Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0

[Dat2U]

I'm sure conditioning is a huge part of it. Honestly Wall would really no different from any other star that broke out his 3rd year. The problem was missing all of training camp and the first half of the season so he's gotten a bit of late start.

My question is Wall's current numbers do not really represent his play. He's been either below average or the 2nd best player in basketball. Right now the numbers say he's in-between (which is pretty good) but his play hasn't been in-between, just either great or relatively poor. After he played well for 3 games we say no way he'd keep this up. After 5 games we said the same thing. Now were saying the same thing after 10 games he's got a PER of over 30 and were saying he can't keep it up.

So when is the hot streak end? Or does it? Is there a chance that we've really arguably a top 5 player in the game?

[GhostsOfGil]

Witman had some great things to say about Wall last night that relates to what's being discussed here:

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos ... ec17ed0000

[tontoz]

I'm sure conditioning is a huge part of it. Honestly Wall would really no different from any other star that broke out his 3rd year. The problem was missing all of training camp and the first half of the season so he's gotten a bit of late start hear.

My question is Wall's current numbers do not really represent his play. He's been either below average or the 2nd best player in basketball. Right now the numbers say he's in-between (which is pretty good) but his play hasn't been in-between, just either great or relatively poor. After he played well for 3 games we say no way he'd keep this up. After 5 games we said the same thing. Now were saying the same thing after 10 games he's got a PER of over 30 and were saying he can't keep it up.

So when is the hot streak end? Or does it? Is there a chance that we've really arguably a top 5 player in the game?

Yeah i am officially in WTF land right now. I don't know what to expect from him any more.

We all knew that he would be a beast if he could ever learn to shoot. Could he have really fixed his train wreck of a jumper already?

I mean he took 4 three pointers last night. I don't think he has taken that many in a game in his whole career.

[TGW]

Funny how both Wall and Beal had such sudden, dramatic turnarounds in the middle of the season.

In Wall's case I think the answer is simple -- better health. It took time for Wall to get his leg strength, which is critical to shooting well, and conditioning back after being sidelined for almost 4 months. We're seeing a far different Wall now than we saw his first 20 or so games back because he's much healthier...and he's obviously been working on his game. Kudos to Johnny Ballgame.

I agree with this. I think that extra little bit of lift on the jumpshot is getting the ball over the rim, as opposed to a short clank. Alot less airballs and short clanks on the jumpshot lately, and I think it's because of that lift.

[hands11]

The formula for winning is excellent defense (check), excellent shooting to spread the floor (check), an all-nba caliber player (with the way Wall’s currently playing, check).

The two main questions going into next year.

1) Will Wall maintain this excellent level of play?
2) Will Bradley Beal take the next step?

If the answer to those two questions are ‘yes’ than Washington will be a top-5 team in the NBA next year.

This is a compelling argument. We do indeed have an excellent defense and excellent shooting on the wings. Our problem was that the primary engine of our offense (Wall, or, at times, Price) was an inefficient shooter and turnover prone. If you plug in a top 10 player and high-efficiency offensive threat and playmaker into that role, the offense should be at least above-average, and perhaps very good. An above average offense plus an elite defense should be a top 5 team, particularly when playing against East competition.

Of course, it's a little hard to believe that Wall has made such an incredible leap in such a short period of time. The more likely scenario is that he isn't as bad as he looked during that February slump, and he's not as good as he has looked in March. The John Wall of next year will probably be more of a Russell Westbrook good-but-sometimes-frustrating type of PG rather than the Chris Paul/Tony Parker uber-efficient elite PG. It's going to take a while for Wall to be consistent. With that the case, I expect our offense to be modestly below-average next year (say, 15th-20th overall) with our defense being very good (5th or so). That would still put us as a consistent, winning team that should finish in the top 5 in the East, but not quite up there with the actual contenders.

Which is what I have been saying... lol

As for Wall, I'm really not that concerned about him keeping this up. What we see as a sudden light switch going on is actually the result of him putting in a ton of work. By many reports, he worked a lot on his shot over the off-season. And it has been pointed out here many times, Wall with a jumper changes everything for him. Players now have to go over the screen and that opens up all kinds of options. He can drive. He can skip pass. And that means he can be more patient.

He can now slow down and pick his spots. He doesn't have to run by everybody. End to end fast breaks aren't as important anymore. Nor is him being a crash dummy on drives. Have you noticed that ? I have. Wall is not laying on the ground as much anymore. I don't see him taking as many hard falls. I see him drive and land on his feet and them run right back on defense. No crash dummy means a longer healthier career. More options mean less turnover because he isn't forcing things.

I think the Genie is out of the bottle and its not going back in.

[tontoz]

I agree with this. I think that extra little bit of lift on the jumpshot is getting the ball over the rim, as opposed to a short clank. Alot less airballs and short clanks on the jumpshot lately, and I think it's because of that lift.

Earlier in the year most of his misses were long, especially when he pulled up off the dribble.

I dont think it is as simple as conditioning although that surely played a role. He had plenty of lift the last two years and was shooting 30% on jumpers.

[hands11]

I'm sure conditioning is a huge part of it. Honestly Wall would really no different from any other star that broke out his 3rd year. The problem was missing all of training camp and the first half of the season so he's gotten a bit of late start hear.

My question is Wall's current numbers do not really represent his play. He's been either below average or the 2nd best player in basketball. Right now the numbers say he's in-between (which is pretty good) but his play hasn't been in-between, just either great or relatively poor. After he played well for 3 games we say no way he'd keep this up. After 5 games we said the same thing. Now were saying the same thing after 10 games he's got a PER of over 30 and were saying he can't keep it up.

So when is the hot streak end? Or does it? Is there a chance that we've really arguably a top 5 player in the game?

Right. It's just hard for Wizards fans to believe all this is really happening.

They said the same thing when Beal went from historic worst 3 point shooter to one of the best.
And now all the sudden Wall can shoot jumpers ?

That's hard for the average emotionally beaten Wizards fans to catch up with. PIFs brain much be exploding.

Specially when you add in Webster as a top 5 3 ball shooter. And Trevor A and Okafor working out. And Wall knee seeming fine. No amputation.

Just to much good news. Its can't all be true... But it looks like it is.

What's next ? Ves developing hands and a nasty crossover move and he starts nailing 3 balls ?

This is crazy land territory. The Wizards just beat a great defensive top team in MEM and without..

Nene, Webster, Trevor A or Beal. That is 3 starters.

That is crazy land. Not sure many know what to do with this but deny it is happening.

La La La La.... I don't see this.... It can't last. I am a Wizards fan. La La La La

On to the next game. One thing we do know now. Anything can happen with this team. Their ceiling has gotten a lot higher.

[dobrojim]

Highlights from the game.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_I4hhRKVjU[/youtube]

There's a play at the 4:18 mark that struck me. Wall goes left to right off a high screen from Okafor. Okafor's defender has to slide over to stop Wall's penetration, leaving Okafor open for the 15 footer. What's interesting is the play of Mike Conley off the ball. Conley is covering Cartier Martin who is camped out in the left corner. He was easily close enough to shift over to Okafor to prevent the open jump shot. But the problem for Conley is that Wall has gotten so good at the skip pass to the corner that Conley was afraid to leave Cartier Martin. This is where Wall's height at PG has become so effective. He can throw that skip pass on a rope because he has the height to get it off over the defender without much arc. It really helps to spread the floor.

He's been able to get away with it quite often but Dr Naismith says don't jump to pass the ball.

[hands11]

Funny how both Wall and Beal had such sudden, dramatic turnarounds in the middle of the season.

In Wall's case I think the answer is simple -- better health. It took time for Wall to get his leg strength, which is critical to shooting well, and conditioning back after being sidelined for almost 4 months. We're seeing a far different Wall now than we saw his first 20 or so games back because he's much healthier...and he's obviously been working on his game. Kudos to Johnny Ballgame.

I agree with this. I think that extra little bit of lift on the jumpshot is getting the ball over the rim, as opposed to a short clank. Alot less airballs and short clanks on the jumpshot lately, and I think it's because of that lift.

It could be that. For me, I think it is the more consistent release point. Even his 3 ball which is more of a set shot is looking better.

How do we really know how broken his shot was when he never gave it a chance because he released on the way up or on the way down. Mostly on the way down.

For me, that was always he main problem. Release point, not lift. Jumping or not, you need to release at the top of your shooting form.

I think the lift is just allowing him to shoot it with more confidence if a player is closer to him. With lift, he knows he is going to get a clean look so he can release and let it go at the top of his form.

[DCZards]

He's been able to get away with it quite often but Dr Naismith says don't jump to pass the ball.

When Dr. Naismith said that there weren't athletes (like Wall and Lebron) who were capable of stopping on a dime, jumping 4 feet in the air and rifling bullet passes clear to the other side of the court.

[dobrojim]

True Zards, very true.

[DCZards]

So when is the hot streak end? Or does it? Is there a chance that we've really arguably a top 5 player in the game?

I know...it is a little scary isn't it? I find myself almost wishing that Wall has a normal (even bad) game so that all of us can come back to earth a little bit. I've been consistently on the Wall bandwagon, urging patience when he was struggling, but never could I have imagined him blowing up like this....literally overnight.

[Upper Decker]

So when is the hot streak end? Or does it? Is there a chance that we've really arguably a top 5 player in the game?

I know...it is a little scary isn't it? I find myself almost wishing that Wall has a normal (even bad) game so that all of us can come back to earth a little bit. I've been consistently on the Wall bandwagon, urging patience when he was struggling, but never could I have imagined him blowing up like this....literally overnight.

This is what makes Wizards games can't miss events from now until the end of the season.

[tontoz]

So when is the hot streak end? Or does it? Is there a chance that we've really arguably a top 5 player in the game?

I know...it is a little scary isn't it? I find myself almost wishing that Wall has a normal (even bad) game so that all of us can come back to earth a little bit. I've been consistently on the Wall bandwagon, urging patience when he was struggling, but never could I have imagined him blowing up like this....literally overnight.

Just when i was starting to lose faith in Wall he explodes. I had been defending him a lot the previous two seasons but was finding it tough to explain away his poor play last month. He was pretty bad. His play this month is a huge relief.

Obviously Beal/Wall are by a mile the most important players on the team and their sudden blowups certainly bode well for the future.

[Higga]

Wall will come down to Earth a bit of course, but he's a lot closer to being a top 5 player than he is to being a mediocre one. I think next year he'll take that step and become at least an 18/9 guy, with lots of 20/10 games along the way. Everyone was slurping Kyrie Irving but Wall will surpass him next year.

Remember, Derrick Rose won league MVP in his third year. Wall is in his third year, and now finally healthy, so it's not unreasonable to think he can be an MVP caliber player since many regarded Wall to be at least as talented(if not more)when he was drafted(the big difference really being that Rose went to a team that was already pretty solid).

[DCZards]

Remember, Derrick Rose won league MVP in his third year. Wall is in his third year, and now finally healthy, so it's not unreasonable to think he can be an MVP caliber player since many regarded Wall to be at least as talented(if not more)when he was drafted(the big difference really being that Rose went to a team that was already pretty solid).

Last night when Wall was at the free throw line in the second half some fans started chanting "MVP" like you hear sometimes in LA with Kobe. I found it to be a funny moment...maybe someday it will be serious one.

[Nivek]

Remember, Derrick Rose won league MVP in his third year. Wall is in his third year, and now finally healthy, so it's not unreasonable to think he can be an MVP caliber player since many regarded Wall to be at least as talented(if not more)when he was drafted(the big difference really being that Rose went to a team that was already pretty solid).

Leaving aside the issue of whether Rose deserved the MVP that season (in my analysis, Noah was just as valuable to the Bulls -- MVP that season should have been Lebron, Paul or Dwight Howard), this is a good point.

In PPA, Wall's season average is up to 137. Here are some 22-year olds since 1977-78 with scores about the same or lower than Wall:

- Jason Kidd
- Paul George
- Terry Cummings
- Baron Davis
- Penny Hardaway
- Tony Parker
- Steve Francis
- Vince Carter

At 22, James Harden's PPA was 142. Carmelo's was 143. Iverson's was 145.

In March, Wall's PPA is 223. Here's a list of players who had exactly a 223 for a full season (as well as age and year):

- Bill Walton, 25 -- 1977-78 -- league MVP that season
- Chauncey Billups, 31 -- 2007-08 -- 5th best mark in the league
- Magic Johnson, 22 -- 1981-82 -- won championship; 2nd best mark in league behind Dr. J. (Moses won MVP with 3rd best PPA)
- John Stockton, 37 -- 1999-00 -- won Midwest; ousted in 2nd round
- Magic Johnson, 26 -- 1985-86 -- 2nd best PPA that season to Bird (who won MVP and title)

Of course, those guys did it over a full season, not for a month. Still, Wall's play in March has been MVP level.

[dobrojim]

Remember, Derrick Rose won league MVP in his third year. Wall is in his third year, and now finally healthy, so it's not unreasonable to think he can be an MVP caliber player since many regarded Wall to be at least as talented(if not more)when he was drafted(the big difference really being that Rose went to a team that was already pretty solid).

Last night when Wall was at the free throw line in the second half some fans started chanting "MVP" like you hear sometimes in LA with Kobe. I found it to be a funny moment...maybe someday it will be serious one.

raises hand, pleads guilty....yeah I know it wasn't really realistic. But from where we
were sitting, I'm pretty sure John heard it. That's what I think we were after. Just
a few shouts of appreciation.

But it wasn't meant to be funny. Just wanted him to know he's our guy.

[GhostsOfGil]

Wall will come down to Earth a bit of course, but he's a lot closer to being a top 5 player than he is to being a mediocre one. I think next year he'll take that step and become at least an 18/9 guy, with lots of 20/10 games along the way. Everyone was slurping Kyrie Irving but Wall will surpass him next year.

Remember, Derrick Rose won league MVP in his third year. Wall is in his third year, and now finally healthy, so it's not unreasonable to think he can be an MVP caliber player since many regarded Wall to be at least as talented(if not more)when he was drafted(the big difference really being that Rose went to a team that was already pretty solid).

I agree. 19 and 9 seems like realistic numbers for next year. He's already averaging 19.1 and 8.7 per 36. I'm not sure how long he can sustain this level of play... but at least now we know, hes capable of playing like a top 3 pg.

Last night when Wall was at the free throw line in the second half some fans started chanting "MVP" like you hear sometimes in LA with Kobe. I found it to be a funny moment...maybe someday it will be serious one.

That was awesome. First time hearing those chants since Gil was tearing it up. (not counting the mvp chants for earl the squirrel)

[DCZards]

raises hand, pleads guilty....yeah I know it wasn't really realistic. But from where we
were sitting, I'm pretty sure John heard it. That's what I think we were after. Just
a few shouts of appreciation.

But it wasn't meant to be funny. Just wanted him to know he's our guy.

Hey, I wasn't claiming about the chants when I said they were "funny." I was happy to join in. We need to show John some love, especially with the roll he's been on.