelievable

it might be true that pau is better off the bench, but srsly these 2 losses got nothing to do with pau coming back.

if the entire team plays like sh*t and kobes taking too many shots, then u cant win. its that easy.

[loveshaq786]

Pau has to.understand that he is killing the spacing, at the very least he can no longer play the 4 effeiciently. He has to play 5 off the bench and come in as a force. If we can have him.committ to 6th man. We will be a force in the playoffs, otherwise we are doomed. Also, earl Clark doesn't have any confidence when he doesn't start.... He dissappeared. Shoot if Pau would be happy coming off the bench with meeks, Blake and jamison. We will have such a strong rotation

[kobe808lak]

Pau won't accept his role coming off the bench...

We are such a terrible defensive team with him playing the 4 with Nash in there at the 1... just awful defense.

I don't understand the offensive system either... does Kobe only have the go ahead to shoot anymore? We don't utilize the bigs offensively at all.

[Kilroy]

I think Kobe shooting and isoing may be part of MDA's plan to try to get Pau/Dwight to work...

He said spacing would be the key and the only person that can create on the perimeter is Kobe. The rest are spot shooters.

Pau can't defend 4s, he has to be the 5 on D... But Dwight's better against physical players.

I still think the problem is that Pau and Dwight aren't on the same page. I think Dwight is done adapting to playing with the Lakers and doesn't want any more adjustments. I think Pau knows how to make it work, but he's just not the kind of personality that's going to demand attention especially from Dwight.

To be honest, even when Kobe/Nash/Dwight was working, it wasn't as impressive as I'd hoped. It still seems like we're a collection of stars, not a team. But the fact that Dwight and Pau can't coexist is just really disappointing to me. My interest level in the Lakers has dwindled this year to it's lowest point in a long time.

It's not the losses either, it's the lack of organization and intensity.

Instead of bolstering our team with ring hungry vets, we needed an infusion of youth along with Dwight to help hide Kobe's flaws in the last years of his career.

[mjba]

earl clarke:
if i knew how to screen shot i would post this. Earl Clarke's shot chart:
http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/playe ... 2-2013-REG

i came into this thinking that his jump shot had been a bit off lately. he's pretty good from the elbow, and he's been pretty consistent w his averages from the year from there in the last 30 days (top right @ the link).

i love everything about this guy. brings effort, hustle, rebounding, a bit of ball handling, passing. he's a versatile defender and he makes the right play more often than not. he should be starting, even if Pau/Jamison are going to get 30 minutes a night.

the post:
Dwight can't really post anyway. just going by the eye test, unless he's really got it going, he's terrible from outside 5ft. the shot chart confirms this:
http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/playe ... 2-2013-REG

so if he doesn't get deep position, the best idea would be to use him as a decoy. if dwight gets deep position, feed him. whatever the situation.

from the eye test, the ball sticks - this is the crux of the problem w offense, and the defense, maybe, indirectly - when the guys off the ball stop moving. Dwight included. I know it looks like it's kobe a lot of the time (a lot of the time it is him calling iso, ha), but when the pick and roll stops and the screens/guys moving on the perimeter stop, our best play is for kobe to go to the basket and try to make something happen.

i know Mike has all this stuff, and i'm sure he's using it too. you kind of get the feeling from watching him in the interviews recently that he doesn't always get what he wants out there haha.

Pau:
i know a lot of ppl - myself included - have been calling for Pau to play back-up C. i don't ever really want to see him on the floor w Dwight. i guess for match-ups, maybe. in saying that, i can't think of a team off the top of my head to which that applies. unfortunately, from what i have seen in the last two games, he simply cannot defend at C, even against second units - and our perimeter defenders are not good enough to stop anyone from penetrating. what does that mean? i don't know. he's still tall... i'll give him some time, but he should be working it out form the bench.

Kobe:
ballhog! ha. seriously though, it's actually embarrassing to watch at times. i don't know what goes through his head. everyone is just watching him and he is often completely oblivious. the best we have looked all year in end-of-game situations is with Kobe distributing out of the post. that said, if he's just going to hog it, i wish he would use a screen to take it to the basket. at least the other guys start moving at that point.

i fully expect him to check rus westbrook/tony parker from game 1 minute 1 in the POs. i think he can do it successfully. maybe i'm a homer, but i think we've seen glimpses of it throughout the year and he'll have a little extra on d in the POs - he has been v lazy off the ball in the last couple of games after being pretty diligent around the all star break.

[BEazy]

You talking about Pau? What about Nash when he gets trapped and turns the ball over? That has to be worse than what Pau is doing...

[garcia3]

and we are so damn slow with him on the starting lineup also. We can't have Gasol and D12 playing together out there, its just sickening watching Pau bricking outside shots with his slowmotion release. We are just 1 game ahead of Utah and Dallas, the experimentation time is over. It has been proven throughout the whole season that our current starting lineup doesn't work. The hell if he likes it or not, just bring Pau off the bench and make him the focal point of the offense when he gets to the court, he plays his best when he's not hesitating and wondering if it'd be best for the team to pass it to either Nash or Kobe and let the operate.

But when he's in the game with Howard what we have is a freaking Chris Bosh that can't make open jumpers.....

[mcscotty]

Its more of passing the ball to Kobe and isoing. Its sickening that Mike D can't get the guts to tell Kobe to move the ball and actually post up Dwight consistently. Pretty much our offense is like 06, give it to Kobe and get the F outta his way.

This is a very good assessment. Both Nash and Mike D are guilty of coddling Kobe. You almost have to plug your nose to listen to them fawning over him in the media. They both so desperately want to stay with the team, and they know Kobe's approval goes a long way.

[timdunkit]

earl clarke:
if i knew how to screen shot i would post this. Earl Clarke's shot chart:
http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/playe ... 2-2013-REG

i came into this thinking that his jump shot had been a bit off lately. he's pretty good from the elbow, and he's been pretty consistent w his averages from the year from there in the last 30 days (top right @ the link).

i love everything about this guy. brings effort, hustle, rebounding, a bit of ball handling, passing. he's a versatile defender and he makes the right play more often than not. he should be starting, even if Pau/Jamison are going to get 30 minutes a night.

the post:
Dwight can't really post anyway. just going by the eye test, unless he's really got it going, he's terrible from outside 5ft. the shot chart confirms this:
http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/playe ... 2-2013-REG

so if he doesn't get deep position, the best idea would be to use him as a decoy. if dwight gets deep position, feed him. whatever the situation.

from the eye test, the ball sticks - this is the crux of the problem w offense, and the defense, maybe, indirectly - when the guys off the ball stop moving. Dwight included. I know it looks like it's kobe a lot of the time (a lot of the time it is him calling iso, ha), but when the pick and roll stops and the screens/guys moving on the perimeter stop, our best play is for kobe to go to the basket and try to make something happen.

i know Mike has all this stuff, and i'm sure he's using it too. you kind of get the feeling from watching him in the interviews recently that he doesn't always get what he wants out there haha.

Pau:
i know a lot of ppl - myself included - have been calling for Pau to play back-up C. i don't ever really want to see him on the floor w Dwight. i guess for match-ups, maybe. in saying that, i can't think of a team off the top of my head to which that applies. unfortunately, from what i have seen in the last two games, he simply cannot defend at C, even against second units - and our perimeter defenders are not good enough to stop anyone from penetrating. what does that mean? i don't know. he's still tall... i'll give him some time, but he should be working it out form the bench.

Kobe:
ballhog! ha. seriously though, it's actually embarrassing to watch at times. i don't know what goes through his head. everyone is just watching him and he is often completely oblivious. the best we have looked all year in end-of-game situations is with Kobe distributing out of the post. that said, if he's just going to hog it, i wish he would use a screen to take it to the basket. at least the other guys start moving at that point.

i fully expect him to check rus westbrook/tony parker from game 1 minute 1 in the POs. i think he can do it successfully. maybe i'm a homer, but i think we've seen glimpses of it throughout the year and he'll have a little extra on d in the POs - he has been v lazy off the ball in the last couple of games after being pretty diligent around the all star break.

I agree with a lot of the points.

One of the issues I have right now is that the offense is exclusively run through Kobe. As great as Kobe is, he's not great at managing a game (till its closing team, where the only option is him in his books). This is where Nash needs to step in and take control of the ball and balance it out.

I also think we need to use Dwight more. He should never be allowed to post up again this season (its clear, that he isn't what he use to be and needs more training time to get back to where he was). As terrible of a free throw shooter he is and as much as he gets fouled, those things help the team because a) it means big men in foul and b) it means free throws for when the other team commits stupid fouls. I believe that the team would be much better with Nash/Kobe/Pau making a concentrated effort to the move the ball and try to feed Dwight around the rim when he rolls or ducks into the middle of the paint and when those options are taken away take advantage of whatever option the defense leaves open.

Dwight at the rim is our most efficient option (till a few minutes left in the 4th quarter) and the one we should be trying to get instead of trying to always work from the perimeter.

At this point in time, Pau should be coming of the bench. The issue with him in the starting line up is that it becomes too many mouths to feed. Nash has really sacrificed the most out of his game but he finds ways to contribute offensively. With both Pau/Dwight out there, there isn't enough touches to get them going in a rhythm. Too many mouths to feed and its tougher when you have Kobe at the SG position running the show.

Pau coming of the bench allows us to stagger minutes between him and Dwight more and gives the ability to get both going. Ideally, you'd have Clark playing with Gasol a lot and Jamison with Dwight (for defensive reasons). Pau shouldn't be as exposed playing against bench units for majority of the game defensively. Offensively, try to keep Nash with Dwight and Kobe with Gasol. Nash and Dwight with a stretch 4 works nicely and Kobe/Gasol have played with each other for 5 years and have established chemistry. This also allows Nash to be the playmaker on the perimeter, which he doesn't get to do as often as you like because D'antoni insists on playing him and Kobe together.

[One Love]

The BIGGEST issue with the Lakeshow is we are TOO SLOW, period... The reality is Nash (PG), Kobe (SG) & Howard (C) are locked into their positions therefore we need SPEED at the SF & PF positions... Bynum & Gasol didn't work and Howard & Gasol doesn't work either... At this pont in his career, Gasol is a center...Gasol; &Bynum issues were less publicised as Bynum was hirt allot therefore Gasol playerd center more often... In this pffseason, we will need to pursue more athletic forwards to com[lement our core...

On anopther note, where did Meeks shot go... Looks terrible right now...

[HoopsIsLife]

Dwight can't post with Pau in the game.

Dwight can't "post," period.

Seriously, people who talk about going to Howard inside need to go watch some old clips of real offensive big guys like Kareem and Shaq. Dwight Howard has 1/10th the arsenal of moves those types of guys had. And he finds more ways to miss two foot shots than anyone could even imagine. His left hand hook is grade school level and yet he actually goes to it on occasion.

He simply has to buy into being like Bill Russell, not Wilt.

The elephant in the room is that the back injury is only part of the problem. This guy was probably on steroids while in Orlando and it enabled him to kind of muscle up and over guys despite some really "choppy" offense. It gave him that little edge because he was always an undersized Center.

I suspect that he's trying to do the right thing and play "clean" now. He knows the writing is on the wall and some guys might go down hard for being cheaters and he had to clean up immediately.

But the answer to this team winning more is *not* going to Dwight Howard more. That's a recipe for losing. They simply have to get Gasol back into the fold and get him playing as good as he can. If he can't get there, Earl Clark and Jamison will have to step it up as they have shown they can.

[Admiral C]

Starting Pau right away has to be one of the stupidest decisions I've seen all year. Why? Why would you not bring him off the bench at first especially when he couldn't complain about it then because he was injured

Now if he suddenly changes and has him off the bench there's going to be a big hoopla and Gasol will be upset etc etc

[GeneralNash]

The BIGGEST issue with the Lakeshow is we are TOO SLOW, period... The reality is Nash (PG), Kobe (SG) & Howard (C) are locked into their positions therefore we need SPEED at the SF & PF positions... Bynum & Gasol didn't work and Howard & Gasol doesn't work either... At this pont in his career, Gasol is a center...Gasol; &Bynum issues were less publicised as Bynum was hirt allot therefore Gasol playerd center more often... In this pffseason, we will need to pursue more athletic forwards to com[lement our core...

On anopther note, where did Meeks shot go... Looks terrible right now...

Meeks shot goes when spacing goes. With Clark out there instead of pau the team just fit together well. Spacing is a lot better....there are less defensive holes because of clarks energy and defensive versatility. Pau is a snail compared to clark and is too big of a defensive liability.

It is clear as day Clark is more of an asset than pau starting at the 4. I am not sure if kobe is forcing mike to start pau or what....but if the lakers were having their best run without pau...why mess with the rotations? I think making the playoffs is more important than pleasing Pau...who has played at a disappointing level for the last couple of years.

[JohnVancouver]

Seriously, people who talk about going to Howard inside need to go watch some old clips of real offensive big guys like Kareem and Shaq. Dwight Howard has 1/10th the arsenal of moves those types of guys had. And he finds more ways to miss two foot shots than anyone could even imagine. His left hand hook is grade school level and yet he actually goes to it on occasion.

He simply has to buy into being like Bill Russell, not Wilt.



Absolutely - I honestly never watched much Orlando except for Playoffs and I've been shocked at how poor his skills are offensively. I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his bad hands - a back injury really plays hell with reaching for the pass and even grasping it firmly, but g'damn, i haven''t seen this kind of butterfingers play from a center since Earl Barron. I mean, he looks like he's playing with hooks out there ...

[what would jack bauer do?]

I whole heartedly agree with pau coming off the bench. He looks awful on defense. Those bringing up the offense are delusional. We got above 500 playing Kobe ball. Dantoni is a horrible coach and he never had a gameplan to implement in the half court.

Give earl some f****** credit dantoni. He may be young and makes mistakes but he's a far superior defender at every position but center than gasol. Earl has defended every single position pretty good.. Pau needs to stfu and be a team player (like a ginobili) and come off the bench where he can contribute.

[GeneralNash]

Seriously, people who talk about going to Howard inside need to go watch some old clips of real offensive big guys like Kareem and Shaq. Dwight Howard has 1/10th the arsenal of moves those types of guys had. And he finds more ways to miss two foot shots than anyone could even imagine. His left hand hook is grade school level and yet he actually goes to it on occasion.

He simply has to buy into being like Bill Russell, not Wilt.



Absolutely - I honestly never watched much Orlando except for Playoffs and I've been shocked at how poor his skills are offensively. I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his bad hands - a back injury really plays hell with reaching for the pass and even grasping it firmly, but g'damn, i haven''t seen this kind of butterfingers play from a center since Earl Barron. I mean, he looks like he's playing with hooks out there ...

I disagree. The thing is Dwight cannot play with Pau, and Pau is useless at the perimeter. Yes pau might have one good shooting night out of 3-4 games but opposing teams want Pau taking those perimeter shots because they know he has no business taking them. At least Clark would make cuts and has the quickness to get in the paint and make some plays. Pau is reduced to just being a spot up shooter at the 4. It's a waste having him out there starting with Dwight. And then on the defensive end Pau gets murdered as well.